Superboy

...It's late (or early, depending on your point of view...but then again, a wise man once said that many of the things we hold to be true are only so from a certain point of view.)

When I walked out of Episode I on opening day, I was confused. I didn't know what to think. The first time I saw the Star Wars Trilogy was in theaters during the re-release. I marveled at them, but I honestly didn't think they were such hot movies. I fell asleep several times during ANH, during the many, many, boring parts. ESB was great, but it felt so contrived at certain points. The love story between Han and Leia developed over the course of...what...a week? when they both have way more important things to be worried about? how did Luke develop Force powers early in the movie when he didn't have any real training at that point, let alone any knowledge of the Jedi other than his brief encounter with Ben, and at that point, he didn't even know what the Force was truly capable of. It seemed like Vader was never meant to be Luke's father - there's nothing in ANH to suggest it. Yoda was a great character...i'll continue that when I discuss EPII. I was really disappointed with ROTJ, and how much of it was a total rehash of elements from ANH and ESB. It almost seemed like they needed 2 movies to wrap up all the plot elements from ESB, given the huge set-up.

Now for the prequels. I heard relentless trashing of Episode I after it's release. I honestly didn't know what the big deal was. There were elements that I didn't like about the movie, and I felt that most of the criticisms lobbied at the movie by horrendously overzealous die-hard Star Wars fans could also be used against the OT - bad dialogue, poor pacing, discordant/contrived plot, over reliance on action sequences (however well done they may be) and special effects to wow audiences, etc etc. To me, the worst part of the Prequels were that they tried too hard to be Star Wars movie, and didn't capture the same feel as the OT. Jar-jar didn't sting as bad as he did for others, I could honestly see what Lucas was trying to do with him. The lightsaber battles I enjoyed in that Lucas was really doing some good genre -blending with The Duel - it's motif is more valuable than the actual action that it offered. The brief and contained space battle was a great moment, trying to show us that Star Wars can give us something as grand and exciting as a titanic battle yet still maintain some air of intimacy with the characters involved. TPM also had a very romantic feel to it, in the strict literary sense of the word, that is.

Most SW fans enjoyed AOTC much more than TPM, but I honestly did not enjoy the movie. I felt like Lucas was trying to craft a world that was almost totally alien to audiences who had grown accustomed to seeing the Empire and Rebellion, and now was abandoning that in favor of more familiar territory. Yoda was a great character to have, and I honestly didn't mind his lightsaber battle. I mean c'mon, the guy's a freaking muppet! and he acted quite strange and eccentric in ESB, something about him that I adored.

The deep, romantic feelings that TPM conjured were lost in this movie, it's sets much more mechanical and austere in design. The transition from the lush forests of Naboo to the dusty desert planet of Genosis, from the sleek and finely crafted N-1 Starfighter to the more rugged utilitarian Jedi Starfighter, from the utopian and 2001/Kubrick-esque Coruscant to a more BladeRunner/Ridley Scott-esque Coruscant really ruined the movie for me. The battles in the movie felt empty and detached, perhaps intentionally so as to convey the emotional value of clones, but it doesn't compare to even the tiniest bits of action in TPM. We don't know these characters - we don't know who they are or what their motivations are. And watching dozens of tiny drones charge at each other is hardly entertaining. The movie just felt empty and if I might say so, not like a Star Wars movie at all.

Still, I do look forward to Episode III. I don't expect it to answer all my questions (why Qui-gon is cremated, who the hell Darth Maul was, etc), but I do expect it to bridge the gap between two almost wholly separate universes.

renaldow

Just curious, how do you get that their relationship developed over the course of about a week?

Get Me Coffee

The one thing that I disliked about the prequels is the lack of memorable quotes.

Panda Phil

I agree with the first half of your comments, but I had an almost opposite reaction to Pts 1 and 2. For me it was the first film that missed the mark. The annoyance factor of Jar Jar, the young Anakin's horrible acting skills, the lack of any development whatsoever for Darth Maul, and the way the film ground to a complete hault once they landed on Tatooine. The first ten minutes and the lightsabre battle at the end were pretty much the films only saving grace for me.

AOTC however to me at least made the prequel universe seem a lot more real and interesting. A place I wanted to know more about. I honestly don't quite understand your gripes about the film. The wide variety of worlds shown is one of the things that made the film more interesting to me. And I thought the battles were just fine. C'mon, the heroes are chained in the middle of an alien collosium to fight for their lives. That a scene straight out of a pulp SF story, and that's pretty much what SW is at heart.

As the the major battle, I found it a lot more exciting and interesting than the finales or either TPM or even RotJ.

(Hoping this doesn't turn into yet another "George Lucas raped my childhood!" thread.)

Dr. DVD

George Luca$ raped my childhood!!!!





Not really.

My thoughts: the PT is inferior to the OT, but when it all boils down, not by that much. ESB was exceptional, and I enjoyed both ANH and ROTJ. FWIW, the only major fault with the PT is not the storyline or flow, but the acting. The level of acting in the OT was never much to write home about, but at least the cheesy lines were being delivered with a bit of believability (save for Mark Hamill). The PT's acting eas spotty at best. Yoda was good, but he was a puppet and CGI effect. Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregor, and Ian McDiarmid all did solid jobs, and Ewan truly was Obi-Wan in AOTC. Jake Lloyd, considering he was only about nine or ten when they did the movie, did about what you would expect. However, Natalie Portman and Hayden Christensen's was beyond bad. It wouldn't have been so excruciating if it weren't for the fact that they were the two leads! Making it even worse is the fact that I have seen them do other roles and they have the ability to deliver a good, and sometimes exceptional performance. Lucas just doesn't put acting that high on his priority list as much as getting the project to post-production so he can start his tinkering.
The second real gripe I have with the PT is overkill with CGI. Part of the wonder of watching the OT was knowing that they were working, for the most part, with real objects and sets and then learning how they built them. The CGI seems like an immediate answer to everything and removes a lot of the wonder, not to mention old feeling. While the CG in TPM was used quite well, I honestly felt like I was watching a PC game at the end of AOTC.
Don't get me wrong, the PT does deliver the goods at times, I just have to use my skip button a lot more than I would like. When put together, I am sure we will have what GL was wanting to make all along. Problem is, was what he wanted really what we wanted?

DonnachaOne

The following is a symbol for just how bad the prequels are.



"Hey, you want some DEATH STICKS?"

1. Terrible Writing
2. Childish handling of subject material
3. Stupid minor characters
4. Wasting the talents of good actors

... just for a taster

Rogue588

Dr. DVD

You forgot the name of the character: Elan Sleazbaggano (or something like that, no kidding).

DonnachaOne

I didn't actually; I just factored that into "bad writing" and "stupid minor charcaters".

Panda Phil

Funny, I seem to recall people saying the same things about ANH way back when.

Too many fans IMO have viewing the original trilogy through rose-colred glasses these past 25 years. Setting standards that can't possibly be fulfilled.

Get Me Coffee

The problem is that DonnachaOne didn't like that parts, so why is that wrong?

Superboy

Yoda: Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering!

Count Dooku: (sarcastically) This has all been some terrible mistake!

But I agree, it did lack quotable lines...and I think Lucas was trying a bit too hard to make more. I won't go any further to keep it from turning into a PT-bash-fest.

PixyJunket

Which were both prominent in the original trilogy as well.

silentbob007

Like that big, annoying golden droid ...

Toad

While the OT is no masterpiece (some of the writing in ANH is just atrocious), I agree with the original poster that the prequels seem almost foreign to me as an OT fan and past audience member.

I think this comes from a multitude of things, like:
1. Lucas is trying to be ultra creative and graphics-savvy
2. Lucas set out to create a new Star Wars universe for a new generation of fans
3. Lucas wasn't creative at all actually, this is just the best we got

I tend to think it's a combo of 1 and 2. He was trying to do things technologically-advanced for the sake of doing them and showing them - not for the sake of story. Further, he created this for a different generation - not the SW fans of old.

Superboy

Ah, now this is the kind of comment I like to see. I did enjoy the "strange, yet familiar" feel that the PT gave off - I think re-treading old territory would have made them feel old and tired.

PopcornTreeCt

I think the movies are just a sign of the times. Both were made to be children's movies. The only difference is the original trilogy didnt turn out like any.

ckolchak

all Faults of rotj too

Superboy

Well, this thread hasn't gone down the crapper yet so I guess, here goes - some "issues" I had with the prequels:

I always thought the lightsaber training scene in ANH with the droid aboard the Millenium Falcon was just an exercise that Obi-wan jerry-rigged on the spot, but later, seeing the Jedi training all future Jedis in this manner really cheapens the moment for me. It was another moment of the prequels riding on the novelty of the SWU.

Speaking of training...I honestly didn't think that Jedi Knights would be selected at such an early age - despite what Yoda says in ESB. And after watching the OT, I thought that anyone could learn to be a Jedi Knight, and it wasn't limited to someone with a high Midichlorian count. In which case, what would the Jedi do if they met someone who was exceptionally strong with the force, yet didn't do anything about it, good or bad? the Jedi Temple now seems less like a monestary and more like a Hitler Youth Camp.

The prequel world doesn't feel as dirty and homely as the OT world. In the DVDtalk review, he states that one of the best aspects of the SWU is the "lived-in" feel, and I agree. There's really none of that in the prequels - even the scenes on Tatooine look like sets.

I had a hard time buying the Fetts as major characters. It seemed like Lucas just wanted to please the legions of fans of a minor character with no personality.

kcbrett5

I like these.


From Phantom Menace:
Obi-Wan : I have a bad feeling about this.

Qui-Gon Jinn : The ability to speak does not make you intelligent.

Queen Amidala : I was not elected to watch my people suffer and die while you discuss this invasion in a committee!

From AOTC:
Palpatine : I see you becoming the greatest of all the Jedi, Anakin. Even more powerful than Master Yoda.

Anakin : One day, I will become the greatest Jedi EVER. I will even learn how to stop people from dying.

kcbrett5

I am confused by this. So you are annoyed that the prequels were consistent with ESB? Luke was young. Yoda said he was too old to begin. It's very clear from that dialogue that Jedi's are trained early.

I am used to all the bashing of Lucas for not being consistent with the originals. But now we are going to bash him because he IS consistent???

Give me a break.

DodgingCars

I think there are two reasons that I like the OT 10 times better than I'll ever like the new ones...

Nostalgia
Good characters (I just don't seem to care about any of the characters in the prequels.)

Fok

When will the madness end!?

I agree, nostalgia does make the OT more appealing.

Jackskeleton

But does that make up for the cheesiness that people are complaining about that was just the same in the OT as it was in the prequels?

I think we may hate it as adults, but the youth growing up now will love them just as much as we love the OT when they grow up.

Get Me Coffee

Like I said "lack of memorable quotes" And those quotes you listed are pure crap.