Why So Blu?

Yeah, and Mann sued Friedkin for it, too. I think it's unfounded. The only thing that I could see that may have been influenced by it were the early publicity shots of Petersen looking "fly." Of course, in the film, he's not. Eric Masters is. Miami Vice always had more flash than balls but I have not watched that show in years, so can't name specifics. To Live and Die in L.A. is gritty as fuck.

brayzie

I just saw this.
Man, I was really disappointed. I just didn't buy William Peterson as the cool, reckless secret service agent. Peterson always seems like a square to me. Someone with more intensity would have been a better choice for the role. Him saying "amigo" randomly just felt like some stereotypical 80s cop vernacular. It didn't seem like people would really talk like that.
John Pankow was cool but it seemed like he should have had more/better dialogue and scenes.

I was hoping to see more of 80s Los Angeles like as it's portrayed in The Terminator and American Gigolo but instead it was all the industrial, run down parts of the city. I read that was a stylistic choice of the director's. In fact, the 80s-ness was very understated outside of anything related to Rick Masters (clothing, car, homes). The soundtrack or score was kind of cheesy and I would have preferred something grittier and serious. Giorgio Moroder for example.

The film dragged but once we got the high speed chase, shit got exciting real quick. Now I see why Friedkin is so well-regarded for creating the car-chase in film. I got nervous watching things unfold. When more and more guys started popping up, chasing the two agents, bringing out uzis...I was thinking what the hell have these guys gotten themselves into? It was intense and a great part of the film.

Willem Dafoe was a delight to watch as Rick Masters. He was definitely the best part of the film.

The film felt at first like a traditional, hard boiled cop getting revenge for the death of his old partner. Then BOOM! our "hero" gets a hole in his face. After reading reviews of the film, I guess we're supposed to see that Masters and Chance are very much alike. They jeopardize those around them for their own selfish reasons. Masters kills people who pose a threat to him or cross him. Chance blackmails people and gets people killed in his quest to get Masters, like the undercover agent. I don't feel like the film conveyed that well enough.

Mondo Kane

^Did you see the alternate ending?

brayzie

I'm watching that one right now. It's silly. How do you get an FBI agent killed and you only get relocated?

I thought the alternate ending was supposed to be Pankow's character getting shot. That would have been good too.

On paper, I like the cool, reckless, talking shit hero getting his comeuppance in the end. He wasn't a good guy at all, and his relationship with his snitch was some #metoo shit. Chance getting a shotgun to the face is very subversive to audience expectations. The cool action hero cop that breaks rules to get shit done, all that shit catches up with him, and we realize, oh shit, he was a bad guy too and got what was coming to him. But again, if that's what Friedkin was going for, Peterson and the dialogue for his character didn't convey that well. The whole time it seemed like Peterson's character was trying to hard with his swagger.

OldBoy

i agree. really wanted to like it, got the SE blu that recently came out. have yet to get to again, but remember not wowed first time and didn't buy Peterson. I really didn't like him as Will Graham either, but did like the first few seasons of CSI and some bit parts he did in movies once in awhile...

davidlynchfan

Why So Blu?

This is one of the best films of the 1980's. Fact.

james2025a

It's a solid movie and one of the best from Friedkin. I personally love the soundtrack by Wang Chung, and the opening music is great. It replays during the scene where Masters makes the counterfeit money and that scene for me is fantastic. Shot and edited so well. I was thinking just last week (after rewatching Shadow of the Vampire) that Willem Dafoe is without a doubt one of my favorite actors. He is always top notch.

Paff

I was late to discover this movie too (sometime within the last 10 years) but I think it's amazing. A friend of mine and I argue about it a lot; he thinks there should be a more positive ending for Pankow's character rather than take over for Petersen's which seems to be the implication. But to me it's exactly what the title is saying: To live and die in LA. There's a vicious circle going on. You start out as a wide-eyed, honest cop, but the job taints you and eventually kills you. That's Chance from the beginning to the end of the movie, and it looks like Vukovich will go down that same road. And after he dies, someone else will do the exact same thing.

It really is a great piece of filmmaking from one of America's most underrated directors. Yes, he got acclaim for The French Connection and The Exorcist, but his film output is so much more than that, and he should have had way more box office smashes than he has.

inri222

The Exorcist
The French Connection
Sorcerer
Cruising
To Live and Die in LA
Bug
Killer Joe
The Boys in the Band

Are all excellent films.

I also like Rampage, but that one is hit or miss with some people.

davidlynchfan

I usually get Friedkin's output mixed up with John Frankenheimer's but both are underrated greats for sure.

d2cheer

Correct.





Same here.

james2025a

I actually find Frankenheimers stuff generally rather poor. Ronin and the Fourth War being exceptions. I know that he was seen very much like a Ron Howard in the fact that he could play by the studio rules and get the job done in time and on budget. Just don't expect masterpieces.

inri222

IMO Seconds, The Manchurian Candidate, Seven Days In May, The Train & Birdman Of Alcatraz are probably Frankenheimer's best.

I also like Black Sunday & 52 Pick-Up

GoldenJCJ

Nick Danger

I wonder if the people who think Peterson was miscast think that because their perception of Peterson is colored by CSI, which he did years later.

davidlynchfan

DWilson

I became aware of Peterson because of "To Live and Die" and "Manhunter" and thought of him as a darker, quirkier actor and was surprised when he started doing more generic roles later on

james2025a

I knew of Petersen from Manhunter originally, then this movie, then CSI. I think it helped me appreciate him more in CSI and seeing it the other way around i might have had a harder time accepting him in those earlier roles. Its interesting watching the making of To Live and Die in LA where Friedkin and Petersen discuss the little tiff with Michael Mann about the movie and it was clear that both directors saw big things for the actor. I also like the story they tell of the scene where Chance runs through the airport and he jumps the rail to run along it to catch John Tuturros character. They fact they had been told specifically not to do it and Friedking told Petersen to do it anyway and pretend he had been told or understood. Thats what film making is about, catching the moments and some times breaking the rules to achieve the shot.

Paff

Thanks. I looked up The Train, and it seems like a movie I'd enjoy. Added it to my Netflix queue (yes, I still get Blus and DVDs in the mail)

brayzie

So is this film like in your guys' top 10/top 20 for 80s films? The film definitely has a lot of flavor to it, but I can think of 20 better films from that decade. I will however be checking out The French Connection and more of Friedkin's catalog.
A YouTube reviewer said that the director of Year of the Dragon and this one were 70s directors doing 80s films, and that's why the protagonists in both films aren't necessarily "heroes" but instead morally compromised people. I thought that was interesting and I like the shades of gray storytelling that results from that approach.


I'm pretty sure I first saw Peterson in Manhunter when it was rereleased as a 2-disc DVD in 2001. I didn't think he was that great in that film either. Not bad, but the scene where he realizes something of the Toothfairy: "You son of a bitch! You were watching them, weren't you!" I thought the delivery was cheesy, and also the way Lekter supposedly got into his mind and he had to leave the jail facility to get some air or throw up...it just didn't seem like something that would make you question your sanity. The director and actor could have done a better job to show why profiling serial killers had taken a psychological toll on Graham. Overall though, Manhunter was more enjoyable than Red Dragon, save for the ending.

What's so big about jumping the rail though?

Paff

Dunno. Give it a shot next time you're at an airport, and report back to us.

Seriously though, it wasn't like a huge stunt, but it was a stunt nonetheless, and LAX would have probably wanted to have insurance approvals and all that crap, rather than Petersen just doing it the way they did.

Mabuse

brayzie

brayzie