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-   -   Brokeback Mountain opening Dec. 9 (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/447442-brokeback-mountain-opening-dec-9-a.html)

Tracer Bullet 01-19-06 12:17 PM


Originally Posted by RockStrongo
Speaking of sex...

Spoiler:
Did any of you gay guys find the initial sex scene unbelievable? It happened a little too quick if you know what I mean. Just seemed unreal from my experience.

Spoiler:
Yeah, that just looked painful and kind of impossible.

LiquidSky 01-19-06 12:17 PM


Originally Posted by RockStrongo
Speaking of sex...

Spoiler:
Did any of you gay guys find the initial sex scene unbelievable? It happened a little too quick if you know what I mean. Just seemed unreal from my experience.

Spoiler:
I'm gay and have never experienced that actual sex act....however, it seemed to fit with being drunk, pent up feelings, and lust

RockStrongo 01-19-06 12:20 PM


Originally Posted by LiquidSky
Spoiler:
I'm gay and have never experienced that actual sex act....however, it seemed to fit with being drunk, pent up feelings, and lust

I guess being a cowboy wasn't the only reason Jake G walked bow-legged. ;)

digitalfreaknyc 01-19-06 12:21 PM

That scene came out of NOWHERE for me and the people that I was with. That's another problem that I had with the movie and thanks for mentioning it. Nowhere. No reason to believe that Heath's character would even be receptive to it. And it was ridiculously violent. Not to the point that it was unbelievable but it was a violence that, again, doesn't help "the cause."
And yes, Jake would've been ripped apart by that depending on how big Heath was but spit is fine depending on how loose Jake is. Something tells me, though, that he wasn't home hopping on a dildo every night.

Giles 01-19-06 12:23 PM


Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
Something tells me, though, that he wasn't home hopping on a dildo every night.

oh the images in my head.

RockStrongo 01-19-06 12:23 PM


Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
That scene came out of NOWHERE for me and the people that I was with. That's another problem that I had with the movie and thanks for mentioning it. Nowhere. No reason to believe that Heath's character would even be receptive to it. And it was ridiculously violent. Not to the point that it was unbelievable but it was a violence that, again, doesn't help "the cause."
And yes, Jake would've been ripped apart by that depending on how big Heath was but spit is fine depending on how loose Jake is. Something tells me, though, that he wasn't home hopping on a dildo every night.

Exactly...I dont remember him reaching down with a handful of spit....though I did see a small bottle of wet in the tent. ;)

Giles 01-19-06 12:25 PM


Originally Posted by RockStrongo
I dont remember him reaching down with a handful of spit....

I have to see this movie again, cause I swore that's how I remember the scene.

LiquidSky 01-19-06 12:27 PM


Originally Posted by Giles
oh the images in my head.

:lol: That is something I would not mind seeing Mr. Gyllenhaal do.

LiquidSky 01-19-06 12:28 PM


Originally Posted by Giles
I have to see this movie again, cause I swore that's how I remember the scene.

That's what he did.

RockStrongo 01-19-06 12:29 PM


Originally Posted by LiquidSky
:lol: That is something I would not mind seeing Mr. Gyllenhaal do.

I watched Jarhead this weekend....it was funny when he ran around in a g-string with the santa hat on. Hes definately put on some size in the past few years.

I wouldnt leave my girlfriend for him though. :p

LiquidSky 01-19-06 12:30 PM


Originally Posted by RockStrongo
I watched Jarhead this weekend....it was funny when he ran around in a g-string with the santa hat on. Hes definately put on some size in the past few years.

I wouldnt leave my girlfriend for him though. :p

I think he is: :drool:

RockStrongo 01-19-06 12:30 PM


Originally Posted by LiquidSky
That's what he did.

Maybe I just missed that...thats the only way I would buy that...I still think it was too violent. I think they would have eased into it a little more. You would think Jake was a sheep or something. ha.

digitalfreaknyc 01-19-06 12:31 PM


Originally Posted by LiquidSky
That's what he did.

Yup. didn't he spit in his hand?

I always see guys do that when they stroke their dicks at the gym. ;) Sometimes they'll just spit directly onto it. Natural lube...but I prefer the real deal.

And again...i'd just like to emphasize the pain he would probably have been in. He would've been screaming like a bitch if this were realistic. Unfortunately i don't think the boys rehearsed this off-screen in their trailers very much ;)

RockStrongo 01-19-06 12:32 PM


Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
Yup. didn't he spit in his hand?

I always see guys do that when they stroke their dicks at the gym. ;) Sometimes they'll just spit directly onto it. Natural lube...but I prefer the real deal.

At the gym? :confused:

RockStrongo 01-19-06 12:34 PM


Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
Unfortunately i don't think the boys rehearsed this off-screen in their trailers very much ;)

Yeah, Jake said he has repressed the kissing scenes.

Giles 01-19-06 12:40 PM


Originally Posted by RockStrongo
At the gym? :confused:

no the question here - which gyms? ;)

Tracer Bullet 01-19-06 12:41 PM


Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
Not to the point that it was unbelievable but it was a violence that, again, doesn't help "the cause."

:confused:

I don't get why this movie has to help "the cause"? Can't it just be a movie?

RockStrongo 01-19-06 12:42 PM


Originally Posted by Giles
no the question here - which gyms? ;)

My gym has a couple trolls in the lockerroom, but nothing like that. I have a friend who works for Bally's and he says they catch guys giving head in the sauna alot. They kick them out and revoke their memberships. Not worth it to me (not to mention that im not single).

RockStrongo 01-19-06 12:43 PM


Originally Posted by TracerBullet
:confused:

I don't get why this movie has to help "the cause"? Can't it just be a movie?

No, Hollywood is definately using this movie to advance a political message. I wish movies could just stand on their own. I really think this movie is winning based on politics alone. Just my opinion.

Tracer Bullet 01-19-06 12:47 PM


Originally Posted by RockStrongo
No, Hollywood is definately using this movie to advance a political message. I wish movies could just stand on their own. I really think this movie is winning based on politics alone. Just my opinion.

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If Hollywood wanted to push a gay rights (or whatever) message, they have the ability to do it much more often and with much more force than one movie that took years to get made. They really just want to make money.

What was the last big Hollywood "gay" movie? Philadelphia?

RockStrongo 01-19-06 12:53 PM


Originally Posted by TracerBullet
That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If Hollywood wanted to push a gay rights (or whatever) message, they have the ability to do it much more often and with much more force than one movie that took years to get made. They really just want to make money.

What was the last big Hollywood "gay" movie? Philadelphia?

Well, the subject matter alone is all you hear about. When I hear about this movie being discussed on tv, all we hear about is how its a gay love story.

Again, just my opinion, but I think if it didnt have anything to do with homosexuality (I know its hard to fathom given the story) then it wouldnt be as popular.

If it had been about race or so on, then it wouldnt be getting the accolades (and as discussed earlier, probably getting criticism).

Grimfarrow 01-19-06 12:59 PM

If Crash hadn't been about race, then it wouldn't have gotten all of its (underserved) accolades.

RockStrongo 01-19-06 01:07 PM


Originally Posted by Grimfarrow
If Crash hadn't been about race, then it wouldn't have gotten all of its (underserved) accolades.

I dont know about that. BUT, I think Crash IS trying to send a message.

Whereas I think Brokeback Mountain actually does a disservice to gays and their lifestyle. I think it shows them as weak, negligent and driven by lust.

Again, like I said before, if this movie had been about the 2 ranchers who sacrificed and lived their life the way they wanted to, it would have been a good political message (like Philadelphia).

Grimfarrow 01-19-06 01:09 PM

CRASH sends a much worse message than BROKEBACK. It says that Whites and Black can be as bigoted as they want, as long as they have some kind of idiotic epiphany that somehow clears them all of their previous sins. Oh, and Asians are screaming, insane slave traders or are poor, helpless refugees. F*** off Paul Haggis.

RockStrongo 01-19-06 01:18 PM


Originally Posted by Grimfarrow
CRASH sends a much worse message than BROKEBACK. It says that Whites and Black can be as bigoted as they want, as long as they have some kind of idiotic epiphany that somehow clears them all of their previous sins. Oh, and Asians are screaming, insane slave traders or are poor, helpless refugees. F*** off Paul Haggis.

Hmm....you got a different message than I did.

Ill rewatch it soon and see if I can see what your saying. But, my initial reaction was that its message was that everyone stereotypes and it isnt based just on race. And, that its still a struggle today that we all face.

joeblow69 01-19-06 01:18 PM


Originally Posted by RockStrongo
Again, like I said before, if this movie had been about the 2 ranchers who sacrificed and lived their life the way they wanted to, it would have been a good political message (like Philadelphia).

But that really wouldn't have been realistic for the 60s would it have been? I mean, it's easy to suggest they should have done that NOW, but back then, I doubt it was even an option.

I know a bunch of gay guys in their 40s, and the vast majority of them are divorced with children. They knew they were gay, but got married and had kids because back then, that was what was expected of them. Eventually, they couldn't live that way anymore, and the inevitable divorce followed. This movie/book is probably just a reflection of that.

Tracer Bullet 01-19-06 01:38 PM


Originally Posted by RockStrongo
I dont know about that. BUT, I think Crash IS trying to send a message.

Whereas I think Brokeback Mountain actually does a disservice to gays and their lifestyle. I think it shows them as weak, negligent and driven by lust.

Again, like I said before, if this movie had been about the 2 ranchers who sacrificed and lived their life the way they wanted to, it would have been a good political message (like Philadelphia).

How about we just let gay characters act like real, flawed human beings, and let people draw their own conclusions?

I'll take a movie like Brokeback Mountain over the infanticized gay people in Philadelphia. The only reason that movie was so successful was strictly because it wore its political message on its sleeve; it allowed straight people to feel good about feeling bad about Tom Hanks' character dying of AIDS.

Giles 01-19-06 01:45 PM

someone should either rerelease

Song of the Loon

in the theatre or on DVD for that matter

LiquidSky 01-19-06 02:02 PM


Originally Posted by TracerBullet
How about we just let gay characters act like real, flawed human beings, and let people draw their own conclusions?

:thumbsup:

Tracer Bullet 01-19-06 02:30 PM

IMO, this is a pretty good take on the film:

http://www.musingson.com/brokeback.html


Brokeback Mountain
Hollywood Finally Gets It Right

Last summer when I got wind of the upcoming gay pride parade in West Hollywood, it crossed my mind to make the 20 minute drive south to see what it was all about. Yet afterward when I heard that they had brought in Paris Hilton as a last minute grand marshall, any traces of regret I might have had for missing it instantly evaporated. Likewise I gave up watching "Will and Grace" about three seasons in when they started parading in a line of guest celebrities on a regular basis. To me it was a sign that from now on the show was going to be more about patronizing gays than clever writing. Apparently Hollywood thinks that associating with gays and lesbians is about image. It's mainly about looking cool and hip. And the gay community, seizing the opportunity for glamorous publicity, can hardly resist entering into a deal with Hollywood where they are ultimately being more used than understood.

But what I find most annoying is this: It has been five years since I started this website, and after a lot of clumsiness on my part and a lot of patience on theirs, currently almost half of my friends are gay. Yet there is nothing about what I've learned over the years about my friends' lives that even remotely relates to why Paris Hilton ought to be grand marshall of a pride parade, or why anyone ought to be enamored with Cher. What, I wonder, does any of this showy ridiculousness have to do with the reality that I see every day in the lives of these people that I care about?

The reality of being gay, I assure you, has nothing to do with a pink feather boa. It has been about seeing courage and quiet suffering, and identifying with faith and struggle and pain that has drawn me into people's lives. And it's not like you can just come roaring up to people in your minivan with your marriage, your three kids, and your Bible and expect them to bare their souls to you. These things are revealed in layers and only over time. You have to hang out, build trust, listen, consider, doubt, put your foot in your mouth, search your own soul, and then maybe, just maybe, your heterosexual brain might establish a fuzzy idea of what it is like to live as a gay person in an ignorant and unforgiving world.

There is so much to be told, and so few words adequate to describe it. It is the kind of thing that I have often wished I had an artistic medium such as literature or film to point my straight friends to whenever they come up to me looking for guidance and an explanation. Something I have been certain Hollywood would fail to provide.

Until now. It took a Taiwan-born director possessing an outsider's keen insight into American culture to finally get it right. Brokeback Mountain is a movie long overdue, because for once it is about the kind of people who more closely resemble the homosexuals I know, and tells the truth about their lives. Guys who act like guys, raised in conservative communities with traditional values, who if you asked them whether they chose to be homosexual would snappishly answer, "Why in the hell would I choose it?" or, "What the hell kind of question is that?"

The story is presented largely from the perspective of Ennis Del Mar, played by Heath Ledger in a performance that will be etched in my memory for quite some time. Gruff, stoic, reticent, he's the last guy on the prairie you'd suspect of being gay. His sudden, passionate response to sheepherding partner Jack Twist (Jake Gyllenhaal) as they shared a tent one cold night on Brokeback Mountain seems to come out of nowhere. It may not be the hole in the script that some reviewers think it is. The point is that no one sees it coming, not the audience and least of all Ennis himself. And if passion was strong that night, the ensuing shame that takes hold of Ennis the next morning becomes an equally formidable force.

As if to heap further damnation on their souls, Ennis' and Jack's summer-long affair results in the neglect and loss of some of the sheep and falling into disfavor with their employer. It is as if guilt inevitably intrudes into their secret paradise and finds them out. Then when the summer finally draws to a close and they must leave Brokeback Mountain and each other, you can see Ennis hardening himself for the grim reality of the rest of his life. Whatever feelings he has for Jack he must now bring into subjection with an iron fist. He must steer himself with a steady hand into an emotionally bleak future, and try to forget his soul had ever known the vivid colors of bliss. His plans to marry his fiancée Alma (Michelle Williams) remain as fixed as his jaw and as inevitable as death. He mentions them to Jack with the casual acceptance of talking about the weather. It's coming, it's a fact, and there's not much more to it than that.

Funny how whenever a discussion about homosexuality erupts among evangelical Christians, there's always somebody who wants to put forward the bright idea that the best solution is for a man to get married and keep having sex with his wife until he becomes a true hetero convert. Maybe one reason why I don't see a host of female volunteers lining up to administer "the cure" has to do with the slow pain you see inflicted upon the wives of Ennis and Jack during the years of their respective marriages. Alma looks like she is perpetually cycling through the Five Stages of Grief. Jack's wife Lureen (Anne Hathaway) becomes increasingly shallow, bleached and plastic. Encouraging gay men to "work toward the goal of heterosexual marriage" may sound like harmless, biblical advice when dispensed across the mahogany desk in a pastor's well-vacuumed office, or printed on crisp, white sheets from the "Recommendations of the Committee to Study the Issue of Homosexuality" report handed out by your church denomination. But it is in fact quite disastrous when played out in the real lives of actual human beings.

Yet the beauty of this story is that nobody preaches or bullies Ennis into any of it. What is expected of him as an adult male living in 1963 Wyoming, he expects of himself, and he hardly knows otherwise. Anyone who has been raised with religious or traditional values understands immediately what Ennis is all about. You recognize something of yourself in him. Marriage and family, church and community have always been in the air you breathe, their rhythms and traditions imparting the values and expectations you've known since earliest memory. Ennis would gladly take his place in the current and ride easily along, if it did not set him on a collision course with his own human needs. If there's anyone who might be able to endure the barrenness of a life devoid of any meaningful love and emotional connection, you figure it would be Ennis. The problem is, once he does experience that connection with Jack, it is for him like breathing oxygen for the first time. The agony of having to part from Jack, and his subsequent inability to find satisfaction in his marriage to Alma, however devoted a wife she is, only intensifies his suffocation.

For the most part, were it not for the number of empty beer bottles and cigarette butts littered around him, there would be little indication that Ennis feels anything at all. He seems to have a grip, weathering his life as if he were squinting into a dust storm. He does not invite pity. He does not even seem to pity himself. No wonder then, when Ennis finally has a chance to meet up with Jack again for the first time in four years, you are hardly prepared to witness the desperation that overcomes him. The loss of control. The frantic activity. The impulsive flight from home. Only then does it dawn on you what he is suffering inside, and how much it must be costing him to keep it so thoroughly submerged.

Even a guy like Ennis can't stay submerged forever, so he allows himself to come up for air twice a year. His biannual "fishing trips" with Jack become the routine of his life. But in spite of his determined efforts to hang onto a normal life, while indulging in only the bare minimum of what can sustain him emotionally and sexually on the side, he ends up hurting everyone around him. No one is happy, least of all himself, and things begin to unravel. Caught between his adamant refusal to live openly as "queer" and his fundamental need for Jack, he is never able to give himself fully to anyone. For him there is no peace, no rest, and no safety anywhere. Nor does he believe that there are any answers. Deeply shuttered within himself, he only knows that whatever his rage, whatever his pain and loneliness, he must simply endure. The few times you do see his granite-like exterior crack and anguish and emotion pour out, it is almost too heart-wrenching to watch. You wish there was something that could be done to give him relief from his daily crucible. But in view of his situation and knowing Ennis himself, you come up empty, and all you can do is watch and suffer with him.

Some evangelicals are condemning Brokeback Mountain for "approving" of homosexuality. Strange accusation, since there is no one in the movie who actually does approve of homosexuality. The cast of characters are all traditional, family-values people who are deeply uncomfortable if not outright hostile to the idea of men falling in love with men. And the men who are doing the falling in love are the same guys you are likely to see standing in line in front of you on Election Day to vote Republican, or maybe even to vote in favor of the state measure seeking to ban same-sex marriage from legal recognition. I've known a few of those types myself.

Brokeback Mountain doesn't ask us to approve of homosexuality. But it does ask us to face up to the truth of what homosexuality is and how profoundly it impacts the person who finds him- or herself so afflicted. Most importantly, it raises the question of whether we who don't approve of it as morally right shouldn't feel more compassion toward friends, family members and neighbors who find themselves in that painful dilemma through no fault of their own. After all, the crux of their pain lies in the very fact that they don't approve of it either. And they can appreciate all too well what parents, fellow church members or hunting buddies might think if they were to find out, because it would be the same horrified reaction as their own, and they are quite frankly scared to death.

Such a person would never dream of asking for your "approval." But it would do them a world of good if people were simply to have a heart, invite them for coffee, assure them the door is always open, and give some indication they aren't interested in humiliating them or rounding up their friends to beat the stuffing out of them in a back alley. It is not much to ask, and doesn't cost much to give either.

Posted on January 9, 2006
MusingsOn.com
© 2006 by Misty S. Irons

RockStrongo 01-19-06 03:13 PM


Originally Posted by joeblow69
But that really wouldn't have been realistic for the 60s would it have been?

Exactly my point. But, in the movie,
Spoiler:
they talk about a couple ranchers that did go against the grain and live their life together.


I understand that this movie is supposedly more "realistic", but like I said earlier, I feel like hollywood is pushing this movie with a political objective (which I dont think they should).

RockStrongo 01-19-06 03:18 PM


Originally Posted by TracerBullet
How about we just let gay characters act like real, flawed human beings, and let people draw their own conclusions?

Yep, and I have no problems with this.

Ultimately though, this is why I didnt like the movie (my own conclusion) because I didnt like the characters (mainly Ennis). I didnt have sympathy for him and couldnt connect.

Mainly, I feel pressure from people (some that I know) "if you dont like brokeback mountain, then you dont support gays". I think hollywood is like this to right now. Just look at how Nathan Lane was criticized for his comments about the movie. Its ridiculous.

Tracer Bullet 01-19-06 03:19 PM


Originally Posted by RockStrongo
Exactly my point. But, in the movie,
Spoiler:
they talk about a couple ranchers that did go against the grain and live their life together.


I understand that this movie is supposedly more "realistic", but like I said earlier, I feel like hollywood is pushing this movie with a political objective (which I dont think they should).

I'm still not getting your argument that Hollywood is "pushing" this film with a poltical objective. Is it simply that any movie with homosexuality as a theme that plays in Overland Park, Kansas is automatically political? If anything, the politization of this movie is being driven by media hype, not Hollywood.

scott shelton 01-19-06 03:24 PM


Originally Posted by Grimfarrow
CRASH sends a much worse message than BROKEBACK. It says that Whites and Black can be as bigoted as they want, as long as they have some kind of idiotic epiphany that somehow clears them all of their previous sins. Oh, and Asians are screaming, insane slave traders or are poor, helpless refugees. F*** off Paul Haggis.

And people ask you to review movies for them?

Scary.

Grimfarrow 01-19-06 03:25 PM

No - people ask me to program film festivals for them. Have YOU met Paul Haggis?

At least critics I know and respect have similarly good taste. Just go read Scott Foundas' article about Crash.

LiquidSky 01-19-06 03:57 PM


Originally Posted by RockStrongo
Yep, and I have no problems with this.

Ultimately though, this is why I didnt like the movie (my own conclusion) because I didnt like the characters (mainly Ennis). I didnt have sympathy for him and couldnt connect.

Mainly, I feel pressure from people (some that I know) "if you dont like brokeback mountain, then you dont support gays". I think hollywood is like this to right now. Just look at how Nathan Lane was criticized for his comments about the movie. Its ridiculous.

Personally, I find Nathan Lane annoying as hell. That said, I would not think you are "against gays" for not liking the film. You have your reasons for not liking the film and they are not because the characters are gay.

Just because something is gay and I am gay too does not mean I'm going to like it. I don't watch Will and Grace, I don't own any Rufus Wainwright, Melissa Etheridge, Elton John, or k.d. Lang CDs (just not my type of music).

digitalfreaknyc 01-19-06 04:00 PM


Originally Posted by RockStrongo
I dont know about that. BUT, I think Crash IS trying to send a message.

Whereas I think Brokeback Mountain actually does a disservice to gays and their lifestyle. I think it shows them as weak, negligent and driven by lust.

Again, like I said before, if this movie had been about the 2 ranchers who sacrificed and lived their life the way they wanted to, it would have been a good political message (like Philadelphia).

:up:

digitalfreaknyc 01-19-06 04:04 PM


Originally Posted by LiquidSky
Personally, I find Nathan Lane annoying as hell. That said, I would not think you are "against gays" for not liking the film. You have your reasons for not liking the film and they are not because the characters are gay.

Just because something is gay and I am gay too does not mean I'm going to like it. I don't watch Will and Grace, I don't own any Rufus Wainwright, Melissa Etheridge, Elton John, or k.d. Lang CDs (just not my type of music).

yeah but it seems like, with THIS movie, if you don't like it and you're str8, then you have a problem with gay people. If you dont' like it and you're gay, you're not supporting "the movement." Like it or not, or want to admit it or not, this is a huge deal for gay people. After seeing the movie, I'm not really sure why and again, agree with Rock that it does gay people a disservice but apparently people are so blinded by the movie that they've just decided that everyone should support it regardless of it's massive flaws.

Oh...and before Tracer gets bitchy, it's not a fact. It's just my opinion and experience.

scott shelton 01-19-06 04:26 PM


Originally Posted by Grimfarrow
Have YOU met Paul Haggis?

At least critics I know and respect have similarly good taste.

Actually yes. Recently too.

And I disagree that you have good taste.

RockStrongo 01-19-06 04:34 PM

Im going to watch Capote and The Matador this weekend.

I might even give Brokeback another watch just because I want to see if there are things that I didnt catch.

Ive already paid my ticket, so ill just dl the screener for another viewing. That way I can pause it when i get bored. ;)

Ive noticed that sometimes I like slower paced movies when watching at home instead of at the theater.


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