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-   -   why lucus didn't make the films in the correct order? (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/423627-why-lucus-didnt-make-films-correct-order.html)

slateef 05-21-05 04:57 PM

why lucus didn't make the films in the correct order?
 
does anyone know why he made the episodes 4-6 first and then made 1-3?? i mean why didn't he just make them in the proper order?

sure, i know what that means, that we probably wouldn't have had harrison ford playing han solo, etc etc...i'm not saying he SHOULD have done his, but just wondering why...

can anyone shed any light on this? this may have been covered in other threads, so forgive me if it has...

Derrich 05-21-05 05:15 PM

Lucas made this movie called Star Wars, which made a crapload of money. He then made 2 sequels to Star Wars, these also made craploads of money.

Years later, Lucas was visiting Bill Gates, who promptly made fun of Lucas for only having 3 zillion dollars, compared to Gates 6 gazillion.

Thus, Lucas decided to make Episodes 1-3, all of which made craploads of money.

D

bboisvert 05-21-05 05:16 PM

Lucas seems to change his tune (slightly) with every interview on the subject. But, the general reasons he gives are that the first trilogy was going to be "too political" in nature, so he wanted to start with a more action-packed segment.

Time Magazine (May 19, 1980) had a brief article about his plans at that time -- which obviously changed since this is discussing the original proposed 9-film cycle, before it became the 6-film "Anakin" story. Also note the appearance of the original REVENGE of the Jedi title:

http://www.theforce.net/episode2/newspics/Time_SW.jpg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The very first surprise in The Empire Strikes Back comes in the opening credits: the movie is identified as Episode V. Since it is the immediate sequel to the original Star Wars, that opus has been retitled Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope, raising a meteor shower of questions. The answers: Lucas has begun his space saga in the middle, and both pictures are the centerpieces of a projected nine-part series. The remaining movies, fore and aft, have not yet been laid out in detail, but Lucas hs the framework, a kind of history of what happened in that galaxy long ago and far away. A preview:

For years the universe was governed by a republic, which was regulated by the order of Jedi Knight who bore a vague resemblance to Japanese Samurai warriors. But eventually the citizens of the republic "didn't care enough to elect competent officials," says Lucas the historian, and so their government collapsed. A sorcerer, a bad counterpart of Yoda, blocked all opposition and declared himself Emperor. He was not seen in Star Wars: Episode IV, but he makes a brief appearance in The Empire.

The Emperor subverts Darth Vader to his side, and together he and Vader betray the other Knights, nearly all of whom are killed in their trap. Ben Kenobi escapes, and after a fierce struggle he does such injury to Vader that forever after Vader must wear a mask and that noisy life-support system. The fall of the republic and the rise of the empire will form the first of Lucas' three trilogies. The second trilogy, which opened with Star Wars: Episode IV,
center on Luke Skywalker, who will be seen as a child in Episode III. The Empire continues the Skywalker story, and Episode VI, the next film to be made, which will be called Revenge of the Jedi, will end it, with either Luke or Darth Vader walking away from thier final bout. The last three episodes involve the rebuilding of the republic.

Only two of the main characters will appear in all nine films, and they are the robots, Artoo Detoo and See Threepio. Says Lucas: "In effect, the story will be told through their eyes."

slateef 05-21-05 05:21 PM

derrich, i believe you hit the proverbial nail on the head...

;)

shaggy 05-21-05 05:32 PM

He wrote Star Wars as one big script, he has always said it started with Vader attacking the ship and ending with him throwing Sidious down the shaft, he then realized it was too big for one film, so he broke it up. Like many writers, he wrote the back story to fully realize the characters and situations, it was his intention to film those. He said himself, he likes films that just jump in the middle. With the huge success, and people's interest in the prequels he decided it was too good of an opportunity to pass up. He wanted to direct again, and the technology caught up to his vision.

slateef 05-21-05 05:33 PM

shaggy, can i stop laughing now?? man, you guys crack me up...so gullible.

;)

bboisvert 05-21-05 05:36 PM

Also note that in the above description -- which Lucas layed out to Time Magazine 25 years ago the plot holds true to what actually happened in Episode III ...
Spoiler:
Vader gets the suit AFTER he and the Emporer kill nearly all the other jedi in a 'trap'.

slateef 05-21-05 05:39 PM

bboisvert, thanks for the explanation...i still don't understand that if he had this vision all planned out, why he didn't make the films in order.

i mean, we all KNOW what happens in episode III: anakin turns into darth vader. there is no suspense since it's expected. how it was done, sure that's another matter, but still, it doesn't solve the problem (for me anyway) that there was NO suspense in episodes I-III cause we all know the final outcome.

bboisvert 05-21-05 05:45 PM


Originally Posted by slateef
bboisvert, thanks for the explanation...i still don't understand that if he had this vision all planned out, why he didn't make the films in order.

I think, ultimately, the answer is that it was planned out, but not in particular detail. That is, he didn't have finished scripts for any of the backstory. And Lucas hates, Hates, HATES writing scripts.

So, it made more sense to chop pieces off his existing "The Star Wars" script and make it as episode 4. (Keep in mind that he had no clue that there would even be more films -- Star Wars could have flopped.)

Then, after it was a hit, he could take those pieces he cut -- Vader/Luke's relationship, the Emporer, the Wookiee battle (later changed to Ewoks -- and piece together V and VI. And he could take the vague background outlines he had and pull together prequels.

Terrell 05-21-05 05:49 PM

I think it just came down to the stories in the original trilogy being more fun to make, and more interesting to Lucas. What bboisvert said is pretty much what I've read.

Goat3001 05-21-05 06:36 PM

Did Lucas actually write out all 6 episodes? I find that hard to believe with all the plot holes. I'm assuming he had an idea and timeline for the first 3 but only wrote Ep. 4,5 and 6. Then when it came to prequal time he wrote 1,2 and 3.

bboisvert 05-21-05 06:47 PM


Originally Posted by Goat3001
Did Lucas actually write out all 6 episodes? I find that hard to believe with all the plot holes. I'm assuming he had an idea and timeline for the first 3 but only wrote Ep. 4,5 and 6. Then when it came to prequal time he wrote 1,2 and 3.

Pretty much, but actually he did even less writing than that. He basically only had Episode 4 written, and after trimming down his huge script, he had a few ideas and cut plot lines that he could use within Episode 5 and 6. But those actual stories had to be written completely from scratch.

If you read The Annotated Screenplays book, you can get a sense of how these developed... and how little was written in advance.


Lucas had the general themes/outlines down in advance, but all of the movies took shape when someone put pen to paper and wrote the actual screenplay. And for all six films, that didn't happen until a couple of years before shooting.

movielib 05-21-05 07:01 PM

What I remember hearing is that, while Lucas had all nine episodes sketched out (if only loosely), he had no idea if, after making one film it'd be successful and he would be able to make more. He saw Episode 4 (and probably the middle trilogy) as the one that had the best chance to be successful.

That's what I heard a long time ago in a....

jarofclay73 05-21-05 08:27 PM


Originally Posted by bboisvert
Lucas seems to change his tune (slightly) with every interview on the subject. But, the general reasons he gives are that the first trilogy was going to be "too political" in nature, so he wanted to start with a more action-packed segment.

Time Magazine (May 19, 1980) had a brief article about his plans at that time -- which obviously changed since this is discussing the original proposed 9-film cycle, before it became the 6-film "Anakin" story. Also note the appearance of the original REVENGE of the Jedi title:

http://www.theforce.net/episode2/newspics/Time_SW.jpg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The very first surprise in The Empire Strikes Back comes in the opening credits: the movie is identified as Episode V. Since it is the immediate sequel to the original Star Wars, that opus has been retitled Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope, raising a meteor shower of questions. The answers: Lucas has begun his space saga in the middle, and both pictures are the centerpieces of a projected nine-part series. The remaining movies, fore and aft, have not yet been laid out in detail, but Lucas hs the framework, a kind of history of what happened in that galaxy long ago and far away. A preview:

For years the universe was governed by a republic, which was regulated by the order of Jedi Knight who bore a vague resemblance to Japanese Samurai warriors. But eventually the citizens of the republic "didn't care enough to elect competent officials," says Lucas the historian, and so their government collapsed. A sorcerer, a bad counterpart of Yoda, blocked all opposition and declared himself Emperor. He was not seen in Star Wars: Episode IV, but he makes a brief appearance in The Empire.

The Emperor subverts Darth Vader to his side, and together he and Vader betray the other Knights, nearly all of whom are killed in their trap. Ben Kenobi escapes, and after a fierce struggle he does such injury to Vader that forever after Vader must wear a mask and that noisy life-support system. The fall of the republic and the rise of the empire will form the first of Lucas' three trilogies. The second trilogy, which opened with Star Wars: Episode IV,
center on Luke Skywalker, who will be seen as a child in Episode III. The Empire continues the Skywalker story, and Episode VI, the next film to be made, which will be called Revenge of the Jedi, will end it, with either Luke or Darth Vader walking away from thier final bout. The last three episodes involve the rebuilding of the republic.

Only two of the main characters will appear in all nine films, and they are the robots, Artoo Detoo and See Threepio. Says Lucas: "In effect, the story will be told through their eyes."

I think Time and other publications at the time misquoted Lucas as having 3 trilogies (9 films). Lucas says there has never been any more movies after Ep VI. Ever.

I think the confusion comes when Lucas said he had this huge story and decided to start in the middle. I think some people thought he meant that he started with a middle trilogy when he meant he started in the middle of the 6-part saga. In short, VII-IX never existed and still doesn't exist and won't exist as long as Lucas is alive.

Dabaomb 05-21-05 08:34 PM


Originally Posted by bboisvert
I think, ultimately, the answer is that it was planned out, but not in particular detail. That is, he didn't have finished scripts for any of the backstory. And Lucas hates, Hates, HATES writing scripts.

There's a reason for this. He's a terrible screenwriter:


Anakin: You are so beautiful
Padme: It's because I'm so in love with you.
Anakin: No, it's because I'm so in love with you.
:lol:

Mad Dawg 05-21-05 09:53 PM


Only two of the main characters will appear in all nine films, and they are the robots, Artoo Detoo and See Threepio. Says Lucas: "In effect, the story will be told through their eyes."
I thought this was going to be the case going into TPM. I personally think the story would have been greatly improved had he maintained the focus on the droids instead of the ridiculous way he introduced them (primarily C3PO), then threw them away. When the droids began to interact in AOTC and they had a substory working, it showed how sorely they were missed in the first film and a half.

DthRdrX 05-21-05 09:59 PM

A key reason he started where ANH picks up is b/c that seemed like the cheapest to make. The studio wasn't letting him do whatever he wanted the first time around. ANH was also the easiest to make at that time, considering current technology available.

On another subject, in the past he had been very outspoken about making 7-9. During ESB he decided to scrap most of the plot for those movies and combine a lot of ideas into making ROTJ.

Maxflier 05-21-05 10:05 PM

As much as so many people hate TPM,can you imagine if he had started with that instead of Episode IV?We may never have gotten anything beyond the first movie if it never caught on so big like A New Hope did.

Michael Corvin 05-21-05 11:14 PM


Originally Posted by Maxflier
As much as so many people hate TPM,can you imagine if he had started with that instead of Episode IV?We may never have gotten anything beyond the first movie if it never caught on so big like A New Hope did.

i can't believe it took 18 posts to get this point. This is exactly right. Would you have stuck around 25 years to finish the story if it started with TPM? Like posted by someone else above, it is too political. A snore. A New Hope is a fun adventure flick, which was what modern cinema was missing in the 70's.

calhoun07 05-22-05 06:12 PM


Originally Posted by Maxflier
As much as so many people hate TPM,can you imagine if he had started with that instead of Episode IV?We may never have gotten anything beyond the first movie if it never caught on so big like A New Hope did.

Exactly. And I also have heard that is why he started at Episode 4, because he knew the earlier ideas he had for the story would not translate well to film, and the ideas he had for locations would not have worked as well. Even Episode 4 isn't exactly his ideal vision either, and I doubt the new editions are either. If you have read the novelization, you will see a Tatooine that comes to live with plant life once the sun goes down, a completely alien world, but he had to settle for the desert to film his movie in. The earlier episodes, with the sprawling city over an entire planet and the water worlds and other locations had in mind would not have worked.

And I have heard he started with Episode 4 because he truly did not know if his movies would be successful or not, and if they weren't, then he was going to make the one movie out of all he had in his mind that he thought was the most important part of the story to tell. And can you honestly imagine Star Wars being successful as it is today if it had started with any of the other episodes first?

Derrich 05-22-05 07:40 PM

I don't think dumping on TPM is fair in this context. If TPM was made in 1977, it would've been a completely different film. The theme and basic plot wouldve been the same, but Anakin wouldve been closer to Luke's age and the romance with him and Padme would've gotten going earlier. The political stuff would've been cut down a lot and the Naboo war would most likely have been an outer space version of Vietnam.(Easy point of reference so less would have to be explained to the audience)

The Pod Race wouldve been a shorter race with land speeders (and critics would've jumped on it as American Grafitti... in Space). The Final space battle wouldve been very close to the Death Star battle. Jar Jar would've need a guy in a suit, or just a guy, or not there at all.

But in the end, I think it would've been just as big as Star Wars.

D

cactusoly 05-22-05 08:00 PM

off subject but based on an earlier post:

Quote:
Anakin: You are so beautiful
Padme: It's because I'm so in love with you.
Anakin: No, it's because I'm so in love with you.


this is really not that bad.... believe it or not, anyone who has ever had a wife or girlfriend can tell you that this is how couples really talk

Jackskeleton 05-22-05 08:32 PM

The problem is that it's pretty annoying to hear others say it. Much like how you tell people to "get a room". You don't want to see it.

calhoun07 05-22-05 09:31 PM


Originally Posted by Derrich
I don't think dumping on TPM is fair in this context. If TPM was made in 1977, it would've been a completely different film. The theme and basic plot wouldve been the same, but Anakin wouldve been closer to Luke's age and the romance with him and Padme would've gotten going earlier. The political stuff would've been cut down a lot and the Naboo war would most likely have been an outer space version of Vietnam.(Easy point of reference so less would have to be explained to the audience)

The Pod Race wouldve been a shorter race with land speeders (and critics would've jumped on it as American Grafitti... in Space). The Final space battle wouldve been very close to the Death Star battle. Jar Jar would've need a guy in a suit, or just a guy, or not there at all.

But in the end, I think it would've been just as big as Star Wars.

D


Jar Jar wouldn't have been there at all. Lucas said he created the character for his kids, so it's unlikely he would have thought of unleashing that horror on the cinema world in 77.

Lucas is a perfectionist, that we do know. There is no way of really knowing what direction he would have gone in if he made Episode 1 in 77, save for what we could ascertain from his early treatments that we do have and can read. I believe it's his own words that said the limitations at that time would have prevented him from doing what he wanted to do. And, honestly, I don't know if the movies would have had the same impact told in chronological order.

tasha99 05-22-05 09:36 PM

Obviously Lucas filmed these out of order so he could rape our childhoods. :saber:


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