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Just some personal thoughts on Star Wars

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Just some personal thoughts on Star Wars

Old 02-14-04, 04:17 PM
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Just some personal thoughts on Star Wars

So, with all the talk of the DVD release, I got an urge to watch the original trilogy. While watching it and thinking about the upcoming Episode III, I had some thoughts...

I might be imagining things but there have been some interesting, possible "foreshadowing" interactions between Obi-Wan and Chewbacca in Ep. IV.

Something doesn't make sense to me. If the prequels were never made, and the backstory wasn't so clear this wouldn't be a real issue. Luke's name, Skywalker... Since they split the twins up and supposedly hid them from Anakin/Vader, why would they leave Luke with the same name as his father? Wouldn't take too much to find him, plus he's living with Amidala's relatives. While Leia obviously was given to the Jimmy Smitts character (Senator Bail Organa).

Wouldn't Vader reconize R2 & 3PO? Since he built C-3PO when he was a boy...

That's it for now I'll probably think of more as I go through them...
Old 02-14-04, 04:31 PM
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Has it occurred to you that those questions will be answered in Episode III?
Old 02-14-04, 04:32 PM
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Yeah, just thinking out loud
Old 02-14-04, 04:33 PM
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someone over on HTF posted that plans for what became Return of The Jedi were vastly different than what eventually found its way on screen.
Kurtz, the producer of the first two who bailed (or got pushed) from the last one has gone on record as to how George originally envisioned the saga playing out.

it was supposed to be nine films.
the "other" was not meant to be leia, but someone else.
Leia was never meant to be his sister- his sister was on the other side of the universe and would have been revealed in the next trilogy (eps 7-9).
the Emperor was not supposed to die in Ep 6, rather that would have been the ultimate climax in ep 9.
and as everyone already knows, there was never the intention of Ewoks. Wookies were originally in that capacity.

i find the ideas of all these changes far more fascinating than any part of ROTJ.
and anyone that complains about either the SE changes or the Prequels not being worthy of SW, all of this lackluster treatment of the material can be traced to directly back to Jedi.
the SEs, and the PTs really just serve to 'validate' all the sudden changes to characters and situations that occur in that one film.
Old 02-14-04, 05:27 PM
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Wouldn't Vader reconize R2 & 3PO? Since he built C-3PO when he was a boy...
this one has been discussed a great deal. Droids are like appliances. Do you remember the toaster you had when you were a little kid? Also, would you if you did recognize it know it was the exact same toaster as the one you had. There are tons of different models out there so the chances of you running in and recognize your toaster is slim.

There is also a hint that in empire vader had fett put down his gun because he did recognize C3PO strapped to chewies back. Perhaps there is some truths to that theory, perhaps not. who knows.

he's living with Amidala's relatives
actually, he's living with his fathers releatives.. atleast closest living relatives. Remeber owen and beru are anakins step brother and sister in law. I'm sure it didn't cross his mind to go back to the planet. Perhaps even he wouldn't want to go to the ass end of space for the simple matter that his mother died there.

Though all that could be tossed out the window if in fact, there isn't much of anakin left in vader through that time.

uh yeah.
Old 02-14-04, 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by Jackskeleton
this one has been discussed a great deal. Droids are like appliances. Do you remember the toaster you had when you were a little kid? Also, would you if you did recognize it know it was the exact same toaster as the one you had. There are tons of different models out there so the chances of you running in and recognize your toaster is slim.
I might if I had built it, the toaster talked to me and was with me when I was freed from slavery.

birrman54
Old 02-14-04, 06:29 PM
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Maybe in 10 years or so, George or his kids will produce another trilogy - eps 7-9 - and they will go back to Eps 1-6 and change all the lightsabers to walkie talkies and make all the characters into ewoks.

I dunno - honestly, I think ROTJ turned out just fine (even though it was the weakest of the first trilogy). I also agree with Jack that a robot is more like an appliance than a buddy - the audience was more endeared to them than the characters were. Since the original trilogy was created with a backstory built in, I'm sure there will be plenty of ways that they connect the original trilogy with the new one in EP3.
Old 02-14-04, 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by Trigger
I'm sure there will be plenty of ways that they connect the original trilogy with the new one in EP3.
It will be interesting to see...

(about 1/2 way through Empire) God damn this a great flick!
Old 02-14-04, 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by Birrman54
I might if I had built it, the toaster talked to me and was with me when I was freed from slavery.

birrman54
and thus the second theory kicks in. The reason why he had fett put down his weapon when chewie was acting up when han was being frozen. Then again, Vader is a character who did terrible terrible things to his own daughter, walked away from his own wife who he went against the orders of the jedi to marry and then got into a fight with his own master. I think if he could turn his back on all those, a project that he was working on as a kid doesn't mean all that much to him.

Besides, who's to say he DOESN'T remember them? would his actions be any less different if he did recall them? I somewhat doubt that.
Old 02-15-04, 12:18 AM
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Originally posted by Jackskeleton
and thus the second theory kicks in. The reason why he had fett put down his weapon when chewie was acting up when han was being frozen. Then again, Vader is a character who did terrible terrible things to his own daughter,
Didn't know it was his daughter at the time.

walked away from his own wife who he went against the orders of the jedi to marry
We don't know that. Maybe she fled for the safety of the twins (fearing that they would be twisted by Anakin into little Sithlings), maybe Anakin left on his own out of shame (couldn't face Padme after his injuries sustained in the battle with Obi-Wan), etc.

and then got into a fight with his own master.
We don't know the reasons for the fight, either. Maybe the Jedi Council discover the marriage and send Obi-Wan to order Anakin to break it off, or Anakin defends Palpatine from an attack, killing a Jedi, and forcing Obi-Wan to confront him...
Old 02-15-04, 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by Jackskeleton
I think if he could turn his back on all those, a project that he was working on as a kid doesn't mean all that much to him.
Maybe Lucas will change Vader's death scene in ROTJ so his last line is "Rosebud" err "3PO..."
Old 02-15-04, 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by Breakfast with Girls
Lots o' stuff
yeah, but to put a female under that sort of questioning goes to show you the man has no concerns and a model he built such a long time ago really doesn't matter.. and if it did, well the actions in EMPIRE by Vader show a little hint

all the rest can simply be put in the "Lets see if it's answered in episode III"
Old 02-15-04, 02:27 PM
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I think everyone is putting too much thought into trying to "decipher" the true meaning and significance of what are probably just plot holes that GL didn't take the time to fill.

Lucas is probably almost out of character ideas, so rather than invent too many new ones, he throws everything at us again with the suffix "Jr." or Sr."and sticks them in the plotline somewhere with the proviso "Hey, it's a prequel, it's not supposed to be very original".

A formula might be:

Boba Fett = Cool, so Boba Fett "Sr." (Jango Fett) = Cool.
Lightsaber Duel = Cool, so 3 person lightsaber fight must = really cool (admittedly, it was) and if Lightsaber 3 person fight = Really Cool, so Army of Jedi lightsaber fight must be = Extremely Cool! (It wasn't).

We'll probably soon see a short Wookiiee somewhere, perhaps riding around with a vest-wearing teenaged rebel on a speederbike that's "the fastest thing on Coruscant", and moviegoers will begin theorizing: "I wonder why X doesn't remember Solo... he saved them from Y in Episode III! It must have been the Emperor controlling their minds!"

More likely, it was just poor writing.

Regardless, I'll always go and plunk down my 8$ to watch the new Star Wars, no matter how idiotic it is. Childhood may simply not allow me to strongly dislike anything that deals with that particular universe and plotline...but GL needs to re-read Joseph Campbell instead of the National Enquirer before he writes his plots!!!
Old 02-15-04, 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by mikewendt
(about 1/2 way through Empire) God damn this a great flick!
Damn straight! It's the best one of all of them.
Old 02-15-04, 05:31 PM
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When your dealing with prequels to movies made over 20 + years ago I think you have to be a bit forgiving. Plus, as corny as it sounds, the plot holes actually cause more great discussions concerning the Star Wars Universe.
Old 02-15-04, 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by Giantrobo
When your dealing with prequels to movies made over 20 + years ago I think you have to be a bit forgiving. Plus, as corny as it sounds, the plot holes actually cause more great discussions concerning the Star Wars Universe.
Perhaps GL should invest in some patented "John Carpenter Plot Caulk"!

Whenever there's an inconsistency that isn't important to explain, just address the issue by having one character exclaim "How did (that happen)...ect., and then have another character reply:

"Wasn't easy"!

Plot hole filled.
Old 02-15-04, 09:12 PM
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I was just watching AOTC now and got to the 3PO reunion... well it could be that since 3PO was grey or whatever color he was in AOTC, this was probably how Anakin saw him last... sometime between III and IV he become Gold. That would make most sense to me if he didnt interview the GOLD 3PO in ESB and really know who he was.
Old 02-16-04, 02:21 AM
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I always loved the original Star Wars trilogy. My biggest gripe with the new ones is that there were no Han Solo types. Ya know, an "everyman" for the audience to identify with. The characters in the recent ones just seem dull dull dull. Just my opinion, though.
Old 02-16-04, 03:11 AM
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what are probably just plot holes that GL didn't take the time to fill
More like most of the niggling fanboy criticisms are not plotholes at all, at least not if you actually use your brain and think about it a bit. Something 99% of fanboys never, ever do.
Old 02-16-04, 04:22 AM
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You know, the C3PO model shows up in the original trilogy a bit in different colors and the such. perhaps it's just as popular a model as any other driod and easily can be blended in so vader really wouldn't have known it was him. who knows
Old 02-16-04, 07:25 AM
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More like most of the niggling fanboy criticisms are not plotholes at all, at least not if you actually use your brain and think about it a bit. Something 99% of fanboys never, ever do.
just wait till you find out how much more character bits he's revised for the 2004 dvds.
if you think the old fans are having caniption fits now- you ain't seen nothing yet.

but at least it will now give fans like Terrell the ammo to say- "see, i told ya so- everything fits now...thats the way it was supposed to be all along"
and since we will never ever see the original cuts again, there will never be any reason to doubt that this was always the way it was.
sheer genius.
Old 02-16-04, 08:45 AM
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Just wait til Episode 3...all will be answered!
Old 02-16-04, 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by Terrell
More like most of the niggling fanboy criticisms are not plotholes at all, at least not if you actually use your brain and think about it a bit. Something 99% of fanboys never, ever do.
No, I see where there are niggling plot-holes that could only irritate "fanboys", if you are referring to the people that buy scripts and watch the movies over and over again, looking for a mistake...

But let's face it, the situation with the droids IS a legitimate plot hole...
Old 02-16-04, 10:42 AM
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why?
So he built the driod which seems to be a generic model type as we have seen walking around in the back ground of Episode I (server driod on the trade federation ship) and in ANH (seems to be the general translator model). Perhaps he was building him to better help watto in the space shop as a translator.

Taking the original idea's lucas once state that he wanted to make it so that the driods were the only ones who went throughout the movies. A sort of adventure through the eyes of the driods. A jay and silent bob of the star wars universe if you will. What better chance and easy way to do it since a driod's memory can be easily erased. Now Obi never was lieing when he stated that he didn't ever own that driod. it was anakins and amidala's all along.

Where is the plot hole? Oh you mean the fact that C3PO never recognizes his maker who is now in a all black outfit and goes by a different name. Does C3PO also shut himself down while obi and luke talk about the fate of his father at the hands of vader? So where exactly would C3PO learn that Vader is anakin?

If anything the events in Empire gives a tiny hint that either Vader didn't want chewie dead or that he might have recognized the driod that he once built on his back. Take that as you will, but for a Dark Lord who goes through commanding offices like a change of underwear it seems like having fett kill one driod carrying wookie wouldnt mean much.

After all this it doesn't seem like there is many plot holes that can't be explained.

Last edited by Jackskeleton; 02-16-04 at 11:22 AM.
Old 02-16-04, 11:14 AM
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Nicely put, Jack . . .

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