Ep.III: has it restored your faith in Hayden, the prequels, or Lucas?
05-23-05, 09:25 AM
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Ep.III: has it restored your faith in Hayden, the prequels, or Lucas?
To me, Hayden's acting was amazing. He has come a LONG way.
Also, catching AOTC last night on TV, everything was a little better after having seen ROTS -- a little more bearable.
I'm also happy that it broke records for Georgy boy.
Also, catching AOTC last night on TV, everything was a little better after having seen ROTS -- a little more bearable.
I'm also happy that it broke records for Georgy boy.
05-23-05, 09:34 AM
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He may have improved but I think it's more likely that people have simply become use to him and his acting style.
05-23-05, 09:37 AM
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Nope, not it for me. I watched AOTC and thought he was shitty in it still, and I think he was excellent in ROTS: his delivery and emotion and timing are infinitely better. (which is to be expected since he had another 3 years to perfect his 'craft').
AOTC: Not use to it
ROTS: can't get enough of it
AOTC: Not use to it
ROTS: can't get enough of it
05-23-05, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by PixyJunket
Same here.
But, unfortunately, you hate Family Guy...and I can't ask you to rule the galaxy with me...sorry.
05-23-05, 09:42 AM
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I like Hayden especially in ROTS. It's Lucas's dialogue that needs to go. I wish he would have got a good screen writer to write the dialogue for the scenes with Anikin and Padme. The how "Because I love you" scene in ROTS had the whole crowd in the theater laughing. Pathetic. Even the best actor couldn't pull that shit off.
05-23-05, 09:45 AM
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Oh would you guys just give a rest with the fuckin "He can't write for shit" bashing? It's old! And if you don't like it, go watch the OT...notice anything? Oh yes that's right, it's the same fuckin style of dialogue!
I never understood complaints against dialogue period, has long as it moves the story along and gives character interaction, it's good.
And Hayden was perfect in both AOTC and ROTS. Hayden actually wanted to play it all dark in AOTC, but George told him to play it like a teenager, which Anakin is at that stage. Hayden was perfect and I dare anyone to watch 4-6 now and not think of Hayden under the mask. He brought a real heart and soul to what was previously a pretty soulless character.
I never understood complaints against dialogue period, has long as it moves the story along and gives character interaction, it's good.
And Hayden was perfect in both AOTC and ROTS. Hayden actually wanted to play it all dark in AOTC, but George told him to play it like a teenager, which Anakin is at that stage. Hayden was perfect and I dare anyone to watch 4-6 now and not think of Hayden under the mask. He brought a real heart and soul to what was previously a pretty soulless character.
05-23-05, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by QuiGonJosh
Oh would you guys just give a rest with the fuckin "He can't write for shit" bashing? It's old! And if you don't like it, go watch the OT...notice anything? Oh yes that's right, it's the same fuckin style of dialogue!
Sorry for saying my opinion in a thread that asks for it.
Why can't people that think the dialogue is good just live with the fact that some people think it sucks and shut the fuck up about it?
05-23-05, 10:16 AM
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Did I bash him? Hardly. All I was saying is that shit is so old, get over it, half the damn internet is full of "Lucas can't write for shit" type messages...I just get sick of hearin that shit, you know what I mean?
Sorry, I just get a little pissed at the general attitude of people online sometimes...it wasn't really anything personal, just needed to vent...sorry.
Sorry, I just get a little pissed at the general attitude of people online sometimes...it wasn't really anything personal, just needed to vent...sorry.
05-23-05, 10:28 AM
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I never said that it was right or wrong, god does anyone even bother reading anyones fuckin posts or do they just spout off shit to get their typing skills better.
I said I just get sick of hearing the same old complaints again and again...move on...
I said I just get sick of hearing the same old complaints again and again...move on...
05-23-05, 11:10 AM
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I never understood complaints against dialogue period, has long as it moves the story along and gives character interaction, it's good.
I do care about dialogue. It sucked. It did not suck in the OT, especially ESB. ANH had mediocore dialgoue,and the throne room battle in ROTJ had a fantastic blend of dialogue and real acting - which is something sorely missing from the prequels (save some parts from ROTS)
All I was saying is that shit is so old, get over it, half the damn internet is full of "Lucas can't write for shit" type messages...I just get sick of hearin that shit, you know what I mean?
05-23-05, 11:11 AM
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I'm not a Prequel hater. Its Star Wars. Even before I saw TPM I knew I was going to be taken back to a galaxy far far away with jedi knights, their lightsabers, spectacular space battles, fantastic worlds, and a "continuation" of a series I loved. Besides the CGI, which I sometimes have a problem with, I got what I wanted.
But, the fatal flaw of the Prequels was exactly what made the OT great beyond the special effects and creatures. Lucas forgot to keep it simple. A FAIRY TALE for kids and adults. The OT could be explained to any 5 year old and he could get what it was basically about.
Episode IV A New Hope: Rescue the princess from the Death Star (castle) and blow up the Death Star (kill the dragon).
Episode V ESB: Escape from the Imperial Forces, Luke learns to be a Jedi and tries to rescue his friends from the Empire.
Episode VI: Rescue Han from a deadly gangster, final confrontation between Luke and his father, and the Empire is destroyed.
Now try to sum up the Prequels. Sure its got many of the familiar and simple elements but the focus became lost and spread out among disparate character and politics. What the OT had were focused characters driving towards a common goal and that is what gave the OT such great momentum. The Prequels on the other hand constantly switched gears. Lucas attempted to make a historical epic with numerous court intrigues and tried to keep the breathless Saturday Matinee pace as well. That was and will always be the Prequels' fatal flaw. We always saw the Galactic Civil War from the ground level point of view. Either from the POV of Leia, Luke, Han, 3P0/R2, or Chewie. We were always caught up with what they were doing and we often felt limited by what they knew as well. The Prequels on the other hand felt less intimate because it didn't seem to have the same perspective. It told us everything that was going on and so the story felt less personal. The sense of fun that was central to the OT came in spurts interrupted by history lessons that were as dull as any text book.
If Lucas kept the politics in the background and kept it simple like the OT I doubt we'd think too much about Hayden, the bad acting, the bad dialog, or the other things as we have now.
*For many of the same reasons I think this is why I seem to feel less affection for The Two Towers and Return of the King compared to The Fellowhip of the Ring. Peter Jackson on the other hand managed to somehow keep the focus on the main characters but as soon as the story turned towards more broader themes the movies did feel more impersonal. LOTR on the other hand managed to keep its momentum; although there were many times that TTT and ROTK were in danger of falling into the same trap that the SW Prequels fell into.
But, the fatal flaw of the Prequels was exactly what made the OT great beyond the special effects and creatures. Lucas forgot to keep it simple. A FAIRY TALE for kids and adults. The OT could be explained to any 5 year old and he could get what it was basically about.
Episode IV A New Hope: Rescue the princess from the Death Star (castle) and blow up the Death Star (kill the dragon).
Episode V ESB: Escape from the Imperial Forces, Luke learns to be a Jedi and tries to rescue his friends from the Empire.
Episode VI: Rescue Han from a deadly gangster, final confrontation between Luke and his father, and the Empire is destroyed.
Now try to sum up the Prequels. Sure its got many of the familiar and simple elements but the focus became lost and spread out among disparate character and politics. What the OT had were focused characters driving towards a common goal and that is what gave the OT such great momentum. The Prequels on the other hand constantly switched gears. Lucas attempted to make a historical epic with numerous court intrigues and tried to keep the breathless Saturday Matinee pace as well. That was and will always be the Prequels' fatal flaw. We always saw the Galactic Civil War from the ground level point of view. Either from the POV of Leia, Luke, Han, 3P0/R2, or Chewie. We were always caught up with what they were doing and we often felt limited by what they knew as well. The Prequels on the other hand felt less intimate because it didn't seem to have the same perspective. It told us everything that was going on and so the story felt less personal. The sense of fun that was central to the OT came in spurts interrupted by history lessons that were as dull as any text book.
If Lucas kept the politics in the background and kept it simple like the OT I doubt we'd think too much about Hayden, the bad acting, the bad dialog, or the other things as we have now.
*For many of the same reasons I think this is why I seem to feel less affection for The Two Towers and Return of the King compared to The Fellowhip of the Ring. Peter Jackson on the other hand managed to somehow keep the focus on the main characters but as soon as the story turned towards more broader themes the movies did feel more impersonal. LOTR on the other hand managed to keep its momentum; although there were many times that TTT and ROTK were in danger of falling into the same trap that the SW Prequels fell into.
Last edited by IanH; 05-23-05 at 11:18 AM.
05-23-05, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by chanster
Fantastic! Why not just state "I don't care about dialogue in Star Wars movies" Instead of shitting all over people in the thread
I do care about dialogue. It sucked. It did not suck in the OT, especially ESB. ANH had mediocore dialgoue,and the throne room battle in ROTJ had a fantastic blend of dialogue and real acting - which is something sorely missing from the prequels (save some parts from ROTS)
And so is Lucas' apologists who shit all over others who dare say the PT was not up to snuff with the OT. I guess you want all of the Internet to say "the PT was fantastic! Woo hoo" Great. Except that wouldn't be the truth nor very interesting
I do care about dialogue. It sucked. It did not suck in the OT, especially ESB. ANH had mediocore dialgoue,and the throne room battle in ROTJ had a fantastic blend of dialogue and real acting - which is something sorely missing from the prequels (save some parts from ROTS)
And so is Lucas' apologists who shit all over others who dare say the PT was not up to snuff with the OT. I guess you want all of the Internet to say "the PT was fantastic! Woo hoo" Great. Except that wouldn't be the truth nor very interesting
05-23-05, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by IanH
I'm not a Prequel hater. Its Star Wars. Even before I saw TPM I knew I was going to be taken back to a galaxy far far away with jedi knights, their lightsabers, spectacular space battles, fantastic worlds, and a "continuation" of a series I loved. Besides the CGI, which I sometimes have a problem with, I got what I wanted.
But, the fatal flaw of the Prequels was exactly what made the OT great beyond the special effects and creatures. Lucas forgot to keep it simple. A FAIRY TALE for kids and adults. The OT could be explained to any 5 year old and he could get what it was basically about.
Episode IV A New Hope: Rescue the princess from the Death Star (castle) and blow up the Death Star (kill the dragon).
Episode V ESB: Escape from the Imperial Forces, Luke learns to be a Jedi and tries to rescue his friends from the Empire.
Episode VI: Rescue Han from a deadly gangster, final confrontation between Luke and his father, and the Empire is destroyed.
Now try to sum up the Prequels. Sure its got the same familiar and simple elements but the focus became lost and spread out among disparate character and politics. What the OT had were focused characters driving towards a common goal and that is what gave the OT such great momentum. The Prequels on the other hand constantly switched gears. Lucas attempted to make a historical epic with numerous court intrigues and tried to keep the breathless Saturday Matinee pace as well. That was and will always be the Prequels' fatal flaw. We always saw the Galactic Civil War from the ground level point of view. Either from the POV of Leia, Luke, Han, 3P0/R2, or Chewie. We were always caught up with what they were doing and we often felt limited by what they knew as well. The Prequels on the other hand felt less intimate because it didn't seem to have the same perspective. It told us everything that was going on and so the story felt less personal. The sense of fun that was central to the OT came in spurts interrupted by history lessons that were as dull as any text book.
If Lucas kept the politics in the background and kept it simple like the OT I doubt we'd think too much about Hayden, the bad acting, the bad dialog, or the other things as we have now.
*For many of the same reasons I think this is why I seem to feel less affection for The Two Towers and Return of the King compared to The Fellowhip of the Ring. Peter Jackson on the other hand managed to somehow keep the focus on the main characters but as soon as the story turned towards more broader themes the movies did feel more impersonal. LOTR on the other hand managed to keep its momentum; although there were many times that TTT and ROTK were in danger of falling into the same trap that the SW Prequels fell into.
But, the fatal flaw of the Prequels was exactly what made the OT great beyond the special effects and creatures. Lucas forgot to keep it simple. A FAIRY TALE for kids and adults. The OT could be explained to any 5 year old and he could get what it was basically about.
Episode IV A New Hope: Rescue the princess from the Death Star (castle) and blow up the Death Star (kill the dragon).
Episode V ESB: Escape from the Imperial Forces, Luke learns to be a Jedi and tries to rescue his friends from the Empire.
Episode VI: Rescue Han from a deadly gangster, final confrontation between Luke and his father, and the Empire is destroyed.
Now try to sum up the Prequels. Sure its got the same familiar and simple elements but the focus became lost and spread out among disparate character and politics. What the OT had were focused characters driving towards a common goal and that is what gave the OT such great momentum. The Prequels on the other hand constantly switched gears. Lucas attempted to make a historical epic with numerous court intrigues and tried to keep the breathless Saturday Matinee pace as well. That was and will always be the Prequels' fatal flaw. We always saw the Galactic Civil War from the ground level point of view. Either from the POV of Leia, Luke, Han, 3P0/R2, or Chewie. We were always caught up with what they were doing and we often felt limited by what they knew as well. The Prequels on the other hand felt less intimate because it didn't seem to have the same perspective. It told us everything that was going on and so the story felt less personal. The sense of fun that was central to the OT came in spurts interrupted by history lessons that were as dull as any text book.
If Lucas kept the politics in the background and kept it simple like the OT I doubt we'd think too much about Hayden, the bad acting, the bad dialog, or the other things as we have now.
*For many of the same reasons I think this is why I seem to feel less affection for The Two Towers and Return of the King compared to The Fellowhip of the Ring. Peter Jackson on the other hand managed to somehow keep the focus on the main characters but as soon as the story turned towards more broader themes the movies did feel more impersonal. LOTR on the other hand managed to keep its momentum; although there were many times that TTT and ROTK were in danger of falling into the same trap that the SW Prequels fell into.
05-23-05, 11:20 AM
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You can use your damn horse beating icon but you said it, and I have the right to call you out on it.
Complex? In a series that had some of the most fantastic simple minded dialogue about love and romance (ala AOTC) I think you need to re-define your term complex.
And who the fuck cares about complex political maneuvering in Star Wars films? Thats like saying, gasp, you go to Star Wars films for the dialogue!
Or it's just that the PT is a lot far more complex, both emotionally and politically than the OT ever was.
And who the fuck cares about complex political maneuvering in Star Wars films? Thats like saying, gasp, you go to Star Wars films for the dialogue!
05-23-05, 11:22 AM
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IanH - 
I still think Christensen's acting sucked big time. Fortunately, there was enough other stuff in this movie to help offset it.
QuiGonJosh - you seem to take this all a bit too personally. I guess it would be hard to expect objectivity about SW from someone that calls himself "QuiGon" though. BTW, I think some of the dialogue - no, I know - was pretty bad.
But Lucas did redeem himself with this one.
I still think Christensen's acting sucked big time. Fortunately, there was enough other stuff in this movie to help offset it.
QuiGonJosh - you seem to take this all a bit too personally. I guess it would be hard to expect objectivity about SW from someone that calls himself "QuiGon" though
. BTW, I think some of the dialogue - no, I know - was pretty bad.But Lucas did redeem himself with this one.
05-23-05, 11:23 AM
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I think you need to watch the fucking movies, cause it's really quite obvious that you don't know shit about the flicks. If you think the PT is simple minded like the OT, then you're just fuckin stupid, no offense man.