darqleo

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7803983/

Daytrip

1) Leia did play a diminished roll as far as her "jedi" powers go and it's not exactly excusable. the EU does a little work on the subject. they kind of paint her as a powerful Jedi just not in the swordplay category. kind of like a some jedi are more adept at diplomacy or healing. does't really fix the problem but it helps explain it

2) agreed on all points

3) halfway through the EU novel "Cloak of Deception" you'll see just how far Palpatine/Sideous' control goes. he's manipulating Vallorum long before the vote of no confidence. he's also got the ear of every major senator. Palpatine really is a puppet master

4) i think the Sith are explained enough in the films. it's nice to know some of the EU info about how the sith wars ended and why the sith where destroyed but not essential by any means

5) i thought it was pretty clear that Vader wanted Luke to join him and kill the emperor.....not sure what there is to misunderstand on that one

6) i also thought it was pretty clear that all jedi must "unlearn what they have learned" in order to defeat the sith. which means the old jedi ways don't have much merit anymore

7) agreed that the shortcomings of the jedi could be fixed with a little common sense. it seems Dooku and his former padawan Qui-gon are the only ones that see the Council's inability. but that's kind of esential to the fall of the republic and shows more of Lucas' hate for government

8) not sure what his complaint is here there isn't really a way to maintain control of so many powerful beings without teaching them to control their emotions

9) i think yoda should remain a mystery, it adds to his character if you ask me

10) i agree that the force ghost thing needs to be addressed, and i can't stand the midi-chlorian thing. why not just leave it as "the force that flows through all things"

chanster

It seems to me that Lucas in TPM tried to establish two different apsect of the force - "Living Force" and what I call the "Future Force" Qui Qon's first words deal with Obi-Wan concentrating on the here and now instead of on the future.

It seems to me that Lucas pretty much abandonded that...I don't know what is said in Ep. 3 but it would seem that that is why the Jedi are so messed up too much focus on the future (although they can't seem to get that right either) and not enough on the present.

uberjoe

bboisvert

Agreed. I really don't understand how someone could be confused by this. Even the dialog in Empire makes this crystal clear.

Incidentally, this also answers a lot of his confusion on #4. There can only be 2 Sith because whenever there are 3 or more, they gang up on the others. Although this is never explicitly stated in the films...

GuessWho

Both Vader & Palpy wanted Luke to kill the other


Leia's Jedi powers were shown when she "heard" Luke call out while he was dangling under Bespin and she knew where to go.

RoboDad

It seems to me that the author of that article is confused, "about a great many things." So many, in fact, that it isn't even worth taking the time to dissect it, since it is somewhat like an onion. Once you finish peeling back the layers of confusion, there is nothing left.

uberjoe

Plus, the crying.

HoosierPapa

I too am confused about the training of Luke. At the end of Empire, he's a beaten and broken fella. At the beginning of Jedi, he's a confident, silent, badass of a jedi.

So, what did he do between the movies to become such a wicked jedi?

Terrell

Most of these don't really need much if any explaining. The force ghost issue needs explaining, and a couple of others. But most of these issues are explained either obviously or in subtle ways. Only a couple of those need explaining.

RoboDad

Really? I thought it was very clear from the opening scene of ESB that Vader figured out who Luke was between ANH and ESB. At the end of ANH, he didn't yet know that Luke was his son, but by the time the attack on Hoth is launched, it is clear that Vader is obsessed with finding Luke ("I am sure Skywalker is with them!").

BassDude

Gets a fake hand. See also: Skywalker, Anakin

Daytrip

if that's the case then Vader would have to conceal this info from the emperor. which isn't all that hard to believe since we know what his plans where. my main problem lies when he's standing right next to Leia more than once(on the Death Star and in Cloud City) and seemingly has no idea.

bboisvert

Why would he have an idea?

She doesn't know -- so reading her mind wouldn't work.
She's not been trained in the Jedi arts, so he couldn't 'sense' that.

Other than some sort of Midicholorian-type B.S., there's no reason for Vader to sense anything.


I'm with Robo on this one. The author appears to be confused about so many simple things... he appears to need every little thing spelled out in painful detail, instead of just understanding motivations and stuff from context.

GuessWho

She had telepathy with like on Bespin... her Jedi spider-senses were indeed tingling

Shannon Nutt

This is easy...Vader knew his wife was pregnant, and probably assumed (up until shortly before ESB begins) that his child died during childbirth along with her. It probably never occurred to him that she might be carrying twins. He doesn't suspect Luke is his son (most likely) until he hears his name as the rebel destroyer of the death star. He would have no reason to suspect Leia was his daughter at any point...epspecially if she hasn't developed her Jedi abilities. I know of no Jedi skill that would allow the Jedi to know they were related to the other person, unless the person they were related to had knowledge of that relation. Luke doesn't know about Leia until ROTJ, so Vader isn't able to make that connection until ROTJ as well - since none of the three (Luke, Leia or Vader) had any clue about the connection. Vader could probably sense some "force" in Leia during Star Wars and Empire...but not enough to warrant his concern (since she never really developed her skills).

uberjoe

Spoiler from the script:

SleepyW

As for what made Luke a bad-ass from Empire to return? When Lando and Chewy went to go find Han, didn't Luke go back to Degobah to complete his training? It was obvious there was quite a time span between the 2 stories that Luke had enough time to finish his training - at least several months, if not more.

uberjoe

My guess is Kenobi's spirit taught him for however long he was there (how else would he know how to build a lightsaber?).

As to Luke being a bad-ass: uh, he wasn't. Got his butt handed to him by Vader in TESB, and Vader clearly wasn't putting his all into the ROTJ fight. Remember, he wanted to turn him, not kill him. It was only when Luke really lost it and got mad that he got the best of (the holding back) Vader.

flagstone

I see why Vader might want to get his son over to help overthrow the Emporer, but why would Palpatine be looking to replace Vader? Did he just want an apprentice with fewer mechanical parts?

I vaguely recall seeing early drafts of Return of the Jedi that had Vader much more obviously in Palpatine's doghouse, but I don't think I remember why that was (other than, you know, letting his space station get blown up).

bigsoos

I thought people just used the force to guide them through the building process.

that MSNBC guy is an idiot

Ketamine

I think that is fairly obvious. He is always looking for the strongest apprentice. If Luke kills Vader, then Luke is stronger than Vader and as a result, more valuable to Palpatine than Vader. If Vader wins, then the stronger of the 2 is still Palp's bitch and a major threat is out of the way.

uberjoe

Ep3 script spoiler:

uberjoe

I don't see how the force could help someone build a complex piece of machinery. Nah, Kenobi must have helped. That, or -- going with the ROTJ novel -- Luke built the saber in Kenobi's old hut and he had some blueprints lying around.

And that MSNBC guy is a complete idiot.

candyrocket786

The blueprints were also discussed in the Shadows of the Empire novel.

I also agree that the MSNBC guy is a complete idiot