I agree, Will was a complete idiot for dumping Vince (Bobby Cannavale) ;)

Ditto.

Except change "Will and Grace" to Brokeback Mountain.

I've NEVER had a problem with people disliking me for what I am. In fact, I've changed more co-workers minds than any gay cowboy movie could ever hope to.

He didn't. It was the other way around.

And Vince is back this week. And Taye Diggs is back next week.

But according to this thread, it's much better to watch two whiney miserable self-loathing men for 2 hours. Yeah...THERE'S someone I want to have a lot in common with.

I actually agree with digitalfreaknyc. The fact that these two characters are gay, instead of any other forbidden love, has very little to do with the story. You could substitute almost any traditional conflict between social groups and tell basically the same story, which just makes it an interesting version of Romeo and Juliet.

What you didn't see in Brokeback Mountain, and perhaps this was what the film's major flaw was, is any sort of believable chemistry between Ennis and Jack. It just seems like they were watching the sheep, and then it was cold one night, so Jack invited Ennis into his tent, and the relationship began. I didn't buy any sort of love or emotion between them until it was forced by the director.

Can you give me an example of a "gay cowboy movie"? Because you clearly can't be talking about BBM, as that's not what it is, and not doubt many of your impressions come from that faulty basis.

Bingo. Nothing.

Well isn't that what Brokeback is being billed as? I don't think it is...because i'm not entirely sure either character is totally gay...nor did i see any love. The only thing I'm sure of is that...umm...it starred Heath and Jake and that's it.

I would say that it would be billed that by an ignorant person (which you aren't, I mean, well, shortsighted people)

I agree with you. As I said, I dont' think Ennis is, but I do think that Jack is.

It's a love story.

Honestly, I would rather sit and have a beer with Ennis than some pissy/bitchy flaming queen like Jack on "Will and Grace".

well I've never loved the "gay" men (who have wives and kids) I've slept around with.

I'd rather be alone, honestly. But to tell you the truth, those characters have devolved so much in the 8 seasons that it's been on the air that it's not an accurate comparison. I'd suggest we drop the comparison for the moment. Adam just brought it up to piss me off.

You do have terrible taste. You think Madonna can sing, for god's sake. As for the white flag, it is indeed a struggle for me to stay civil with you at times, and I apologize. But as long as you continue to attack the film and those who love it, I'll keep trying to defend it and them.

Hear hear! Although Karen would be fun too.:)

you two are getting out of hand...

It's not an ignorant person. You show me anyone who doesn't think of it, at its base, as the gay cowboy movie? Even the aforementioned Time article is talking about it being gay. If it's not that, then what is it? Just a love story? But unfortunately, we live in a society that can't sit and label it a love story. It IS (supposedly) a gay love story. If it were just another love story, there wouldn't have been a problem going wide from the beginning...and it probably wouldn't have had this much impact either.

No, to point out that your sense of what's good or bad for the gay community isn't exactly spot-on or infallible.

Show me an attack?

Thank you for judging my taste. Please point out exactly WHEN i judged yours?

I never said anyone who likes this film is shit.

And for the record, i never said Madonna is a great singer. Again, show me evidence.

Never said it was.

But remember, neither is yours.

Please stop attacking me. I never did the same to you.

you guys are gonna get the thread closed if this continues... come on... stop it, really... jeesh

Hey, hey, hey! I like Madonna and I have good taste (no plastic furniture here). Again, I find it unbelievable a few people in this thread don't recognize Brokeback Mountain as a love story. As I stated in a post long ago: the love story aspect is really just one component of this movie, but it's there.

I recognize the movie as a love story because the director forces us to do so. I DO NOT recognize the movie as a love story based on the initial (pre-sex) interactions of Jack and Ennis. I don't buy that there are any feelings between them at all until they are put into that situation by the script.

Ignorance doesn't mean stupidity, it's the condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed. In this case, anyone who can actually watch the movie (or read a critical review of it) and come away thinking "gay cowboy movie" would by definition be ignorant.

I think it's a testiment to people who have made the effort to see this film despite theater owners and cities making it difficult for them to do so. Every person I've talked to who has seen has seen in it PACKED theaters. It will probably win Oscars, and hopefully on its merits and not on its "controversy".

I mean no disrespect, but as a gay man, wouldn't you WANT this to be seen as a love story and NOT a "GAY love story"?

I have to agree with this. I didn't buy "love" until much later. And that gets me back to the pacing problem this movie has. Lee should have spent more time in the beginning showing us how these characters connected, rather than on the back end with repetitive reunions.

I was pretty shocked they got into it that quickly. Just goes back to my belief that Jack is most likely gay and Ennis was just drawn into the situation.

I like Madonna too but that's besides the point. As for the movie, I agree it's a love story even if Ennis isn't really fully aware of it - he (and Jack) marry and have kids because it's what's expected of them. Jack fosters more feeling for Ennis, even though his sexuality threatens and ultimately causes his downfall. He's more intune with what he wants even though Ennis can't and wont let him closer. The 'kiss' scene is the crux of the relationship and really kickswings the story towards its finale. It's the tragic conclusion that Ennis finally realizes that Jack certainly harboured more feelings towards him, than what he really expected. It's a story of unrealized feelings towards the same sex, situations that could have gone into different directions, missed opportunities, being truthful. For many of the characters it's true tragedy.

wow, you guys are a tough bunch of queers. I'd hate to get you all together in one room! I'm glad to see so much dialogue happening and so many different viewpoints.

Let's keep in mind that we are all in this together, and its basically still us fighting for every last inch society will give us to justify our right to exist in this world.

Brokeback Mountain (flawed or not) is just one more weapon in our favor and I'm confident it will only help just as Will & Grace did in its time.

Does anyone know when its scheduled to come out on DVD?