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Some good news for Disney/Pixar, bad news for 2D animation

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Some good news for Disney/Pixar, bad news for 2D animation

Old 06-03-04, 03:59 PM
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Some good news for Disney/Pixar, bad news for 2D animation

From IMDB:

Disney CEO Michael Eisner intimated Wednesday that he would like to reopen negotiations with Pixar Animation Studios to bring the company back in its fold. "I will not believe it is over until it is over," he told a Sanford Bernstein & Co. investor's conference. He suggested, however, that the ball was in Pixar's court. "I have always felt from day one that it is in Pixar's best interests to continue with the Disney company," he said. "We can only make half the deal. I am just an eternal optimist." Eisner showed no such optimism about hand-drawn animation, however. "The 2-D [hand-drawn] business is coming to an end, just like black and white came to an end," he said.
Old 06-03-04, 04:15 PM
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So does this mean he's going to give Pixar the offer they wanted?

I assume he means 2D theatrical features, 2D is alive and doing very well on TV still.
Old 06-03-04, 04:35 PM
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I love 2-D and it is BS when they say it's done with; in a proper manner than serves the story it can still thrive. I like finding Nemo and Shrek, but CGI too me is sometimes too cold and still doesn't feel alive. Look at Fantasia Aladdin and Lion King and Jungle Book-still holds up extremely well and is still rich with life (alothough LK and Aladdin has some computer elements).

B&W isn't dead. Look at Ed Wood, Coffee and Cigarettes, the intro to Van Helsing, it just needs to serve the story. If you are going to use color then use it. I can't imagine Braveheart, Spiderman, or LotR in B&W, but some movies would have benefitted from it like Sleepy hollow and hell, Van Helsing would have been all too sweet in all B&W.

None of these styles are dead-you must know when to use them properly.
Old 06-03-04, 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by jonpeters
B&W isn't dead. Look at Ed Wood, Coffee and Cigarettes, the intro to Van Helsing, it just needs to serve the story.
I believe Eisner is talking about B&W animated films. Once the technology became available to make color toons, B&W went bye-bye.

But I don't agree with him about 2D animated features. It's not the 2D that is killing Disney. It is:

A) Eisner and his mishandling of the company
B) Crappy stories for the last few feature animated films
Old 06-03-04, 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by Morf
I believe Eisner is talking about B&W animated films. Once the technology became available to make color toons, B&W went bye-bye.

But I don't agree with him about 2D animated features. It's not the 2D that is killing Disney. It is:

A) Eisner and his mishandling of the company
B) Crappy stories for the last few feature animated films
C.) Subbing out cheap labor to make cheap sequels.
Old 06-03-04, 06:42 PM
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If any of Pixar's movies had been 2D handdrawn, I don't think they'd been any less successful....because they're all great stories.

What Eisner's missing is that most of the 2D stuff coming out of there house in the past few years has been crap.
Old 06-03-04, 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by Morf
But I don't agree with him about 2D animated features. It's not the 2D that is killing Disney. It is:

A) Eisner and his mishandling of the company
B) Crappy stories for the last few feature animated films


They need another 20 year hiatus until someone comes up with something truly interesting again.
Old 06-03-04, 08:09 PM
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These are the same 'tards who say or basically THINK animation is a genre and not a medium.

An audience is either with a movie or not, they don't care whether the animation is done on computers or by hand. Either they like the story and the artwork or they don't.

Eisner is covering his ass, which in his position is a big part of his job right now. Even Pixar has said they still think 2-D is viable.
Old 06-03-04, 08:36 PM
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I would like to see Pixar expand their studios to do some 2D animation features. They don't need Disney. And they can show Disney that all it takes is a good story and vision, not the medium. I don't think I would have liked The Hunchback of Notre Dame more if it was in 3D.
Old 06-03-04, 10:43 PM
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I completely agree with the sentiment displayed here. What exactly gives Eisner the impression that 2d is dead? Because most of the 2d films of recent haven't performed well? Perhaps because...well...they weren't any good? Lilo and Stictch should be enough evidence that if you make a decent movie, people will go watch it. But the movie has to at least be something people want to watch...blame the movies, not the medium. Consideirng that 2d animation has, to this point, generated basically musicals and family comedies, I'd say it's a format that has tons of potential. unfortunately, Disney doesn't seem to realize that.

Do you hear that sound? It's Walt Disney rolling over in his grave. What a shame Eisner is to the name Disney.
Old 06-04-04, 12:20 AM
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Eisner just needs to go.

How he doesnt outrage more investors by bad mouthing the very thing that made Disney what it is shocks me.
Old 06-04-04, 01:58 AM
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Originally posted by UAIOE
Eisner just needs to go.

How he doesnt outrage more investors by bad mouthing the very thing that made Disney what it is shocks me.
No kidding I don't understand why there isn't more hatred for Eisner from within. Because not only is he folding the very thing that made Disney what it is, but it's HIS fault that 2d animation has been such a failure in recent years. First he runs the format into the ground with cheap 2nd rate stuff, then he says its dead. It's dead cause you've been beating it with a stick for the last 10 years...geesh.
Old 06-04-04, 07:34 AM
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no worry here...

i still got my trusted Japanese animator for the 2-D animation... they've been kicking Disney's ass for the longest time anyway
Old 06-04-04, 01:35 PM
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I don't have a problem with anime but the problem with Disney is that thier animation is either bad (some more recent stuff) or they are very selfish with releasing their good stuff.

I wish Roy all the luck with trying to out Eisner.
Old 06-04-04, 01:37 PM
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Wow we almost had a Disney thread without the "Anime is teh R0xx0rS! D1$N3y blows! Japan>america"

Last edited by RyoHazuki; 06-04-04 at 09:01 PM.
Old 06-04-04, 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by RyoHazuki
Wow we almost had a Disney thread without the "Anime is R0xx0rS! D1$N3y blows! Japan>america"
You forgot to put "teh" in there somewhere.
Old 06-04-04, 01:45 PM
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Japanese animation is a great substitute for Disney films, that is until there's a scene of a crowd or something that requires more than 2 animated figures to be drawn at once, japanese jokes and culture don't translate and we are left sratching our heads, the tentacles come out and start raping school girls, poop starts talking, everybody seems to moph into some animal monster, and everytime a character does an action they have to call it out "Super Happy Monster Kicking Attack!"
Old 06-04-04, 02:08 PM
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mmconhea, you're opening up a dangerous can of worms! However, let me add that while I no longer like anime (in fact, I rather despise it) I still think some of the (stand-alone) theatrical features are worth checking out.
Old 06-04-04, 03:02 PM
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I agree with every sentiment here. On a recent trip to MGM studios in Orlando it was very sad to see the animation studios tour what it was. It used to be a place you could go to take a short tour and see all the animators busy at their stations and see all their figures that they had around their desk. Now all the blinds are down and the whole place has a deserted feel to it. They still have a video about how they animate things but it all seems so pointless. And do you know what they are turning it into? Offices?! Freakin' leased out offices where some of the greates art was created. Truly sad.

A separate attraction was all about Walt and his history and legacy with the company. Guess who introduced and narrated the video. Yes that's right. I boo'd him but I don't know if anyone else knows what he has done to the company in recent years.
Old 06-04-04, 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by PixyJunket
mmconhea, you're opening up a dangerous can of worms! However, let me add that while I no longer like anime (in fact, I rather despise it) I still think some of the (stand-alone) theatrical features are worth checking out.
I know, I wouldn't know all that stuff without having been a fan of Anime myself.

My point is: Japanese Animation, no matter how good some of them are now, no substitute for some American-made hand drawn animation, like Disney's.
Old 06-04-04, 08:53 PM
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At least the japanese public accepts animation as a medium for adult stories. I've always thought that Western animation was capable of so much more if the animators were just given a chance to express themselves without some executive breathing down their neck. I like anime but enjoy rare western gems like Batman the animated series much more.
Old 06-04-04, 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by PixyJunket
You forgot to put "teh" in there somewhere.
Its been fixed.
Old 06-05-04, 03:38 AM
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I would doubt Pixar would even want to be apart of Disney anymore. Once they get the taste of green in their mouth when they have control over their own properties, they will want to remain independent.
Old 06-05-04, 03:38 AM
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I would doubt Pixar would even want to be apart of Disney anymore. Once they get the taste of green in their mouth when they have control over their own properties, they will want to remain independent.
Old 06-05-04, 03:38 AM
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I would doubt Pixar would even want to be apart of Disney anymore. Once they get the taste of green in their mouth when they have control over their own properties, they will want to remain independent.

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