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Just went to see Narnia - But feel like i just got out of church

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Just went to see Narnia - But feel like i just got out of church

Old 12-09-05, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
I can't wait for next weeks thread about Kong.

"Just went to see King Kong - But feel like I just left a Furry convention"
or rather felt like you just came from a Bear Party.
Old 12-09-05, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Sierra Disc
"I just saw King Kong, and have to say it's not as good as the 1976 original."

I hope your joking ?
Old 12-09-05, 06:10 PM
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Sarcasm, eh?
Old 12-09-05, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Tygan
...C.S. Lewis is usually associated with Christianity. I believe at the time of writing the books, Lewis was not even Christian.
Not true. He was an atheist who I believe embraced religion after his experiences in World War I (I am recalling this from memory, so I may be wrong on this). Anyway, his whole purpose of the book was to celebrate his faith and explore the "True Mythology" (his words) in a fantasy setting.


Although, I could
Old 12-09-05, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. DVD
I am not too up to date on my C.S. Lewis, but is Narnia supposed to be an aged form of Eden? I noticed it was populated by animals mostly, and it also talks about the ancient laws/early days as if they were during creation/genesis.
Narnia isn't Eden per se. Actually, in The Magician's Nephew, Lewis shows how Narnia came into being and uses Eden as allegory to present his tale. However, the Narnia of The Lion The Witch and the Wardrobe is no longer Eden, but the fully-formed world.

Its actually a quite beautiful story, and my favorite of the series after TLTW&TW. Lewis was quite adroit at conjuring up imagery that stays with you long after you finish the book.
Old 12-09-05, 07:35 PM
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Personally, I have no problems with Christian allegory in movies. I'm not a Christian by any stretch of the word, though. But I think that the problem (and this is my opinion, I'm not singling out anyone or pointing fingers, especially not at the original poster).. but the problem with a lot of atheists is they get so hung up when religion is present in things. But likewise, the problem with (SOME) Christians is they have a problem when people around them don't believe in what they believe in. I work with someone who is Christian, and it bothers her greatly when she finds out people aren't Christian. She won't even help people find books in the occult and spirituality section. Personally, I feel like being so intolerant of people that aren't of the same faith is a sign of the weakness in said person's beliefs. They feel much better about them when they have a major consensus in their favor. But that's just my opinion.

By the way, I agree with the Lord of the Rings envy comment, earlier. I was reminded of LOTR as soon as I saw the trailer. It's the cinematography and look of the film, not necessarily the story. You know how it is... once a movie is successful in Hollywood, the clones come right after. I just think people got offended by the word "envy," and took it with its negative connotation.
Old 12-09-05, 07:44 PM
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I saw this thread, then went to Yahoo, and saw this:

http://www.yahoo.com/s/264561
Old 12-09-05, 07:47 PM
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Is it a kid movie?
Old 12-09-05, 08:31 PM
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I guess this is a little off topic but from what i've read about C.S. Lewis is that Tolkien is that what that brought him to Christianity. I haven't read the Narnia books but i've read Screwtape Letters and Mere Christianity, both favorites of mine. I'm looking forward to seeing the film though.
Old 12-09-05, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by riley_dude
or rather felt like you just came from a Bear Party.
wouldn't that be Brokeback Mountain?


Hi-ooooOOOOOOH!!! I'll be here all night, remember to tip the waitresses.
Old 12-09-05, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Tygan
You could also say that Frodo sacrificed himself for the sake of Middle Earth just like Jesus did.

You could also say that Gandalf sacrificed himself for the sake of the Fellowship and then returned just like Jesus did.

Basically both stories have themes of self-sacrifice...it's just that the church has latched onto Narnia because C.S. Lewis is usually associated with Christianity. I believe at the time of writing the books, Lewis was not even Christian.

Not to mention in other stories as well. ET, for example, makes a very strong Christ figure out of ET, and teaches lessons of good over evil and courage and sacrifice and love. Yet nobody complains about that movie in the same way they do Narnia. I guess just knowing the author was a Christian going in upsets some people.

Now I just hope somebody makes the Silent Planet movie trilogy.

Last edited by calhoun07; 12-09-05 at 11:07 PM.
Old 12-09-05, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
wouldn't that be Brokeback Mountain?


Hi-ooooOOOOOOH!!! I'll be here all night, remember to tip the waitresses.
That made no sense whatsoever.
Old 12-09-05, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by skiblet
It is merely a well polished and attractive propaganda tool, that makes no secret at all about its intentions to impose the authors religious views upon the viewer.
I'm a young Christian in the Reformed tradition, and something stressed in this school of thought is that nothing comes value-free. Any human creation is going to have some display of the values of those who created it. Granted, one creation's message will have been consciously thought out by the creators (like this movie) while others will bear a message solely as a result of the philosophical baggage that the creators--like everyone else--carry. Plus, different movies are going to manifest the creators' values more or less obviously, but then perhaps we should be grateful that TLtWatW is so open about it, so that if you are hostile to its message, you don't have to watch it in its entirety before being offended. Personally, I prefer movies where the writers'/directors' philosophies are implicit, so I can have something to chew on once the movie is over.
Old 12-09-05, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Grimfarrow
That made no sense whatsoever.

then you don't know anything about Big Bears.
Old 12-10-05, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by calhoun07
Not to mention in other stories as well. ET, for example, makes a very strong Christ figure out of ET, and teaches lessons of good over evil and courage and sacrifice and love. Yet nobody complains about that movie in the same way they do Narnia. I guess just knowing the author was a Christian going in upsets some people.
I was going to mention E.T. also. There are a million other movies with Christ symbolism as well (Fearless, The Matrix, Cool Hand Luke, Superman, the list goes on and on). Who complains about those? I think you have it pegged - if some people know going in that the author was Christian then they are just looking for something to get offended by.
Old 12-10-05, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by skiblet
The movie uses glaringly and overtly obvious paralells to christianity, so much that i wonder how many viewers will start to doubt the strength of C.S. Lewis' imagination and creativity (since the entire essence of the movie's moral delivery are a direct copycat of orthodox christianity).
I'm sure this will rock the foundations and everyone will stop reading the dozens of other books the man wrote...

I agree, that I think you had the movie pegged.

I'm glad that all of the overtones are there....i had worried they would cut them out to make it more P.C. Glad they left it alone.
Old 12-10-05, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by wewantflair
Just a note - the original publication of The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe is 1950. The original publication date of the Fellowship of the Ring is 1954. LOTR envy, indeed.
THE HOBBIT, the prelude, setup and unofficial fourth (first) entry in THE LORD OF THE RINGS saga, was written in 1937, so if we're gonna go for accuracy, let's go for accuracy. Frankly, as a non-theist, I really hope this film stays in a realm of moral allegory and doesn't cross into full-fledged propaganda...I'll be going into the theater this weekend with no small measure of trepidation...
Old 12-10-05, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by GrimTangent
I'm a young Christian in the Reformed tradition, and something stressed in this school of thought is that nothing comes value-free. Any human creation is going to have some display of the values of those who created it. Granted, one creation's message will have been consciously thought out by the creators (like this movie) while others will bear a message solely as a result of the philosophical baggage that the creators--like everyone else--carry. Plus, different movies are going to manifest the creators' values more or less obviously, but then perhaps we should be grateful that TLtWatW is so open about it, so that if you are hostile to its message, you don't have to watch it in its entirety before being offended. Personally, I prefer movies where the writers'/directors' philosophies are implicit, so I can have something to chew on once the movie is over.
Very well said. Just because an artist isn't communicating heavy philosophical/theological/political themes doesn't mean they're not communicating their own value system, either consciously or subconsciously.
Old 12-10-05, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by modfather
I guess I'm a little confused. I haven't seen the movie, but I don't understand why atheists or "non-christians" have a problem with this movie having undertones of religion in it. How many movie out there have these same kinds of references, either implicit or explicit? Just a few movies that have either religious or heavy-handed agendas:

Life and Death of David Gale
Matrix (all three)
Mystic River
Million Dollar Baby
All Quiet on the Western Front

There's thousands of movies that all "have an agenda" and even if we don't agree with those, we can still enjoy the movie, right? I think atheists (and I'm not religious - just to much work... are so easily offended - generally, anyway, at anything that "forces" religion on them. But couldn't a right-wing, conservative be pissed off that All Quiet on the Western Front is an anti-war film, or a jewish person would be angry at Mel Gibson for making Passion, etc? Don't get me wrong, I'm a nihlist, so I don't get pissed at anything. heheh.

Ah well...

I think you nailed it in one. By the same token, I believe you could be an atheist, or non-believer for ANY religion, and still read any relgious story like the Bible, or see any religious based movie and just enjoy it for the story. Wether you believed in what was being told in the story, or not, shouldn't take away form your expierencing it.

For instance, I quite enjoy movies like The Ten Commandments and Ben Hur - yet I'm not a Christian, Catholic, or Jewish. I just think they are well told stories, and can enjoy them at that level. My personal religious beliefs don't play into them at all.
Old 12-10-05, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Rocketdog2000
I think you nailed it in one. By the same token, I believe you could be an atheist, or non-believer for ANY religion, and still read any relgious story like the Bible, or see any religious based movie and just enjoy it for the story. Wether you believed in what was being told in the story, or not, shouldn't take away form your expierencing it.

For instance, I quite enjoy movies like The Ten Commandments and Ben Hur - yet I'm not a Christian, Catholic, or Jewish. I just think they are well told stories, and can enjoy them at that level. My personal religious beliefs don't play into them at all.
See, I can't hang with that approach--it's all about moral allegory vs. moral propaganda. The films you mention aren't just allegories, they are actual Christian stories, based on Christian dogma; well made though they unarguably are, they exist to further a Christian agenda, and they are rather wanton about it, which disquiets me as a non-Christian viewer and prevents me from gaining any enjoyment out of them outside of an appreciation of their technical filmmaking accomplishments. I fervently hope NARNIA takes a more abstract approach. If the film is informed by a Christian sensibility, I can roll with that (many of the morals Christians purport to believe in are shared by many non-theists and alternate-theists), but if it outright proselytizes to me, I'll be one thoroughly irritated, insulted and disappointed moviegoer.
Old 12-10-05, 03:23 PM
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Why, are you worried that you'll walk out of the film as a born-again Christian, against your will?
Old 12-10-05, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Numanoid
Why, are you worried that you'll walk out of the film as a born-again Christian, against your will?
Yeah, that makes about as much sense as Christian thinking they would walk out of Harry Potter a satanist!
Old 12-10-05, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Numanoid
Why, are you worried that you'll walk out of the film as a born-again Christian, against your will?
Not at all, I just don't relish the idea of having 2 hours of my life pissed away by worshippers of the great celestial Santa Claus...
Old 12-10-05, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Filmmaker
See, I can't hang with that approach--it's all about moral allegory vs. moral propaganda. The films you mention aren't just allegories, they are actual Christian stories, based on Christian dogma; well made though they unarguably are, they exist to further a Christian agenda, and they are rather wanton about it, which disquiets me as a non-Christian viewer and prevents me from gaining any enjoyment out of them outside of an appreciation of their technical filmmaking accomplishments. I fervently hope NARNIA takes a more abstract approach. If the film is informed by a Christian sensibility, I can roll with that (many of the morals Christians purport to believe in are shared by many non-theists and alternate-theists), but if it outright proselytizes to me, I'll be one thoroughly irritated, insulted and disappointed moviegoer.
Does that apply to all religious art or just film?
Old 12-10-05, 05:55 PM
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or rather felt like you just came from a Bear Party.
Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
wouldn't that be Brokeback Mountain?


Hi-ooooOOOOOOH!!! I'll be here all night, remember to tip the waitresses.

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