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Watching 'A New Hope' straight after ROTS

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Watching 'A New Hope' straight after ROTS

Old 05-28-05, 09:13 PM
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Watching 'A New Hope' straight after ROTS

What do you notice/experience watching a New Hope straight after watching ROTS ?

When Ben Kenobi saves Luke from the Sand people at the beginning, the way he goes on about not hearing the name Obiwan for such a long time seems too unbelievable now.

a) He says before Luke was born, well actually it was at least upto when Luke was born

b) if he was learning the ghost stuff from Yoda/Qui Jon, there is no reason why Qui Jon/Yoda would not still be calling him ObiWan, gonna think that this training lasted at least 5 years

c) Ben/Obiwan doesn't recognise R2D2 ! After their adventures together, that seems unbelievable
Old 05-28-05, 09:38 PM
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There's always going to be these little discrepancies, because...once again...

Lucas has been pulling this stuff out of his ass as he goes along.

He made the "mistake" of making episodes 4-6 first, and when it came time to tell an interesting, bankable back-story, I think he realized full well there would be loose ends he couldn't tie up. Why? Because you just can't go back in time and change what you've already done. He would have had to film about another hour of footage to explain all these little things that keep coming up.
Old 05-28-05, 10:07 PM
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It's very simple. Obi Wan was lying. He's a Jedi, not a vulcan.

Besides, what do you want? Do you want him to tell Luke the entire story of Episodes 1-3?
Old 05-28-05, 10:22 PM
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When Ben Kenobi saves Luke from the Sand people at the beginning, the way he goes on about not hearing the name Obiwan for such a long time seems too unbelievable now.
Well, since it is 2 decades between ROTS and ANH, it makes complete sense.

if he was learning the ghost stuff from Yoda/Qui Jon, there is no reason why Qui Jon/Yoda would not still be calling him ObiWan, gonna think that this training lasted at least 5 years
Does miniscule stuff like this really matter at the end of the day?



Ben/Obiwan doesn't recognise R2D2 ! After their adventures together, that seems unbelievable
Obi-Wan didn't say he doesn't recognize R2D2. He clearly says in a sly way and a concerned look on his face, "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."
Old 05-28-05, 10:34 PM
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During the Vader/Kenobi lighsaber duel on the Death Star, Kenobi calles Vader "Darth" like it's his first name. I don't think Lucas had decided that "Darth" was a title by that point. It would have been more logical for Kenobi to call him Anakin.

Also, it seemed odd that Darth Vader appeared to be a henchman for Grand Moff Tarkin. Given Vader's close relationship to Palpatine/Sidious, it should have been the other way around.

The lightsaber duels were pathetically inept by prequel standards, when they started using real martial artists to choreograph them. It seemed like Vader and Kenobi were old men who could barely lift their lightsabers. Compared to the duel on Mustafar, the duel on the Death Star was a joke.

Still, it was fun to watch A New Hope just after seeing RotS. While there were many discrepancies due to the fact that Lucas hadn't figured out the whole story yet, it made sense generally.

Last edited by Bandoman; 05-28-05 at 10:49 PM.
Old 05-28-05, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Terrell





Obi-Wan didn't say he doesn't recognize R2D2. He clearly says in a sly way and a concerned look on his face, "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid."

Can we have this pasted at the top of the SW forum? It's seriously starting to affect my blood pressure.


As for the bit where he calls him "Darth" as if it's name, I prefer to think of it as him mocking his new name, and what he stands for.
Old 05-28-05, 10:46 PM
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Also, through most of ROTS, wasn't Obi Wan's droid R4, not R2?
Old 05-28-05, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Bandoman
During the Vader/Kenobi lighsaber duel on the Death Star, Kenobi calles Vader "Darth" like it's his first name. I don't think Lucas had decided that "Darth" was a title by that point. It would have been more logical for Kenobi to call him Anakin.
Not necessarily. If "Darth" is a title, then Obi-Wan calling Vader by that would have been like calling him "General" or "Captain" or something like that.
If Obi-Wan knew that Anakin was "dead", he wouldn't have referred to him by a dead name...although, it would have been a great way to piss Vader off, like milo said above.

You can also look at it from Lucas' standpoint. If he had enough of this planned out ahead of time, he obviously didn't want it revealed to the audience yet that Darth is really Anakin, and Luke's father.
Old 05-28-05, 11:14 PM
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Okay, that makes more sense now. Thanks milo and Infidel.
Old 05-28-05, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Original Desmond
What do you notice/experience watching a New Hope straight after watching ROTS ?
That it looks and feels completely different.

I think Lucas would've made it easier on himself if he made less connections to the originals. Edited tighter, only essential OT characters, not showing the armored Vader, etc.
Old 05-28-05, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Original Desmond
c) Ben/Obiwan doesn't recognise R2D2 ! After their adventures together, that seems unbelievable
I refuse to ever address this issue again.
Old 05-28-05, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Artman
That it looks and feels completely different.
I somewhat disagree. I think that although it feels a bit different, it also feels somewhat natural. It certainly looks different though. I think it is a nice follow up actually. ROTS is very emotional, and ANH is incredibly fun. Which is very welcome.

What I really liked about watching ANH again was that it wasn't the film I memorized and knew so well. I watched it in such a different light, and it was very enjoyable. I thought it matched up very well, and was just so cool to see what has happened to these characters and the world. There were many new insights and meanings.
Old 05-29-05, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Drop
I somewhat disagree. I think that although it feels a bit different, it also feels somewhat natural. It certainly looks different though. I think it is a nice follow up actually. ROTS is very emotional, and ANH is incredibly fun. Which is very welcome.
Yeah I was thinking mostly about the style/effects. I wish the prequels looked and felt more old fashioned. I understand the ships/technology are supposed to look new and shiny, but the way in which the new and shiny are presented is what I'm talking about...the editing, the framing, etc..
Old 05-29-05, 02:01 AM
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He simply said he doesn't remember owning a droid. AFAIK he never owned R2. Also, Obi Wan never had any attachment to R2 in ep 1-3. If anything Anakin did, not Obi Wan.

As for Obi Wan's name, there were 20 years between 3 and 4. So "before you were born" is fairly accurate.

I agree the light saber duel in ANH is pretty lame. But I guess Obi Wan had no desire to win and Vader was just toying with him.
Old 05-29-05, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Original Desmond
When Ben Kenobi saves Luke from the Sand people at the beginning, the way he goes on about not hearing the name Obiwan for such a long time seems too unbelievable now.

a) He says before Luke was born, well actually it was at least upto when Luke was born
When I was under 30 I think I would have found it ridiculous that Obi-wan doesn't remember more accurately when he stopped going by Obi-wan and that he didn't show more recognition of R2D2. But now I have a hard time remembering what I had for dinner last night, let alone what happened 5, 10 or 20 years ago. Even huge life-changing events like graduation, proposing to my wife, my wedding, the birth or my children are now vague blurs. I can fish up some details, but I have really stop and think. I can pull out broad, vague, partly accurate memories like "before you were born" without a lot of thought, but the memory definitely falters with age...
Old 05-29-05, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Bandoman
Also, it seemed odd that Darth Vader appeared to be a henchman for Grand Moff Tarkin. Given Vader's close relationship to Palpatine/Sidious, it should have been the other way around.
My take on this is once all of the Jedi are wiped out, Vader does not really have a lot to do. The Emperor needs minds, not really muscle to keep things in line. Enter Tarkin, who is probably a brilliant military tactician, not Mr. Emotional, Anakin/Vader's fortay.
Old 05-29-05, 03:08 PM
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First of all I must say I have watched new hope twice right after seeing Sith in the theater, and the connection is so much better than I ever thought.

As far as the points made in here. I agree the not hearing the name in along time did strike me, its not terrible, he probably hasn't heard it since just after Luke was born. The R2 comment had a completely new effect, of course it couldn't have been planned, but Ben looks like he is not telling Luke the truth. So he says I don't remember owning a droid, which of course is true. He hasn't heard the message yet, he is still protecting Luke.

The lightsaber battles are so much better in the prequels, but it makes sense because they are well trained. The final duel in Return of the Jedi is much better. The worst is Ben Vader in New Hope. But I like the explanation below, Ben intends to be selfless and join QuiGon in the force, and Vader could be toying with him. However, the line Ben says about becoming more poweful, is so much better now, actually all the dialog in that scene has so much more meaning
Old 05-29-05, 04:41 PM
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I don't get why people think it's weird he says it's been a long time since he's heard that name? It HAS been a long time..20 years or so isn't a long time?

Light sabre duels.. Obi Wan is old and out of practice or just not trying. Vader while very powerful in the force physically is totally screwed so probably can't move very well so wouldn't be a good 'swordsman' because of physical limitations maybe.
Old 05-29-05, 05:19 PM
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I just finished watching the original trilogy, and at the end of RofJ when Luke cut Vader's hand off I half expected Vader to say "Oh shit! Not again!"

Last edited by Bandoman; 05-29-05 at 05:23 PM.
Old 05-29-05, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Bandoman
I just finished watching the original trilogy, and at the end of RofJ when Luke cut Vader's hand off I half expected Vader to say "Oh shit! Not again!"
Yeah, and what's with Vader moaning in pain after that? Do robot arms hurt?
Old 05-29-05, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by The_Infidel
Yeah, and what's with Vader moaning in pain after that? Do robot arms hurt?

Well yeah they do, when Luke got his new hand it was being tested for feeling by sticking a needle in it, he wasn't just shrugging it off.
Old 05-29-05, 06:53 PM
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It was pretty cool when Obi Wan said, "Annie was a good friend." I always thought he was saying, "And he was a good friend." R2D2 probably looked like a million other droids anyway.
Old 05-29-05, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Bandoman

The lightsaber duels were pathetically inept by prequel standards, when they started using real martial artists to choreograph them. It seemed like Vader and Kenobi were old men who could barely lift their lightsabers. Compared to the duel on Mustafar, the duel on the Death Star was a joke.
Well, it wasn't that they "seemed" like old men; they actually were. I'm sure the twenty or so years between ep 3 and 4 would surely have slowed them down.
Old 05-29-05, 08:09 PM
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Thinking about it again, my favorite moment in ANH after watching ROTS, is when Obi-Wan hears the message from Leia. It's like everything comes rushing back to him. He sees Leia looks at R2, and everything falls into place. A very awesome moment.
Old 05-29-05, 10:46 PM
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Which if course makes you wonder...is it really there, or is it that you're wanting to see it? I haven't rewatched it myself, I think I'll do that tonight. I seriously doubt Lucas was directing people to act that way, especially if you consider how hands off he is with directing actors. Nevermind the fact that no one, including him, really knew the story up to that point. So if it really is there, it's a tribute to the sublties of Guiness's performance that he was able to "read between the lines" in the script and apply the proper emotion and body langauge.

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