PatD

I wouldn't mind Wes Anderson so much is that he took one of the funniest actors of my generation and sucked out all the joie de vivre from him so that he acts like he's been diagnosed with terminal cancer in every one of Anderson's films.

Ivan Reitman and Harold Ramis created cinematic magic with Bill Murray that Wes Anderson can only dream of.

Solid Snake

Do you still think he needs too...8 years later? lol...

Hokeyboy

Yay accessible audience friendly films!

Coral

Well they're not original within the Wes Anderson canvas.

All his films are very similar in many ways and he doesn't stray too far away from his formula.

PatD

^^
Seconded.
Rinse. Repeat. Release on Criterion.

PopcornTreeCt

I don't think he needs too anymore. The Royal Tenebaums was still a bit outside of the mainstream. Since then he's made The Darjeeling Limited, The Fantastic Mr. Fox and Moonrise Kingdom. He's firmly cemented himself as a director with his own unique style and does not need to appease anyone.

I actually think highly of Anderson now. Mostly because my 2 favorite films from him are The Darjeeling Limited and Moonrise Kingdom. I like him but had he done nothing after The Life Aquatic I might not be saying the same.

P.S. What happened to cygnet?

pazu86

I wasn't too thrilled at a few of his films, quirky just for quirkys sake. Darjeeling Limited, which felt kind of like a long music video compiling all of Wes Anderson's favorite songs while the characters walk around in slow motion

however Moonrise Kingdom I thought was a really great film, probably my favorite Wes Anderson film.

Still haven't had a chance to see The Royal Tenebaums.

Supermallet

You have a tough time with change, don't you?

Draven

Oh good god, what unbelievable crap. Murray obviously enjoys the work. He's not a puppet, slaves to the whims of his director. And it's not like he hasn't done that kind of work before the Anderson movies. There's room for many kinds of roles for an actor of his caliber.

PatD

Disagree the first part all you like (I think Anderson has been a shitty influence on him), but the second thing I said there borders on scientific fact. Anderson could never get a performance out of Murray that he gave in such films as Ghostbusters and Groundhog Day. Ramis and Reitman expected him to do more than mope around throughout the entire shoot.

And frankly, I think the reason Murray does it is to garner critical acclaim from movie snobs and award givers. But, playing a character like Peter Venkman takes a lot more effort and talent than playing the same stock character he's played in all his appearances in Anderson's filmography.

Supermallet

As per usual, you've given something a cursory look, dismissed it, and completely missed the point.

Murray is superb in Wes Anderson's films, as well as movies like Lost In Translation, Broken Flowers, etc. He couldn't and shouldn't have to play Peter Venkman all his life. He grew up, perhaps you'd like to as well?

PatD

What point have I missed? He plays the same dour, put upon character in every one of Anderson's movies. He's a little more lively in Lost in Translation--true.

Peter Venkman and Phil Connors were works of comic genius and hardly Adam Sandler-level. They're no less grown-up than Groucho Marx.

And why does a comic actor have to appear in films where the humor is dry as prairie dust to be taken seriously? Oh, right--because it's "grown up".

Please.

(Also, I take exception to you attacking my maturity simply because I don't have the same taste in film as you. I've been quite civil and stated a cogent case. Just because I might prefer Sleeper over Annie Hall has no bearing on my maturity. I like hearty, thoughtful laughs--I guess that makes me a man-child.)

IIG

You think so huh? I watched it on Netflix a couple of weeks ago, and I had ordered the Criterion BD from my Amazon phone app before the end credits finished. Unfortunately I then fired up Dark Horse, and that indeed was unwatchable tripe. I like all his other films though.

lamphorn

I would like to see him write actual adult characters someday. All his characters are bizarre child-people and it's becoming a bit creepy.

Supermallet

I didn't say that those characters were man children, although Murray has played those in his career, but it seems like all you want is for him to do the same thing forever.

And by missing the point, I mean you've missed out on all the subtlety and humor (yes, humor) that Murray has brought to his post-Anderson roles.

Perhaps I should have used a different term than grow up. Move on? It sounds like you're stuck in the past to me.

And I'll take Love and Death over both Sleeper and Annie Hall. But then I'll take Manhattan over Annie Hall as well.

inri222

Since TRT he has collaborated on screenplays with Noah Baumbach (The Life Aquatic / Fantastic Mr. Fox),
Roman Coppola (The Darjeeling Limited / Moonrise Kingdom) & Jason Schwartzman (The Darjeeling Limited).
Up to TRT his writing partner was Owen Wilson. From what I have seen I prefer the stuff he wrote with Wilson.
I would like to see him & also Tarantino direct a screenplay that someone else wrote and see what happens.
If you are a good director you can make a different kind of magic. Look at David Cronenberg and what I would call his
"dramas" (The Dead Zone, M. Butterfly, Spider, A History of Violence, Eastern Promises, A Dangerous Method).
He did not write any of those but yet they feel like his but with a different tone.

foofighters7

I bet you like spolosions too, don't cha?

His performances in Anderson's films have been his best of his career. Yeah, if you're a kid then you won't get anything out of his Anderson films yet love his goofy characters of the past.

There is plenty of room to enjoy both, but he got older and smarter and realized he could make people laugh in different roles. Sometimes actors like broadening their horizons. Sometimes you don't want to be the goofball.

And your line about "Wes Anderson can only dream of creating cinematic magic like Reitman and Ramis"...That was just a ridiculous thing to say.

Any one of Anderson's films is superior to anything either of them have done and I actually like some of Ramis' films. Was there memorable characters or lines in their films? Yes. Are they good filmmakers, not really.
I don't think Anderson looks to Ivan Reitman as an inspiration.

inri222

Liked Murray alot in Broken Flowers & The Limits of Control, he should do another film with Jarmusch.

foofighters7

Jarmusch has another film coming out soon which is great. I've been wondering when he was going to get around to it.

PatD

And I bet you're typing this from a coffee shop and wearing a scarf and a beret while sipping a mocha, aren't ya? Let's put a kibosh on the stereotyping.

I'm not so much holding up Ramis and Reitman's *whole* filmography. But Ghostbusters and Groundhog Day are both brilliant comic works. Pitch perfect with comic timing like a swiss watch. In fact, Groundhog Day has the beginnings of more of Murray's seasoned, less goofball side shining through. But, hey, these two movies aren't filled with obscure music tracks and shot in Poser-Vision with each shot composed like a diorama to impress the critics, so...what? They're in the same category as Movie 43?

Has Murray's filmography before 1998 had a lot of shit before going indie? You bet. In fact, I don't blame him entirely for going the route he's gone.(The Man Who Knew to Little, anyone?) But, he has so much more potential than to play the same morose character over and over in Anderson's films. Hell, Lost in Translation, was terrific, because he could be more subdued and keep his impish charm without being laconic to the point of sedate.

I don't like when Murray's a full-on, slob comedy goofball like in Caddyshack, nor his stock character in Anderson's line-up. I prefer the creamy middle of witty mirth.

Dr Mabuse

The internet... endlessly entertaining.

JANK

I know this is a thread for Anderson, who I am a fan of, but here is a Shout Out for Jarmusch!

Hokeyboy

Although I suppose there is some comfort to be taken in safe, formulaic inertia...

Hokeyboy

Until his long-promised "Cheaper By The Dozen 3" finally comes out, Jimmy can go pound sand.

Supermallet

I will say, I think that both Ghostbusters and Groundhog Day are both fantastic films, but to pine for Murray to do that and only that seems silly.