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ROTK: What did you think of Denethor? (SPOILERS)

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ROTK: What did you think of Denethor? (SPOILERS)

Old 12-17-03, 03:48 PM
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ROTK: What did you think of Denethor? (SPOILERS)

I'm wondering what people here thought of Denethor(John Noble) in RotK, especially those that have NOT seen the EE of ttt.
Old 12-17-03, 03:53 PM
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I thought he did an okay job, his death scene was laughable, but other than that he did what he was supposed to do.
Old 12-17-03, 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by B.A.hist
I thought he did an okay job, his death scene was laughable, but other than that he did what he was supposed to do.
Ditto.
Old 12-17-03, 03:55 PM
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To be honest, he seemed kind of like a sideshow. When he says "I will not bow to the ranger from the north," I thought they were going to set up a thing where Aragorn eventually has to fight him off in order to regain the throne, which would have been awesome. As it was, I didn't think his death scene was particularly funny, but it also wasn't as tragic or epic as Jackson intended. Even the set-up in The Two Towers EE didn't really give this character an arc.
Old 12-17-03, 03:58 PM
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I thought he did a very good job with the role. I could see it being pretty confusing and seeming more pointless to those who didn't see The Two Towers EE to get the flashback scene with him and Boromir and Fairamir though.

Last edited by Josh Hinkle; 12-17-03 at 04:34 PM.
Old 12-17-03, 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by Josh Hinkle
I thought he did a very good job with the role. I could see it being pretty confusing and seeming more pointless to those who didn't see The Two Towers EE to get the flashback seen with him and Boromir and Fairamir though.

That's right! I forgot he wasnt in the Theatrical version!

..I also agree with your take Josh Hinkle.

Last edited by Giantrobo; 12-18-03 at 01:20 AM.
Old 12-17-03, 05:04 PM
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Hmmm...

IMHO, the actor did a good job.

However, if you hadn't seen TTT:EE, things could be slightly confusing.

This would be especially true for those people who have never read the books.

I am hoping that for the ROTK:EE they actually show Denethor's *slow* descent into madness (and reason) as detailed in the book.

In the movie the character just came across as a wacko that should never have been in the steward position to start with.
Old 12-17-03, 05:09 PM
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yeah he is usually not a very nice guy in the books but in the movie he was a total wacko
in the books he becomes the wacko and despairs after he uses the palantir one last time, seeing the armies that are going to attack minastirith plus faramir dead
Old 12-17-03, 07:39 PM
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He seemed like a random nutjob in the movie: here's hoping the EE restores his character to something more like the book.
Old 12-17-03, 08:09 PM
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I'm surprised they kept the faramir
Spoiler:
going to his death
scene in the theatrical version at all, as it must seem extremely disjointed without seeing the other EEs. He apathetically sends him away, then is overcome with grief when he sees what happened to him
Old 12-17-03, 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by RoQuEr
I'm surprised they kept the faramir
Spoiler:
going to his death
scene in the theatrical version at all, as it must seem extremely disjointed without seeing the other EEs. He apathetically sends him away, then is overcome with grief when he sees what happened to him

Gandalf did say he would realize how much he loves Faramir. Plus, he was in and out of his mind so being an ass to Faramir then mourning his death works.
Old 12-17-03, 10:47 PM
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Like others have said, I thought he served his purpose. I would've liked to have had a bit more of him in the movie, but that's what the EE is for.
Old 12-18-03, 12:58 AM
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This was the worst thing about the theatrical cut of ROTK...but so much else was incredible that I just let it go.

I can tell you that similarly to the revisions Faramir in the EEs of TTT, and Celeborn in FOTR, the EE of ROTK will transform Denethor's character into something improved beyond recognition. He really is an awesome character in the book, but because all he really does is sit around and talk except for the pyre scene, he would have slown down the theatrical cut too much so they had to prune him severely. Noble did give him a really unique presence and I can't wait to see the rest of his scenes.
Old 12-18-03, 01:56 AM
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Slown is a word?

Oh, and my only real input is that he is a messy eater. Shame on him.
Old 12-18-03, 04:05 AM
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Speaking of his eating habits, was that supposed to be tomato juice running down his chin? It sure looked a lot like blood? Were they trying to say he's so crazy he'd bite the inside of his mouth to pieces and wouldn't even feel it? It seemed a little odd.
Old 12-18-03, 04:20 AM
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All I can say about Denethor is that Middle Earth needs a new slogan: "Stop, drop and roll."
Old 12-18-03, 04:46 AM
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I was rather disappointed in his death scene...and I dont think there was quite enough of him...
Old 12-18-03, 05:55 AM
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Me and my buddy kept wondering what the hell was his problem. We didn't see TTT: EE, and just had no clue why he was all psychotic and stuff.
Old 12-18-03, 09:10 AM
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Speaking of his eating habits, was that supposed to be tomato juice running down his chin? It sure looked a lot like blood? Were they trying to say he's so crazy he'd bite the inside of his mouth to pieces and wouldn't even feel it? It seemed a little odd.
It's pretty obvious symbolism. He's carelessly devouring/destroying his own flesh and blood.
Old 12-18-03, 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by Suprmallet
Speaking of his eating habits, was that supposed to be tomato juice running down his chin? It sure looked a lot like blood? Were they trying to say he's so crazy he'd bite the inside of his mouth to pieces and wouldn't even feel it? It seemed a little odd.
I thought it was just showing how much of a pig he was/sybolism of the carnage that was taking place simultaniously.
Old 12-18-03, 05:08 PM
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I got the contrast between his eating and the disregard for the slaughter that he ordered going on outside, but for me the thing that hit that home the most was the sound, not the visual. The bone snapping and the chewing did it. I did not consider the symbolism of him eating his own flesh and blood because I thought that was way too over the top, but perhaps PJ just wanted to go way over the top with Denethor in general.
Old 12-18-03, 08:46 PM
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I think the scene between him and Faramir could have been a little more expanded to show the rift between the two.

Other than that, I wasn't really bothered, even the burning scene didn't seem too over the top to me.

He doesn't play that big of a part in Tolken's world, so I'm glad he's not that big in ROTK: The Movie.
Old 12-19-03, 03:59 AM
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People have said that in the book, he went crazy bc he looked into his palantir too much. they should have put this into the movie. just one sentence would have added so much to his character. something like:

Gandalf: "he has peered into the palantir too often. his mind is not strong enough. it has driven him mad."

i'll be reading ROTK soon though.
Old 12-19-03, 04:10 AM
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Originally posted by TCG
People have said that in the book, he went crazy bc he looked into his palantir too much. they should have put this into the movie. just one sentence would have added so much to his character. something like:

Gandalf: "he has peered into the palantir too often. his mind is not strong enough. it has driven him mad."

i'll be reading ROTK soon though.
IIRC, in the movie he did say he "saw" who Gandalf was riding with didn't he?
Old 12-19-03, 08:12 AM
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I think the main piece missing was showing Denethors "palantir addiction" - that would have gone a long way to explaining his behavior.

the only clue that he even HAS a palantir is when he says to Gandalf "I know many things Mithrandir, I know who you are riding with, etc. etc."

It would link him closer to Saruman's madness - palantir addiction is bad!

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