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Regarding General Grievous (possible spoilers)

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Regarding General Grievous (possible spoilers)

Old 05-23-05, 05:51 PM
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Ha! Boba fett is dead. simple as that. I'm glad Attack of the Clones killed any of that stupid Fett as a jedi talk that was floating around.
Old 05-23-05, 06:13 PM
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If you read LOE, you see that while Grievous can be a bad a$$ at times, he commits rather cowardly acts for the most part. It should also be noted that in LOE he does get outsmarted by Mace Windu and knocked off the top of a train. He does manage to take out some Jedi when he gets Palpatine, but he then hops a transport and apparently drives it in a very clumsy manner due to his damage and in the end proves to be a rather weak minded individual.
FWIW, out of all the bad guys everyone makes out to be more than they really are in this series, he really did fare the best. Plus, in the novelization Obi-Wan makes a neat factual statement. After Grievous boasts:"I have been trained in the Jedi Arts by Count Dooku." Obi-Wan responds with: "I trained the man who killed your Master." So it would make sense for Obi-Wan to own him.
Old 05-23-05, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
Ha! Boba fett is dead. simple as that. I'm glad Attack of the Clones killed any of that stupid Fett as a jedi talk that was floating around.

Never heard the Fett as Jedi theory, but he ain't dead if you are a true EU reader like myself.

Granted, I pick and choose which EU I will accept as story, but who cares? Let someone believe what they want.
Old 05-23-05, 06:49 PM
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I love Boba Fett more than life itself, but even I have to accept his death. Just don't believe in the Extended Universe stuff.

According to my Collector's Guide, Rob Coleman had a lot of trouble getting George to divulge any information on Grievous, so he just went ahead used the only thing George would give up: he's an "alpha" of Vader - more machine than man (and apparently has a really bad respirator). Anything else you read is EU stuff, which I leave, but others may decide to take.

-HM
Old 05-23-05, 07:34 PM
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personally, I felt he was way over the top in the cartoons and just about right in the movie
Old 05-23-05, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mikehunt
personally, I felt he was way over the top in the cartoons and just about right in the movie

Same here. I think LOE and ROTS portrayed about how he should have been.
Old 05-23-05, 10:12 PM
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True that Obi Wan is a powerful Jedi but given that Grievous took out so many Jedi without breaking a sweat he should have been more of a force to be reckoned with. At the bare minimum it should have been BOTH Obi Wan and Anakin to defeat him, not just Obi Wan.

Last edited by Class316; 05-24-05 at 09:51 AM.
Old 05-23-05, 10:31 PM
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Grievous was a coward just as Mace says, because of his tendancy to flee and save his own skin. Clearly he couldn't have been a complete coward as he was said to have swooped down and capture Palpatine, a very daring move, possible only because of Palpatines cooperation no doubt.

However, In two seperate instances he sends his guard droids to fight for him while he stands back. After they fail he fights just long enough to escape both times. The second time, his duel with Obi-wan, is meant to showcase Obi-wans strength. Still, both he and Grievous take their beating in the fight and Obi-wan only wins because he exposed the heart and resorted to using a blaster, a desperate move.

It seems clear that Grievous was not supposed to seem stronger than a Jedi Master, especially a great Jedi such as Obi-wan. Granted he may have killed Jedi in other instances, but these weren't even important enough to be on screen. The light saber collection is enough evidence. Bottom line, the character of Greivous did not come off was weak, but he inevitably had to die in order to move the plot along.

Last edited by Sir Talos; 05-23-05 at 10:39 PM.
Old 05-23-05, 10:38 PM
  #34  
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but he ain't dead if you are a true EU reader like myself.
Personally, I dislike the majority of the EU. Half of it reads like fan circle jerking. Especially the Boba Fett shit. Worthless.
Old 05-24-05, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
Personally, I dislike the majority of the EU. Half of it reads like fan circle jerking. Especially the Boba Fett shit. Worthless.
Well, I will admit that most of it leaves something to be desired. I think I might be jaded in that I only read the EU that is considered the cream of the crop (aka the Zahn trilogy, Shadows of the Empire, LOE, and the novelizations of the movies). I read some of Tales of the Bounty Hunter and while I liked the Boba Fett story, the others left a lot to be desired.
Spoiler:
IG-88 was the Death Star in ROTJ?!? WTF!?!


In short, seeing as how I have only read one real Boba Fett story in the EU and have read only the alleged good stuff, I guess you're right. What I am trying to say is others might think differently and while I think it okay to say you don't care for it overall, dismissing with a brusque (sp.?) attitude of "worthless" might rub some people the wrong way. Please Jack, be courteous to others fragile opinions!

Staying on topic: I hope they make a reference to Grievous in some future EU taking place after ROTS. Perhaps they could find his armor and put on display in an Imperial Museum.
Old 05-24-05, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mikehunt
personally, I felt he was way over the top in the cartoons and just about right in the movie

There's no one to blame for that but Lucas. Know that thousands of fans(if not more) were going to see this, and having it litterally tie in to the movie down to the very last second(the final shot of Clone Wars 25 is the opening scene of RotS), he should have maintained more creative control. And honestly, what really builds him up was his appearance in the first Clone Wars series. He's scary in the second series but not invincible as he appeared to be in the first one. I mean those three Jedi survive about 10 times longer against him and a squad of his fancy new robots than 6 Jedi in first series.

I should just let this go but it really was my biggest letdown of the movie. In fact, since i already had my Anakin/Padme expectations pretty low, I'd say it was my only real letdown. I just don't think it'd be that hard to replace 5 minutes of him driving around in circles barely escaping with 5 mins of badass dueling. To me the whole sequence was like watching someone trying to swat an annoying fly. You know the fly has no chance and it's just a matter of time, how long do you bother to watch, and is it really all that interesting?
Old 05-24-05, 11:14 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by IanH
Obi-Wan was a Jedi with skills above the avg. Jedi. Not just better than avg. but possibly equal to or even more powerful than Mace Windu. We saw that he could really step up to the plate and even channel his "anger" (which a Jedi isn't supposed to do) at times. Like the time when he defeated Darth Maul when he was only a Padwan. Even Qui-Gon was beaten by Darth Maul. But after Qui-Gon is killed he emerged from the laser blast shield like a Jedi possessed. And of course he beats Anakin as well.
Obi-Wan was the strongest IMO. This guy defeated Darth Maul, Jango Fett, General Grevious, and Anakin in his prime. Impressive.

I guess his losing to Dooku proved how strong he really was.
Old 05-24-05, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
Obi-Wan was the strongest IMO. This guy defeated Darth Maul, Jango Fett, General Grevious, and Anakin in his prime. Impressive.

I guess his losing to Dooku proved how strong he really was.
I thought his battle with Jango was more of a tie than him beating him. Been a while though since I watched AOTC so I could be wrong.

I agree that he is a very powerful jedi, but defeating a powerful on-screen Grievous would have been so much better than him beating a (edit)wimp (guess we can't say the fucking P word ) on-screen Grievous. Glad a lot of you liked him in the film. I thought he was weak. It will be interesting to see what my wife thinks about him when she sees it as she has no back knowledge of him or his skills. Another friend who didn't read the books or see the cartoon thought he was a weak character b/c of the way he was portrayed on screen. I guess I like my movie villains powerful and cocky so that when an even more powerful good guy kicks his ass, it is that much sweeter.

Last edited by Ketamine; 05-24-05 at 12:29 PM.
Old 05-24-05, 12:24 PM
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Battle with Jango was a tie definitely.
Old 05-24-05, 03:41 PM
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I've only seen the movie, never read a EU book and only saw the first Clone Wars cartoon on the night it premiered. And I remember nothing about it.

That said, I though Gen. Grevious was a weak villain. The light saber collection was hardly enough of an indication of his abilities. The average Jedi has been so powered down in the prequels that it seems he could have killed them with a blaster, or some type of trickery. In fact, his comments to Obi-Wan just before they fight makes it sound as if he hadn't ever really fought a jedi in close combat, just some training with Dooku, and the way he gets his ass handed to him backs that up.
Old 05-25-05, 09:16 PM
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Of course he was weak in ROTS, he had his chest crushed in the last episode of Clone wars which was IMMEDIATELY before the beginning of ROTS. A couple of hours in between tops, but not nearly enough time to recover
Old 05-26-05, 02:17 PM
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Padme went from finding out about the pregnancy to giving birth within the span of the movie. At a minimium several months took place between the start of the film and Gievous's showdown with Obi-Wan.
Old 05-26-05, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by wmansir
Padme went from finding out about the pregnancy to giving birth within the span of the movie. At a minimium several months took place between the start of the film and Gievous's showdown with Obi-Wan.
Exactly! I'm surprised they couldn't fix Grevious.
Old 05-26-05, 02:43 PM
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Mace Windu is like 10 regular Jedi and Obi-Wan is like 10 Mace Windus.

That and Obi-Wan only killed him because he had a gun.
Old 05-26-05, 02:46 PM
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I agree that the 2nd meeting with Obi-Wan was months, not hours after the injury. I am unhappy with Grievous in the movie, but I guess you could say that when he had his chest crushed, it permanently and severely injured his lungs and they couldn't be fixed with a machine. Sure, Vader seems to have a breathing problem which needed support from his suit to keep him alive but at least in the movies, we see no reason that his lungs were actually injured. Sure it is possible that he had smoke inhalation/noxious fumes injury but really don't think so. Pretty weak (but acceptable) explanation if the lung injury has taken Grievous down a level or two in ability. If that was the reason, they should have at least explained it more in the movie. One little scene with Dooku or someone else where we find out that the bad ass Grievous was mortally wounded by Mace and that he would never be the same again. Instead, we have a guy that was a jedi killer (even if you discount the cartoon extent of his power) who had at least 4 sabers from besting jedi in combat. We see nothing on screen that makes us think that he really had much skill. Again, if it were due to injury, Lucas should have clued in the audience to that fact more than having him wheezing. I think ultimately, it has not worked trying to tie cartoon, video games, etc. into movies with content that is only known by seeing the other media (example: the Matrix sequels).

Last edited by Ketamine; 05-26-05 at 02:49 PM.
Old 05-26-05, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bus
Mace Windu is like 10 regular Jedi and Obi-Wan is like 10 Mace Windus.

That and Obi-Wan only killed him because he had a gun.
Obi-Wan was no Mace Windu, let alone 10 of him.
Old 05-26-05, 03:01 PM
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We don't really know whether or not Mace is better than Obi Wan since we never really saw Mace in a battle. Though he was against Palpatine he still had 3 other Jedi helping him and Palpatine was likely just pretending to lose cause he wanted Anakin to turn.
Old 05-26-05, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Class316
We don't really know whether or not Mace is better than Obi Wan since we never really saw Mace in a battle. Though he was against Palpatine he still had 3 other Jedi helping him and Palpatine was likely just pretending to lose cause he wanted Anakin to turn.
Granted we didn't see it in the movies, but I think it is well know that Mace was 2nd only to Yoda. I think we can take info from starwars.com as fact and it says...

A respected Jedi on par with the venerable Yoda, Mace Windu was a senior member of the Jedi High Council. His wisdom and experience were legendary, and his words carried great weight.
Old 05-26-05, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by wmansir
Padme went from finding out about the pregnancy to giving birth within the span of the movie. At a minimium several months took place between the start of the film and Gievous's showdown with Obi-Wan.

Actually, it was about 6-7 months at the very least since Anakin and Padme last saw each other. So Padme had to be well in her way into the preganacy when Anakin showed up. She was already big. So it wasn't a matter of months but days or weeks at most. Then again, all of the scientist were already dead that helped built him assuming that they are the same folks who got their necks crushed in the clone wars cartoon by anakin. Add in that Dooku is dead and you don't have him doing anymore training and he has little to no support on that end and you see why he was as weak as he was.
Old 05-26-05, 04:52 PM
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1. Boba Fett didn't die in ROTJ. He was swallowed whole and will be digest over ... you get the idea.

2. I find Grevious to be pretty well done in the CW series as well as the movie. Considering they had AOTC, not ROTS, to work with before creating anything I find the Clone War depiction of Mace to be goofy. Amazing that he and a dozen other Jedi seemed helpless at the end of AOTC but in the cartoon series he could have destroyed all of them, with ease!

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