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-   -   Droids cartoon series no longer canon? (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/424404-droids-cartoon-series-no-longer-canon.html)

Class316 05-27-05 01:07 PM

Droids cartoon series no longer canon?
 
That series supposedly took place in the 20 year time gap between ep 3 and 4. Since The droids basically start out in ep 4 with the same group of people they ended up with in ep 3 does that make the cartoon series non-canon?

Brain Stew 05-27-05 01:20 PM

I don't think it was ever canon.

Groucho 05-27-05 01:23 PM

For me, only the six feature films are canon. Nothing else.

bboisvert 05-27-05 01:28 PM

The cartoon series never was canon.

The only thing that is canon are the films. Everything else is just fun stuff that other people made up, whether or not they try to keep continuity.

Class316 05-27-05 01:46 PM


Originally Posted by bboisvert
The cartoon series never was canon.

The only thing that is canon are the films. Everything else is just fun stuff that other people made up, whether or not they try to keep continuity.

The Clone Wars cartoons are as canon as can be. The scolls of ROTS describes the events of the cartoon. The Holiday Special also has a strong case for canon.

Also, Lucas once said that anything "on tv" is the highest form of canon.

Terrell 05-27-05 02:12 PM


The Holiday Special also has a strong case for canon.
Um, no way! Lucas would burn every copy of it if he could get his hand on them. The films are canon, period. Everything else is not. That's been the official line for decades. But I get into an argument whenever I post about this subject. But if you want to consider it canon, go right ahead. It's officially part of EU.

Class316 05-27-05 02:28 PM


Originally Posted by Terrell
Um, no way! Lucas would burn every copy of it if he could get his hand on them. The films are canon, period. Everything else is not. That's been the official line for decades. But I get into an argument whenever I post about this subject. But if you want to consider it canon, go right ahead. It's officially part of EU.

Lucas still made the Holiday Special. He hates it because itís bad but does that make it any less canon?

Also, AFAIK itís never been the ďofficialĒ line that everything outside the 6 films isnít canon. When did George Lucas ever say ďeverything outside the movies is not canon at allĒ.

And as I stated itís difficult to argue that the clone wars cartoons arenít canon.

The Infidel 05-27-05 02:56 PM

I'm sorry to be any of the following: dumb, naive, uninformed...

but what in the heck is "canon"?

Michael Corvin 05-27-05 03:35 PM


Originally Posted by The_Infidel
I'm sorry to be any of the following: dumb, naive, uninformed...

but what in the heck is "canon"?

It is a dumb way for geeks to differentiate (i.e. fight over) what came directly from the brain of George Lucas and what did not.

I myself find it quite silly, and the ones that always bring it up are usually pretty anal about it.


Originally Posted by bboisvert
The only thing that is canon are the films. Everything else is just fun stuff that other people made up, whether or not they try to keep continuity.

So since GL didn't direct or technically write ESB or ROTJ are they not canon? Someone else basically made them up.

That is why I think most "canon" talk is hogwash.

Jackskeleton 05-27-05 03:49 PM

we're not going to go through this shit again, are we?

First, lets explain Canon to those new. Canon means anything that really happens. Stuff that is non-canon is pretty much a glorified fan fiction. Anything Canon means that it is specificlly pointed out as really happening in the star wars universe and so on.


"As George Lucas says, the movies are Gospel, and everything else is Gossip".

-1980 Fantastic Films magazine
Now this is going to get messy. Back then there wasn't much to really worry about. Sure a book here and a game board there. Nothing like we have today. So we take that quote and apply it to those years. Anything not in the three films back then was just random crap. This includes the Holiday Special.

Now the shit really hit the fan in the early 90's. that's when a lot of Expanded Universe stuff started flying out of the wood work. In 94, when the Star Wars Insider finally touched on this, this is what was said about it



"'Gospel', or canon as we refer to it, includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelisations. These works spin out of George Lucas' original stories, the rest are written by other writers. However, between us, we've read everything, and much of it is taken into account in the overall continuity. The entire catalog of published works comprises a vast history -- with many off-shoots, variations and tangents -- like any other well-developed mythology."

-Allan Kausch
Lucas Licensing

-Sue Rostoni
LL Publishing editor
So you can see how things get messy. Even more so when fans took this Lucas quote from the republication of Splinter of the mind's eye to literal


After Star Wars was released, it became apparent that my story- however many films it took to tell- was only one of thousands that could be told about the characters who inhabit its galaxy. But these were not stories that I was destined to tell. Instead they would spring from the imagination of other writers, inspired by the glimpse of a galaxy that Star Wars provided. Today it is an amazing, if unexpected, legacy of Star Wars that so many gifted writers are contributing new stories to the Saga. This legacy began with Splinter of the Mind's Eye, published less than a year after the release of Star Wars. Written by Alan Dean Foster, a well known and talented science-fiction author, Splinter was promoted as "further adventure" of Luke Skywalker. It hit bookstores just as I was preparing to write my own "further adventure" of Luke, in the form of a script called The Empire Strikes Back.

-Lucas
they took it to mean that it was part of the saga instead lucas was refering to it being simply a project INSPIRED by Lucas' saga. Hell in a 1999 interview he even said this about the books


"I don't even read the offshoot books that come out based on Star Wars" . . .

-Lucas
Goes to show how much he cares about the lucas stamp of approval. Lucas ignored Splinter and made his films the way he wanted for ESB which contridicted a lot of that book. So clearly that book was not canon, but was just EU material that he didn't even bother to read or care about.

It then got all shit stormed confusing when the Publisher started trying to make everything not contridict itself and flow together and ended up having so many different levels of Canon that it's hard to keep up with.

As of now here is the front lines. The most solid canon items are "the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelisations(film novels)"

So where does that leave us? Well with this

The actual level of Lucas's involvement is important in pondering the issue. After all, Lucas himself stated in 1999, "I don't even read the offshoot books that come out based on Star Wars." He's also said that ""Star Wars" has had a lot of different lives that have been worked on by a lot of different people. It works without me." And in 2001, he said "I donít get too involved" in the EU.
So in this case, Droids wasn't directly hands on by Lucas to my knowledge. Clone Wars on the other hand was a direct baby of Lucas.. Well as much as a baby as one can be. You know how the guy directs pretty much had a direct hand with Genndy tartakovsky in making that to be a direct lead into Episode III. So I would most certainly level Clone Wars as Canon by the level of involvement in it's production by Lucas.

it gets even messier with the other novels. Some of them have some involvement in the primary stages from lucas and he does over see who can and can not get killed. Especially for the New Jedi Order. But he didn't green light Chewie getting killed. That was a case of chewie never being written as a character that could or couldn't die.

"The EU is bound by what is seen in the most current version of the films and by directives from George Lucas"
-Leland Chee
Lucas Licensing database administrator
So simply put. If the films contridict it, the movies trump it. So even if Driods was canon, after being negated by ROTS, it no longer is.

Simple as that... :p

Class316 05-27-05 03:51 PM

Most see canon as what is concretely part of the Star Wars saga. The 6 movies are obviously the most concrete canon. The rest people bicker about.

IMO the most concrete canons besides the movies are

Holiday Special: Because it was on TV and it doesnít contradict any of the movies. Also George Lucas himself made it. So how could it not be canon? The fact that itís crap is irrelevant.

Clone Wars: Again it was on TV and Lucas had insight on it (not sure how much). Events of the Clone Wars are basically summarized in the title scroll of ROTS. The Clone Wars cartoons end exactly where ROTS begins. So it goes hand and hand with ROTS. I donít see how itís not canon

Shadows of The Empire: Not as concrete as the above 2 (mainly cause it was never on TV), but Lucas gave his ďthumbs upĒ for it and even made action figures based on it. I really think they should be a SOTE CGI movie to make it a non debatable full fledged canon.

Mopower 05-27-05 04:07 PM


Originally Posted by Class316

Clone Wars: Again it was on TV and Lucas had insight on it (not sure how much). Events of the Clone Wars are basically summarized in the title scroll of ROTS. The Clone Wars cartoons end exactly where ROTS begins. So it goes hand and hand with ROTS. I donít see how itís not canon


And if it wasn't canon then why did Lucas make General Greivous cough and weeze? It was a result of Mace Windu force crushing him in the Clone Wars cartoon. That should be proof enough.

Jackskeleton 05-27-05 04:12 PM


Holiday Special: Because it was on TV and it doesnít contradict any of the movies
Wouldn't it go against the how Chewie owed Han a life debt for saving him from slavery, so raising a family would be a little out of the question.. don'tcha think?

Mopower 05-27-05 04:14 PM

And I doubt Art Carney runs a toy shop on an Imperial base.

Breakfast with Girls 05-27-05 04:24 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon

Class316 05-27-05 04:28 PM


Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
Wouldn't it go against the how Chewie owed Han a life debt for saving him from slavery, so raising a family would be a little out of the question.. don'tcha think?

Just because he owed Han a life debt does that mean he can't meet someone and marry her?

Also, he didn't raise the family. They were just there. And he dropped by once in a while. Obviously he couldn't live with them living on the edge running from the Empire.

Funnily enough, the Wookie homes in the Holiday Special are similar to those in ROTS :D

fujishig 05-27-05 06:21 PM

Wait, which one is Rumble and which one is Frenzy again?

And what, the Ewok movies aren't canon now? What is the world coming to?

cactusoly 05-27-05 07:10 PM

As far as I know from several sources, I'd have to research for the exact details, Lucas was not involved in the Holiday Special. He gave the rights to the special and allowed stock footage to be used as well as preconceptual designs from the Lucas archives. He was not involved in the writing or the production whatsoever . (He was working on the writing and preproduction for Empire at the time) When he saw it he was horrified and did not allow it to be rerun. Since it was not writtten by Lucas it is not considered cannon.

Michael Corvin 05-27-05 10:39 PM

http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/i/z/rv/20...k2-300x300.gif

http://www.infomotions.com/musings/ola-2002/canon.jpeg

http://images-jp.amazon.com/images/P...9.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

http://www.movieposterservice.com/ca...mages/6166.jpg

Ruderic 05-28-05 12:27 AM

Clone Wars should be considered canon.

The holiday special's cartoon featuring Boba Fett may be canon. Doesn't Han mention his encounter with Boba in Episode 5 when Leia is asking him why he is leaving?

NitroJMS 05-28-05 12:29 AM

I remember reading years ago to only trust the 6 (then 3) main films and the 2 Ewok spinoff films as true canon. Everything else was secondary. I don't know how Lucas still feels about the Ewok movies though.

Calculon 05-28-05 01:54 AM


Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
...Canon means anything that really happens....

Now I'm as big a fanboy as anyone else, but I still know that none of the stuff in the movies "really happened." :) :)

caligulathegod 05-28-05 02:30 AM

Missed a canon/cannon
http://home.columbus.rr.com/caligula...rad_cannon.jpg

Jackskeleton 05-28-05 02:37 AM


Originally Posted by Calculon
Now I'm as big a fanboy as anyone else, but I still know that none of the stuff in the movies "really happened." :) :)


But it did... in a galaxy far far away.

cactusoly 05-28-05 05:16 PM


Originally Posted by Ruderic
Clone Wars should be considered canon.

The holiday special's cartoon featuring Boba Fett may be canon. Doesn't Han mention his encounter with Boba in Episode 5 when Leia is asking him why he is leaving?

he said the bounty hunter nor a specific bounty hunter... besides if you are taking into account EU there was a comic story told about the encounter he mentioned.


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