Babel - Pitt, Blanchett & Garcia Bernal in talks to star
10-27-06, 10:17 AM
#26
Saw a preview two days ago. I was a huge fan of Amores Perros, and felt 21 Grams was forced, manipulative, and heavy handed.
I think there are some really great things in Babel, and for the most part enjoyed watching it. My least favorite part of the film was Pitt / Blanchett scenes. The Tokyo story was very good for it's plotlessness, and the Mexican scenes were just visually wonderful.
I do hate the way Innaritu seems to want to give you an emotional epiphany every 5 minutes, again this aspect of the film seemed so heavy-handed. Emotional turmoil can work very well in films, but to have the characters go through it again and again throughout the film just makes me feel like I'm being manipulated.
I think there are some really great things in Babel, and for the most part enjoyed watching it. My least favorite part of the film was Pitt / Blanchett scenes. The Tokyo story was very good for it's plotlessness, and the Mexican scenes were just visually wonderful.
I do hate the way Innaritu seems to want to give you an emotional epiphany every 5 minutes, again this aspect of the film seemed so heavy-handed. Emotional turmoil can work very well in films, but to have the characters go through it again and again throughout the film just makes me feel like I'm being manipulated.
11-01-06, 04:39 PM
#27
DVD Talk Legend
Going to catch an advance showing tonight. I hope it isn't too much of an emotional downer. This movie seems to have shades of last year's Syriana, which I really liked but it really drained me. FWIW, I prefer not to get too mentally drained at movies. I have seen and liked movies like Requeim For a Dream or 21 Grams, but they leave me feeling worse for wear. I hope this one isn't like that.
11-02-06, 06:12 PM
#29
DVD Talk Legend
Having seen it, I'm guessing they went well. The movie was good, but not great IMO. I am not exactly a fan of watching people endure hardship after hardship and getting kicked while they're down. Granted, it had a rather satisfactory ending, but overall not my cup of tea. I cannot deny it was well-made, I just didn't feel any better for having seen it.
FWIW, I thought the scenes with Pitt and Blanchett were among the weakest in the movie. Obviously they were there to help get the funding, and the movie seemed to click better when it focused on the foreign characters.
FWIW, I thought the scenes with Pitt and Blanchett were among the weakest in the movie. Obviously they were there to help get the funding, and the movie seemed to click better when it focused on the foreign characters.
11-03-06, 09:59 PM
#30
DVD Talk Godfather
I thought this movie was better than the (intently) fractured 21 Grams but it seemed a bit heavy-handed. Examples:
Even with that heavy handedness I couldn't grasp the message, at least consciously.
I hope it's something beyond
Like his past movies, this one is broken up into separate stories. Out of all the films, I still like the El Chivo sequence in Amores Perros best. In this one, I feel like I am forced to care about the characters instead of letting me naturally have that feeling.
Still a very good movie and one I'll be seeing again, but it was disappointing on some levels.
Spoiler:
Even with that heavy handedness I couldn't grasp the message, at least consciously.
I hope it's something beyond
Spoiler:
Like his past movies, this one is broken up into separate stories. Out of all the films, I still like the El Chivo sequence in Amores Perros best. In this one, I feel like I am forced to care about the characters instead of letting me naturally have that feeling.
Still a very good movie and one I'll be seeing again, but it was disappointing on some levels.
11-10-06, 06:23 PM
#32
DVD Talk Hero
I thought the tangential subplots held together by a friendly material exchange in a foreign land was a somewhat interesting way to look into how the sense of helplessness and isolation can be derived from stressful situations arising from the lack of effective communication or cultural/political red tape. The main problem is that out of the 4 main subplots, it's the Japanese one that hits home, while the remainder lag behind, and the film as a whole is less than the sum of its parts. Even so, the direction by Inarritu is very good, and the performances are good, some are heartbreaking. The screenplay is where the film falters.
I give it 3 stars or a grade of B.
I give it 3 stars or a grade of B.
11-10-06, 09:47 PM
#33
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I felt it was too broad... a great example of going too far with material without really going anywhere.
The Tokyo scenes were the only ones that, to my eyes, were original, and didn't feel forced. The rest didn't really leave an impression.
The Tokyo scenes were the only ones that, to my eyes, were original, and didn't feel forced. The rest didn't really leave an impression.
11-11-06, 09:50 PM
#34
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
I had high hopes after Amor es Perros and (to a lesser degree) 21 grams, but for the mostpart this fell flat for me. I get it: cultures are different, people speak different languages, etc. Instead of 4 stories all intersecting it just felt like 4 stories, each of which gets only partially told. Maybe that was the point, not sure. I cared the least of all about the weird Tokyo vignette and found the Mexican housekeeper one the most interesting, how
Spoiler:
11-11-06, 10:04 PM
#35
DVD Talk Hero
The Mexican housekeep subplot was just a matter of an urge to witness an (important, but not worth the eventual cost) event trumping pure common sense. That one made me simply angry at the stupidity on display. Given her position, staying in the US was the most prudent choice, but she displayed little foresight.
11-12-06, 07:21 PM
#36
Moderator
Saw it tonight. Loved it. Always glad to see Koji Yakusho. 
11-13-06, 12:32 AM
#38
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Originally Posted by Patman
The Mexican housekeep subplot was just a matter of an urge to witness an (important, but not worth the eventual cost) event trumping pure common sense. That one made me simply angry at the stupidity on display. Given her position, staying in the US was the most prudent choice, but she displayed little foresight.
Spoiler:
BTW, the title maybe should be changed?
11-13-06, 01:09 AM
#39
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Babel - discussion for those who have seen it
Disclaimer: There may be spoilers in this thread! Please leave the thread if you don't want to know them!
Simply put - it was brilliant. Loved the writing, loved the acting, loved the cinematography. And that's all I will say about that. This will not be a typical review. I will assume you know the actors, the director, and the writer. I am more interested in writing about and discussing what I considered the most important aspect of this film - the theme.
First of all, I didn't know much about Babel before other than it was a biblical tower. Reading up on it, what I learned was that the Bible tells of a time in which mankind was united and everyone spoke the same language. At the peak of humanity, the people of Babylon decided to build a tower to the heavens to show off how capable they were. God grew angry at this affront since it was being built out of pride rather than for worshiping Him. So He gave the builders different languages. This inability to communicate led to mistrust and discourse, and led to the scattering of people out into the world and to the tower of Babel never being completed. This is how the Bible explains the existence of different languages and cultures today.
So that was a really interesting piece of information in the context of this movie, where mis-communication and cultural barriers lead to a series of tragic events. What I thought was interesting though was on the surface, the events simply looked like bad luck. And true, some of it was, especially the initial trigger event of a young Moroccan boy shooting at a bus and unintentionally hitting an American tourist. However, the fallout from the initial unintended event was far worse. And yet, the fallout was 100% because of the distrustful nature of man and his failure to question unproven suspicions. What was interesting to me was that none of the suffering or harm in the movie came to people who deserved it. They were all innocent in that none of them deserved to suffer. Here's the thing: the characters in this movie were viewed as moral deviants by other characters in the movie.
American tourist was shot in a predominantly Muslim country - must be a terrorist attack.
Muslim man gave them incorrect information about a suspect - he must be aiding and abetting terrorists.
Two Caucasian kids traveling with two Mexicans across the border - they must be kidnapped.
Mexican woman is an illegal immigrant - does not deserve respect for being a decent human being and for holding another family together.
A Muslim man with a rifle and his two boys are running - they must be guilty.
Japanese school girl makes sexually explicit advances towards men - she must be depraved.
However, as viewers, we had the benefit of having the full scope of the circumstances, so we knew the truth. In real life, we rarely have that wide of a view and so it's easy to see how the truth can easily be missed. Furthermore, these flawed conclusions were reached without the slightest consideration of alternative explanations. Few bother to ever look because it seems that it's easier for most to believe the worst about their fellow man than to place blind trust in them. At the end of this movie, some of the characters receive absolution when they encounter another person who does see past the surface of circumstantial appearances.
Which leads me to what I think is the movie's central message: as humans, we may be doomed to never be able to communicate, however, we can still understand each other if we would just make the smallest effort to look past our initial suspicions.
A powerful, moving film and extraordinarily relevant in today's world. Easily the best film I've seen this year.
Simply put - it was brilliant. Loved the writing, loved the acting, loved the cinematography. And that's all I will say about that. This will not be a typical review. I will assume you know the actors, the director, and the writer. I am more interested in writing about and discussing what I considered the most important aspect of this film - the theme.
First of all, I didn't know much about Babel before other than it was a biblical tower. Reading up on it, what I learned was that the Bible tells of a time in which mankind was united and everyone spoke the same language. At the peak of humanity, the people of Babylon decided to build a tower to the heavens to show off how capable they were. God grew angry at this affront since it was being built out of pride rather than for worshiping Him. So He gave the builders different languages. This inability to communicate led to mistrust and discourse, and led to the scattering of people out into the world and to the tower of Babel never being completed. This is how the Bible explains the existence of different languages and cultures today.
So that was a really interesting piece of information in the context of this movie, where mis-communication and cultural barriers lead to a series of tragic events. What I thought was interesting though was on the surface, the events simply looked like bad luck. And true, some of it was, especially the initial trigger event of a young Moroccan boy shooting at a bus and unintentionally hitting an American tourist. However, the fallout from the initial unintended event was far worse. And yet, the fallout was 100% because of the distrustful nature of man and his failure to question unproven suspicions. What was interesting to me was that none of the suffering or harm in the movie came to people who deserved it. They were all innocent in that none of them deserved to suffer. Here's the thing: the characters in this movie were viewed as moral deviants by other characters in the movie.
American tourist was shot in a predominantly Muslim country - must be a terrorist attack.
Muslim man gave them incorrect information about a suspect - he must be aiding and abetting terrorists.
Two Caucasian kids traveling with two Mexicans across the border - they must be kidnapped.
Mexican woman is an illegal immigrant - does not deserve respect for being a decent human being and for holding another family together.
A Muslim man with a rifle and his two boys are running - they must be guilty.
Japanese school girl makes sexually explicit advances towards men - she must be depraved.
However, as viewers, we had the benefit of having the full scope of the circumstances, so we knew the truth. In real life, we rarely have that wide of a view and so it's easy to see how the truth can easily be missed. Furthermore, these flawed conclusions were reached without the slightest consideration of alternative explanations. Few bother to ever look because it seems that it's easier for most to believe the worst about their fellow man than to place blind trust in them. At the end of this movie, some of the characters receive absolution when they encounter another person who does see past the surface of circumstantial appearances.
Which leads me to what I think is the movie's central message: as humans, we may be doomed to never be able to communicate, however, we can still understand each other if we would just make the smallest effort to look past our initial suspicions.
A powerful, moving film and extraordinarily relevant in today's world. Easily the best film I've seen this year.
Last edited by hahn; 11-14-06 at 12:59 AM.
11-13-06, 10:23 AM
#41
Moderator
given the number times I have seen the trailer (which I am sick of) and I thought 'Amores Perros' was overrated, I think I still want to see this... has there been any word if the eventual DVD release might restore the film to it's original four hour length?
11-13-06, 04:37 PM
#42
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
I agree with your assessment 110%. What a great film and I can't wait for more people to see it. What a phenomenal film, one of my favorite of the year.
11-17-06, 10:31 PM
#45
Moderator
you know I really didn't like the trailer for this... having seen it maybe a dozen times, at least, alot of the story was diminished because what was shown in the trailer. Notably the quick shot of the nanny crying, you knew that story wasn't going to end happily. Also, I thought the Tokyo story felt very forced and didn't really have an emotional outcome.
I thought I had read that early cuts/previews of the film were much longer than what was whittled down for the theatrical release - has anyone else heard/read this.
I thought I had read that early cuts/previews of the film were much longer than what was whittled down for the theatrical release - has anyone else heard/read this.
Last edited by Giles; 11-17-06 at 11:31 PM.
01-12-07, 04:19 AM
#46
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Just come back from seeing this myself. I thought that the Rinko Kukuchi storyline felt a little tacked on and disliked how little it related to the other two stories, but on it's own it was an interesting story and she gave a terrific performance, as did Brad Pitt (the best I've seen him give) and Adriana Barazzi. It also had a few pacing problems but overall, this was the most emotionally complex and moving experience I've had in a theatre in 12 days so far of 2007. I'd rate it 4 stars (on a 5 star scale)
01-20-07, 06:49 PM
#48
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by dpz301
got to see it today on the re-release and really enjoyed it. an international "crash" if you would.
If you didn't get Crash you'd have to be a raging racist, its completely easy. (Not that its bad, just one is playing in the major leagues, the other is playing in the minor leagues).
01-20-07, 08:27 PM
#49
Please do not consider this a threadcrap since we are discussing the film. But I didn't like the film at all. I "got it" or at least got it as much as the OP did.
I think the problem was that there just wasn't enough of a story there to tell. The story that was there wasn't all that original either. There have been movies where people are linked together by a common event.
I felt the movie tried to say something about illegal immigrants and terrorists. Those scenes came off more like cliche as opposed to meaningful. The border patrol agent was simply doing his job. The Mexican guy was drunk and was trying to cross the border into the U.S. That's what is gonna happen. The nanny gets deported, that's what is gonna happen.
I came away feeling that this movie simply showed me how the world works. We do see things from the other perspective but almost everyone is still guilty. The Mexican guy was drunk. The nanny was an illegal. The little Moroccan kids lied to the cops and shot at the bus. Are we supposed to feel for them because we have gotten to know them?
I don't feel sorry when the Moroccan cops beat down people to get information. I do not feel sorry when the nanny gets deported. The only sane one in the movie are the Americans. It's Brad Pitt and Cate Blanchett. That is what I took away from the movie. That America is the only culture with its head on straight.
Not a bad movie, just not a good one. I didn't find it artsy or too preachy or anything I just didn't like it. And it's a shame because 21 Grams was AMAZING.
I think the problem was that there just wasn't enough of a story there to tell. The story that was there wasn't all that original either. There have been movies where people are linked together by a common event.
I felt the movie tried to say something about illegal immigrants and terrorists. Those scenes came off more like cliche as opposed to meaningful. The border patrol agent was simply doing his job. The Mexican guy was drunk and was trying to cross the border into the U.S. That's what is gonna happen. The nanny gets deported, that's what is gonna happen.
I came away feeling that this movie simply showed me how the world works. We do see things from the other perspective but almost everyone is still guilty. The Mexican guy was drunk. The nanny was an illegal. The little Moroccan kids lied to the cops and shot at the bus. Are we supposed to feel for them because we have gotten to know them?
I don't feel sorry when the Moroccan cops beat down people to get information. I do not feel sorry when the nanny gets deported. The only sane one in the movie are the Americans. It's Brad Pitt and Cate Blanchett. That is what I took away from the movie. That America is the only culture with its head on straight.
Not a bad movie, just not a good one. I didn't find it artsy or too preachy or anything I just didn't like it. And it's a shame because 21 Grams was AMAZING.
01-20-07, 10:27 PM
#50
DVD Talk Hero
This is how I felt about the film from seeing it in November, and pretty much still feel the same, and can't really get why it's getting the critical raves it's gotten of late, but it's my opinion that's out of step with the rest, oh well:
I thought the tangential subplots held together by a friendly material exchange in a foreign land was a somewhat interesting way to look into how the sense of helplessness and isolation can be derived from stressful situations arising from the lack of effective communication or cultural/political red tape. The main problem is that out of the 4 main subplots, it's the Japanese one that hits home, while the remaining subplots lag behind, and the film as a whole is less than the sum of its parts. Even so, the direction by Inarritu is very good, and the performances are good, some are heartbreaking. The screenplay is where the film falters.
I give it 3 stars or a grade of B.
I thought the tangential subplots held together by a friendly material exchange in a foreign land was a somewhat interesting way to look into how the sense of helplessness and isolation can be derived from stressful situations arising from the lack of effective communication or cultural/political red tape. The main problem is that out of the 4 main subplots, it's the Japanese one that hits home, while the remaining subplots lag behind, and the film as a whole is less than the sum of its parts. Even so, the direction by Inarritu is very good, and the performances are good, some are heartbreaking. The screenplay is where the film falters.
I give it 3 stars or a grade of B.