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Why did Jean... (major untagged spoilers) (X2)

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Why did Jean... (major untagged spoilers) (X2)

Old 12-13-03, 07:50 PM
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Why did Jean... (major untagged spoilers) (X2)

... have to die? When she gets off the plane at the end, she immediately starts to turn it on. Why exactly couldn't she do that from inside the plane? Why from outside? Was she getting power from the water?

And once the plane is above water, she gives up and lets the water overtake her. WHY?! Why not fight it a little at least?

And how did you take the ending? Is she alive?
Old 12-13-03, 07:52 PM
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You want major untagged spoilers?

The answers come from the comic book.
Old 12-13-03, 07:53 PM
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Go for it I haven't read the comics. What do they say?
Old 12-13-03, 07:57 PM
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Bascially, Jean is realizing the full extent of her powers.

I could tell you the comic book plot, but it doesn't match the movies... so I'll tell you what I INTERPRET by combining the movies and the comics.

Jean is unsure of the extent of her powers. She's a bit scared of what she realizes she can do. She gets out of the plane, because to control it and start it, she BELIEVES she needs line of sight.

When the water comes upon her, she diverts it, then at some point realizes she DOESN'T need to divert it and lets it rush by her. At that point, she doesn't really die, but becomes "The Phoenix" (that which rises from the dead).

I won't go into what Jean Grey as the Phoenix is, because that's probably what the whole third movie is going to be about.
Old 12-13-03, 08:00 PM
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Oooohhh... so she doesn't give up to die, she just realizes she's so powerful that she doesn't need to contain the water anymore?

What are the powers of Phoenix? Just a very general interpretation
Old 12-13-03, 08:37 PM
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I found this site, which will tell you more then you ever wanted to know
http://hem.passagen.se/hggblom2/phoenix/

Click on the "Jean's Life" icon on the top then the "The Phoenix Force" icon on the side.
Old 12-13-03, 08:48 PM
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My god, read the comics for goodness sakes. or hell, read the tons of threads that already talked about the phoenix saga in full detail.
Old 12-13-03, 08:53 PM
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Thanks I'll check it out tomorrow.

I tried reading the comics and found them uninteresting. Same thing with Spider-Man. LOVED the movie, can't stand to read the comics. I'm not a comics type of person.
Old 12-13-03, 08:55 PM
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You must be reading the wrong comics then.

you also have to look to what comic book story arc you are reading to understand. You wont be able to pick up any x-men comic and have it tell you back story and so forth from years ago.
Old 12-13-03, 09:15 PM
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See if you can find a trade paperback of "The Dark Phoenix" saga.
Old 12-13-03, 10:21 PM
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The Phoenix story is so lame, I'm praying they pretend nothing happened to Jean Grey and go on with a different plot line in X3.
Old 12-13-03, 10:27 PM
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I think that Jean exited the jet as she believed her power could possibly destroy it (look what happened to the dam during her battle with Cyclops). In the commentary on the X2 DVD, Bryan Singer likens her "death" to Obi-Wan's sacrifice in A New Hope. I think that's fitting as Jean perhaps felt an evolution of her powers was imminent; she knew she wouldn't really die, she would instead become something of a higher order. Or something like that.

For those interested in the story as it played out in the comics, Wizard Entertainment Group has just issued a hardback compendium entitled the 10 Greatest X-Men Stories Ever which includes the Dark Phoenix Saga. It can be had for about $24.00 (got mine from Tales of Wonder) and it's a nice package.
Old 12-14-03, 07:34 AM
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Agree that more likely that she sacrificed herself to save the others b/c her powers were getting out of her control and she didn't want to hurt the ones she loved who were with her. I doubt she thought she would live though this though it is possible that her plan was to be reborn as Phoenix. I think this was a weak point in the movie b/c unless you were a fan, most people didn't know why she had to die instead of using her powers from inside the jet. I think a little more could have been done to show that she died because she was losing control of her powers. Yeah, I know it was fairly obvious if you know the story, but it was a common question for those that didn't know it.
Old 12-14-03, 08:12 AM
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I thought it was clear on why it happened. First off, we are not going to go by the comic books, because there is no way Singer and crew could do the Phoniex saga within a movie.

Instead, it looks like they are going to take it another route. Durin' the first movie, on Liberty island, Magento's device caused Jean to become the next step in mutation. Her telekentic powers have reached a level unknown . That answers on why she is so powerful, but your question is "WHY"?

Jean left the plane to sacrfice herself. Nothing is more important to her, than the people around her. She knew she had the new power to part the waves and get the jet off the ground. She also knew she was losing control of her powers. At the start of the movie, Scott mentioned that before she had problems moving small items, now after the Liberty Island "incident", she would have nightmares and lift the bed up and shake the whole room. She wasn't in control of her powers. Just like when she heard all the voices at the musuem, she was not in control of what was happening. She was dangerous to herself and everyone around her.

Also - the "line of sight" is a good point. Just like Nightcrawler believed he couldn't teleport to which he could not see, however later on he does. Jean, didn't realize the full extent of her powers, so she thought she would need to see the Jet to move it.

To sum it up:

Jean becomes the Phoenix. Which is the next step of mutant evolution (in the movie). She takes a giant leap forward. She defies her own death and her powers are off the chart.

A quote from a comic book source.

Knowing that she could not control her powers, Jean sacrificed herself: she telekinetically took control over a weapon she knew could kill her, and shot herself. Jean died in Scott's arms...
Same prinicple. Jean knew she could not control her powers in her current form .
Old 12-14-03, 02:50 PM
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I think the most obvious answer is that it was her powers that were keeping the jet from being operational. At the beginning we see her freaking out a bit and it interferes with the television sets in the museum. The jet wouldn't operate, and she realized it was her powers that kept it from working right. Once she was away from the ship, it could operate properly.
Old 12-14-03, 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by LivingINClip
I thought it was clear on why it happened. First off, we are not going to go by the comic books, because there is no way Singer and crew could do the Phoniex saga within a movie.
I would guess though that you have knowledge of the comic book. My point was that it was not that obvious to those who only know the X-Men through the movie. Though the story may be changed to some degree, the comic book readers know that Jean changes to Phoenix. Besides the museum scene where things bug out and a few hints near the end, I think that people don't really know the level of changes going on in Jean and it is not obviously clear why she can't just use her powers from inside the jet. I would still guess that she is losing control and that is why she killed herself, but think that the theory that it is her powers that are screwing up the jet are also a very strong possibility. Either way, though things happen in the movie to explain both theories; I think a lot of people could have used one or two more lines in the movie (most likely from Prof X) that specifically said "she felt her powers were out of control which placed the X-Men in danger" or "she felt that it was her powers that were interfering with the plane's ability to fly so she sacrificed herself to save us." That way, the "Why didn't she just do that from inside the plane" question would be answered. Not all questions need to be answered in the film, but I think this question has come up so often that it would have helped the general public to fully understand what was going on even though they have yet to be introduced to Jean as the Phoenix.
Old 12-14-03, 11:27 PM
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Isn't it obnoxious to have to read the whole thread to figure out what movie is being spoiled for me...

Now, of course, I see the little X2 at the end of the thread title, but it could really be better placed.

Oh well - it's a comic book movie, and while I look forward to seeing it any day now (shipment from DDD), I'm not too worried about the spoilage. Thanks though
Old 12-14-03, 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by JonTurner
Isn't it obnoxious to have to read the whole thread to figure out what movie is being spoiled for me...

Now, of course, I see the little X2 at the end of the thread title, but it could really be better placed.
Your bad. I personally wouldn't click on a thread with "major untagged spoilers" in the title if I didn't know which movie it was (or I would at least look a little closer at the title), but hey, that's just me.
Old 12-15-03, 09:37 AM
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Also - the "line of sight" is a good point. Just like Nightcrawler believed he couldn't teleport to which he could not see, however later on he does. Jean, didn't realize the full extent of her powers, so she thought she would need to see the Jet to move it.

Didnt she take the missile following the jet off-course and make it explode earlier in the movie without directly seeing it?
Old 12-15-03, 09:51 AM
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Originally posted by D_N_G
Didnt she take the missile following the jet off-course and make it explode earlier in the movie without directly seeing it?

I think so. But like he said, she's still figuring it all out.
Old 12-15-03, 12:47 PM
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I was not familiar with the comic book, but as soon as everyone was exclaiming how the jet could not take off, and the camera focused on Jean's face, I said to myself, "Uh oh. I've seen that look before." I swear she was channeling the same look Spock had on his face near the end of Wrath of Khan when he realized he was going to have to leave the bridge and sacrifice himself so the Enterprise could escape.
Old 12-15-03, 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by majorjoe23
I think the most obvious answer is that it was her powers that were keeping the jet from being operational. At the beginning we see her freaking out a bit and it interferes with the television sets in the museum. The jet wouldn't operate, and she realized it was her powers that kept it from working right. Once she was away from the ship, it could operate properly.
This is what I assumed.
Old 12-15-03, 02:49 PM
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It's really all Scott's fault. When both Cyclops and Storm were trying to start the plane and failing miserably, Cyclops said that they needed an outside power source. The camera then panned to Jean and the look came over her face when she realized what she would have to do

I feel dumb, because until I read this thread I didn't even think of the possibility that Jean's emerging powers were interfering w/ the X-jet. Even though it's just speculation, it's pretty damn good. guys.
Old 12-15-03, 03:37 PM
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They were alternatives for Jean going out and sacrificing herself. Long way would be for Nightcrawler to teleport a few of them at a time out of danger. Storm has complete control of the weather. I believed she could have frozen the water.
Old 12-15-03, 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by big whoppa
They were alternatives for Jean going out and sacrificing herself. Long way would be for Nightcrawler to teleport a few of them at a time out of danger. Storm has complete control of the weather. I believed she could have frozen the water.
In the comics, Nightcrawler can only teleport so much before he gets tired, and teleporting another person wears him out even further. Betweeen the X-Men and the students, there were about 15 people he would have needed to port out.

As for freezing the water, there are a few problems: Water takes awhile to freeze, in with sub zero wind blowing at it. Also freezing water expands, so even if she managed to freeze one portion, there would be millions of gallons of pressure behind it, propelling it forward. That's why I assumed Iceman couldn't just freeze it either (that and he's young and inexperienced with his powers).

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