Movie Talk A Discussion area for everything movie related including films In The Theaters

Why can't the Jedi sense Sidious..and other ?'s

Old 05-21-05, 10:52 PM
  #1  
New Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3
Why can't the Jedi sense Sidious..and other ?'s

I'm in no way trying to make plot holes, the span between III and IV explain most...but I have one question I could'nt explain away myself. Why can't any of the Jedi sense that Palp is Sidious? Or do they and just dont make it obvious? Most of the Jedi can sense that Anakin is going dark...Yoda feels Jedi dieing, as does Obi throughout the films...Vader and Yoda feel it from galaxies away. Why can't Anyone sense that palp is a Sith Lord? Does he have that much control of the force? He is a student of plagueous (sp?). Im just so confused on the subject.

Also, are there any theories that Yoda can see FAR into the future? Sure seems likes there's evidence throughout the whole series that he knows more than he alludes to. This would help explain away my previous question.

I haven't read any SW books, so this might also explain most of my questions.
mingroneL1 is offline  
Old 05-21-05, 10:55 PM
  #2  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Maxflier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 11,617
That's a very good question.
During the movie I was also wondering how Obi-Wan could be standing so close to Dooku in that one scene when he is spying on him without Dooku being able to sense his presence.
Maxflier is offline  
Old 05-21-05, 11:25 PM
  #3  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Carrollton, Ga
Posts: 4,809
Why can't any of the Jedi sense that Palp is Sidious?
Because Sidious is pulling the wool over their eyes. Palpatine is an extremely powerful Sith, perhaps as powerful or moreso than any Jedi. As Yoda says in Episode II, "the dark side clouds everything." That's the answer.

Or, you could go with the obvious. If they sensed Palpatine was a Sith, there wouldn't have been a prequel trilogy. It would have been over after Episode I.
Terrell is offline  
Old 05-22-05, 01:18 AM
  #4  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Pa
Posts: 11,714
Simply put, the force works in mysterious ways. One of the quirky things thrown into Star Wars is how things are usually right under everyone's nose. If you look over all 6 movies you'll see a constantly repeating theme of, "the best hiding place is in plain view."

A perfect example is Vader looking for Luke. Once he feels his presence for the first time in ANH he is looking everywhere for him. Sidious on the other hand seemed to be lost when it came to Luke.


"My son is with them .... I have felt him" - Vader

"Strange that I have not." - Sidious
DthRdrX is offline  
Old 05-22-05, 12:46 PM
  #5  
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 181
Originally Posted by mingroneL1
Why can't Anyone sense that palp is a Sith Lord? Does he have that much control of the force?
The Jedi admit that their ability to use the force is being hampered by the Dark side. In Attack of the Clones, Windu privately discusses this with Yoda. To paraphrase him, he says "We must tell the senate that our ability to use the force is diminished". Sidiuous is very strong in the Dark side, his ability to shroud the Jedi's view is an example. Dooku's inability to sense Obi-wan on Geonosis is just the opposite, he is comparably weak.

Also, Vader and Luke are really the only ones able to sense each other as far as I recall, this could be just a father and son thing. Obi-wan is able to sense a "great disturbance in the force" and Yoda is able to sense when Anakin is in pain, but not other peoples presence.

Last edited by Sir Talos; 05-22-05 at 12:50 PM.
Sir Talos is offline  
Old 05-22-05, 12:58 PM
  #6  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: in da cloud
Posts: 26,196
sideous is powerful and probably found a way to have a jeckyll and hyde type deal with palpantine/sideous. In public he is palpantine, but in private with maul and speaking with the separatists he is sideous. when he is palpantine he can hide his dark side half.

anakin is a wimp just like everyone says

even in the OT he is really a no one until the death star is destroyed. he takes orders from tarkin. Only in ESB does he start to command the fleet.
al_bundy is offline  
Old 05-22-05, 01:50 PM
  #7  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
madcougar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Houston
Posts: 6,689
I believe it was that fake mustache that the Emperor wore around the palace...

Seriously, I thought that that Palpaltine was a clone, and that Darth Sidious was controling him from afar. So much for my theory.
madcougar is offline  
Old 05-22-05, 02:10 PM
  #8  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Josh-da-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Bible Belt
Posts: 30,099
Sloppy writing and a faulty premise?

The problem with creating something like "The Force" is that it's something so potentially all-powerful and all-knowing that it becomes impossible to build suspense within a story if it's used to its full effect. So, within the story, it's only invoked when it's convenient to the plot.
Josh-da-man is online now  
Old 05-22-05, 02:26 PM
  #9  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: City of the lakers.. riots.. and drug dealing cops.. los(t) Angel(e)s. ca.
Posts: 54,199
sloppy writing? more like nitpicking fans. It's pretty clear that yoda and mace already state the obvious that the dark side can cloud and mask things.
Jackskeleton is offline  
Old 05-22-05, 02:35 PM
  #10  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Mr. Cinema's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 18,044
Originally Posted by al_bundy
sideous is powerful and probably found a way to have a jeckyll and hyde type deal with palpantine/sideous. In public he is palpantine, but in private with maul and speaking with the separatists he is sideous. when he is palpantine he can hide his dark side half.

anakin is a wimp just like everyone says

even in the OT he is really a no one until the death star is destroyed. he takes orders from tarkin. Only in ESB does he start to command the fleet.
I've always wondered this myself about Vader taking orders from anyone else besides Sidious. It seems to me Sidious would have made sure Vader was the one in charge, even if he wasn't as strong as he could have been. He could've used the force anytime on Tarkin.
Mr. Cinema is offline  
Old 05-22-05, 04:09 PM
  #11  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,982
It's just bad writing.
That's what happens when one does a lot of cut and paste with story line.
wm lopez is offline  
Old 05-22-05, 05:15 PM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 729
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
I've always wondered this myself about Vader taking orders from anyone else besides Sidious. It seems to me Sidious would have made sure Vader was the one in charge, even if he wasn't as strong as he could have been. He could've used the force anytime on Tarkin.

I've wondered about why he took orders from Tarkin as well. Perhaps Palpatine was just covering his own butt, making sure Vader stayed in a minor position so he never got a good chance to overthrow him.
Bluebomber is offline  
Old 05-22-05, 06:58 PM
  #13  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: in da cloud
Posts: 26,196
I guess in those days Vader was the emperor's personal bitch for taking care of special business like hunting down stray jedi. When vader realized obi-wan was onboard he went to face him without asking permission. after tarkin's death he took over the fleet since him and the emperor probably realized there was another skywalker running around. In ESB when the droid found the base vader said skywalker was there, and only later in the movie did the emperor mention skywalker.
al_bundy is offline  
Old 05-23-05, 07:32 AM
  #14  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Mr. Cinema's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 18,044
In Ep. 3, after Anakin tells Mace Windu that Palpatine is a Sith, Mace does say something like "then our worst fears have come true". So it sounds as though they kinda knew, but wasn't sure.
Mr. Cinema is offline  
Old 05-23-05, 08:12 AM
  #15  
DVD Talk Legend
 
raven56706's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Back in the Good Ole USA
Posts: 21,563
Thats the same impression i had... they thought that even from Episode 2
raven56706 is online now  
Old 05-23-05, 09:59 AM
  #16  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Josh-da-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Bible Belt
Posts: 30,099
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
I've always wondered this myself about Vader taking orders from anyone else besides Sidious. It seems to me Sidious would have made sure Vader was the one in charge, even if he wasn't as strong as he could have been. He could've used the force anytime on Tarkin.
Darth Vader was the Emporer's lackey.

While the Emporer wields political power, Darth Vader is his underling that he uses to do his dirty work. He doesn't hold any kind of official position like "second-in-command" or anything; he's just a thug.

I also think that, after the events of ANH, Vader's personal and political fortunes rose because 1) The Emporer dissolved the Senate, which increased the Emporer's power and decreased his accountability (and by extension, Vaders as well), and 2) The Destruction of the Death Star killed off a lot of the military brass like Tarkin.

Which is why we see Vader working more closely with the military structure in ESB.
Josh-da-man is online now  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.