Ending of Gus van Sant's Elephant SPOILERS
05-24-04, 03:49 PM
#26
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Originally posted by Duder
it's that when I'm introduced to a named character and I follow him around for 5 minutes of movie time, I expect there to be some reason for it . . . but he just walks, walks, walks, and then stands there for a second after the shooter turns to him. It was disappointing because the character, as written, was a waste of my time.
it's that when I'm introduced to a named character and I follow him around for 5 minutes of movie time, I expect there to be some reason for it . . . but he just walks, walks, walks, and then stands there for a second after the shooter turns to him. It was disappointing because the character, as written, was a waste of my time.
The homosexual issue would have been much more powerful if left as a subtle nuance, instead it was completely played out for shock value -- a total reversal of the films themes!
The piano/video game sequence would have been fantastic insight into the psyche of the character if they had just stuck with the piano and left the video game out (again, SLAP the audience in the face with mainstream paranoia).
I understand that life is boring for the most part. But the walking/walking/walking sequences with each character could have been put to much better use than to simply fill screen time.
As it stands, the only scene that fully held any power (IMO) was when the shooters walked by a kid outside the school and told him to get out of there. This scene was very low key but poignant, which is what the rest of the film was trying to accomplish but failed.
05-24-04, 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by cygnet74
the first half of elephant went to great lengths to single out characters wearing red. it was a visual metaphor that raised questions in the audience's collective mind as to the characters' fates -- will students in red be killed or spared?
the first half of elephant went to great lengths to single out characters wearing red. it was a visual metaphor that raised questions in the audience's collective mind as to the characters' fates -- will students in red be killed or spared?
06-15-04, 06:04 PM
#28
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So this may be a little late, but I just watched Elephant for the first time and didn't want to make a new thread.
I wish we'd have had more than when it just ended. The aftermath would have been interesting as well, although maybe that would have been pushing these actors/actresses. I agree with an above poster who said that the movie was trying to be low key and poignant, but fails.
The stereotypes are overdone, the subtle societal observations are not as suttle as they should have been. Not a horrible movie, but it's not one that I'd watch again. At the end I was wondering what point he was trying to get across.
I wish we'd have had more than when it just ended. The aftermath would have been interesting as well, although maybe that would have been pushing these actors/actresses. I agree with an above poster who said that the movie was trying to be low key and poignant, but fails.
The stereotypes are overdone, the subtle societal observations are not as suttle as they should have been. Not a horrible movie, but it's not one that I'd watch again. At the end I was wondering what point he was trying to get across.
06-15-04, 06:14 PM
#29
DVD Talk Special Edition
Strange I just watched this last night and I would have to agree with what T said, as well as those concerning its failings at not really being much of a movie. I wish it hadn't ended so abruptly also.
06-15-04, 06:47 PM
#30
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I disagree with your observation that the stereotypes are overdone. I graduated from high school in ‘03 and the stereotypes were actually quite accurate. I graduated from a school that was pretty country--it was in the middle of a cornfield in the Midwest.
I graduated with the children of engineers, factory workers, and the usual assortment, with a few farming families. The athlete stereotype presented by the boy in the red lifeguard hoodie is very accurate.
There were no gay people in my high school so I can't comment on that portrayal. The two shooters are reminiscent of several people I can recall: quiet and withdrawn. I never really saw any bullying or violence in school though. Different cliques left eachother alone or coexisted just fine. I graduated with a class just over 150 so it was a pretty small school. I think van Sant captured the personalities very well--which is an amazing fete considering the age gap.
Regarding the ending, I thought it was appropriate if a disappointment just because you crave to know more. I think if the aftermath had been explored it would have taken away from the neutrality the film took.
I recently watched Manic and it, too, had an abrupt and ambiguous ending that was unsettling but makes sense for what the film was trying to capture.
I think what it comes down to is that these movies aren’t designed to please an audience or toy with them. While they of course want an audience to enjoy the movie, you have to do it on an artistic, intelligent, and ultimately more-engaging level. Not that other movies are lesser, they just must be viewed on a different level. For example Shrek was much easier to view and understand and was a delight to watch.
I graduated with the children of engineers, factory workers, and the usual assortment, with a few farming families. The athlete stereotype presented by the boy in the red lifeguard hoodie is very accurate.
There were no gay people in my high school so I can't comment on that portrayal. The two shooters are reminiscent of several people I can recall: quiet and withdrawn. I never really saw any bullying or violence in school though. Different cliques left eachother alone or coexisted just fine. I graduated with a class just over 150 so it was a pretty small school. I think van Sant captured the personalities very well--which is an amazing fete considering the age gap.
Regarding the ending, I thought it was appropriate if a disappointment just because you crave to know more. I think if the aftermath had been explored it would have taken away from the neutrality the film took.
I recently watched Manic and it, too, had an abrupt and ambiguous ending that was unsettling but makes sense for what the film was trying to capture.
I think what it comes down to is that these movies aren’t designed to please an audience or toy with them. While they of course want an audience to enjoy the movie, you have to do it on an artistic, intelligent, and ultimately more-engaging level. Not that other movies are lesser, they just must be viewed on a different level. For example Shrek was much easier to view and understand and was a delight to watch.
06-15-04, 11:24 PM
#31
DVD Talk Legend
I wanted to see more of John and the photographer, I was a little let down that it ended without us knowing what happened to the photographer.
Although I did see the 'art' in the movie, it may have been too much. I can only watch people walk for so long before I get antsy, with little to no payoff each time.
Although I did see the 'art' in the movie, it may have been too much. I can only watch people walk for so long before I get antsy, with little to no payoff each time.
06-18-04, 02:25 AM
#32
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Just watched this a couple of nights ago. I really liked it. For those of you who were looking for a point - I'm not sure there really was one. Not in the sense of providing the viewers with an answer anyways. I think the whole purpose of the film was just to get you to ponder why these two boys did what they did, and to get you to feel the fear and tension of the other students as they slowly realize what's happening (it took a while for it to sink in with quite a few people even AFTER they heard gunshots). I think the point, if there IS one to make, was to have the viewers relive the experience of the students.
I don't know about you, but I was pretty damn tense while watching it. The close up shots, the not knowing if they were going to be around the next corner. The way those 2 boys slowly and relentlessly marched through the school with absolutely no sign of remorse or sympathy. I was chilled to the bone.
I don't know about you, but I was pretty damn tense while watching it. The close up shots, the not knowing if they were going to be around the next corner. The way those 2 boys slowly and relentlessly marched through the school with absolutely no sign of remorse or sympathy. I was chilled to the bone.
06-18-04, 02:04 PM
#33
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by Tarantino
, I was a little let down that it ended without us knowing what happened to the photographer.
, I was a little let down that it ended without us knowing what happened to the photographer.
06-18-04, 03:57 PM
#34
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally posted by MikeD03C
There were no gay people in my high school so I can't comment on that portrayal.
There were no gay people in my high school so I can't comment on that portrayal.
06-19-04, 12:02 PM
#36
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by Matt Millheiser
He was shot in the library, either before or after the introverted girl. He snaps a picture of one of the killers, who (in the next shot) turns and shoots him. You never see the bullet impact but it's definitely implied that photo-boy buys it.
He was shot in the library, either before or after the introverted girl. He snaps a picture of one of the killers, who (in the next shot) turns and shoots him. You never see the bullet impact but it's definitely implied that photo-boy buys it.
06-21-04, 06:58 AM
#37
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There is no evidence in the film that Eli (the photographer) lives or dies. There is a panning shot in that scene from the shooter's POV, that shows two people getting shot in the vicinity where Eli was standing. Neither person is Eli.
Good movie. Not great, but good.
They did a good job at capturing a typical mundane day of high school (prior to the rampage). Made it all the more poignant for me.
Good movie. Not great, but good.
They did a good job at capturing a typical mundane day of high school (prior to the rampage). Made it all the more poignant for me.
11-20-04, 12:31 PM
#38
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by Tarantino
Are you sure? He takes a picture of the guys and one of the killers looks straight at him, then just ignores him. I didn't catch it ever imply that he bit it.
Are you sure? He takes a picture of the guys and one of the killers looks straight at him, then just ignores him. I didn't catch it ever imply that he bit it.
Just watched this the other night - I really liked how he put together a few sequences, particularly the camerawork and the accompanying music. Other than that though, I didn't really care for it - it was just sort of...bleh.
11-20-04, 04:43 PM
#39
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I just pulled out my copy of the film for the entire "Does Eli bite it or not?" debate.
It is clear that Eli, does in fact, dies during the climax/conclusion of the film. At 01:07:12 (right after Michelle is shot), Alex clearly shoots at Eli from a far and we see Eli fall down.
It is clear that Eli, does in fact, dies during the climax/conclusion of the film. At 01:07:12 (right after Michelle is shot), Alex clearly shoots at Eli from a far and we see Eli fall down.
11-20-04, 10:03 PM
#40
Originally posted by B.A.
[B
Just watched this the other night - I really liked how he put together a few sequences, particularly the camerawork and the accompanying music. Other than that though, I didn't really care for it - it was just sort of...bleh. [/B]
[B
Just watched this the other night - I really liked how he put together a few sequences, particularly the camerawork and the accompanying music. Other than that though, I didn't really care for it - it was just sort of...bleh. [/B]
11-20-04, 10:47 PM
#41
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by Matthew Chmiel
I just pulled out my copy of the film for the entire "Does Eli bite it or not?" debate.
It is clear that Eli, does in fact, dies during the climax/conclusion of the film. At 01:07:12 (right after Michelle is shot), Alex clearly shoots at Eli from a far and we see Eli fall down.
I just pulled out my copy of the film for the entire "Does Eli bite it or not?" debate.
It is clear that Eli, does in fact, dies during the climax/conclusion of the film. At 01:07:12 (right after Michelle is shot), Alex clearly shoots at Eli from a far and we see Eli fall down.
11-21-04, 05:12 AM
#42
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Wasn't the black guy supposed to be deaf or something? I believe I read that somewhere.
I thought the film was great.
It took the first hour to build up to the ending, because that is what life is. Most of the time you are going about everyday life (droning about) and never know when something bad will happen.
The kids in Columbine, for example, never knew what was going to happen that day. They were going about their everyday lives until, abruptly, they were shattered of an innocent future.
I thought the film was great.
It took the first hour to build up to the ending, because that is what life is. Most of the time you are going about everyday life (droning about) and never know when something bad will happen.
The kids in Columbine, for example, never knew what was going to happen that day. They were going about their everyday lives until, abruptly, they were shattered of an innocent future.
