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TTT:EE - Whaddaya mean Aragorn is 87?

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TTT:EE - Whaddaya mean Aragorn is 87?

Old 12-11-03, 12:45 AM
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TTT:EE - Whaddaya mean Aragorn is 87?

Not having read the books, can someone kindly fill me in on the 'race' that Aragorn belongs to taht makes him 87 years old?

Eowyn said it after he ate the 'soup'... that he was a special race of men that lived long... I thought it might have been because he lived with the Elves for a time.

Please explain... and thanks in advance.
Old 12-11-03, 12:54 AM
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The movie pretty much explained it all. Aragorn is a Numenorian, a race of man that has a longer lifespan than average.

I am the very model of a modern Numenorian;
My language is invented and my mindset is Victorian.
I'm Estel and I'm Aragorn, and Elessar and Strider, too
I've hunted orcs and trolls and wargs, and sometimes a Black Rider, too.
I'm pretty good at fighting and you'll find me where the dangers are;
I'm fearless and invincible, as all the other Rangers are.
My sword is old and busted but I wield it with impunity
And draw it out and flourish it at every opportunity.
I hurl myself against the foe with courage and avidity,
And maybe just a soupcon of inherited stupidity.
From Arnor to Anduin, from Cardolan to Lothlorien,
I am the very model of a modern Numenorian.

I'm very good with herbs and stuff (I'm so New Age and sensitive);
The tales I tell of days of yore work wonders as a sedative.
I got a gal in Rivendell (which sounds a bit Glenn Miller-y)
And when I went to Rohan last, they stuck me in the pillory.
To be the King of Gondor is my duty and I'm bound to it,
And one day it may happen when I finally get round to it.
I'm very wise and learned, I'm your actual intellectual,
And trained from birth in leadership, though strangely ineffectual.
So if you want a sherpa for a toddle through the Hithaeglir,
Or need a human champion who's not a jerk, like Boromir,
Check out the heir of Isildur with any good historian;
He'll tell you I'm the model of a modern Numenorian.
Old 12-11-03, 01:20 AM
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If you made that up, Groucho, my hat's off to you.
Old 12-11-03, 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by DonnachaOne
If you made that up, Groucho, my hat's off to you.
Thanks Groucho. Explains it rather well, but a litte "google"ing revealed the poem is by sci-fi/fantasy humorist Tom Holt.
Old 12-11-03, 09:34 AM
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LONG ANSWER:

The lineage of Aragorn is interesting in that he is directly tied to the line of elves and men. At the end of the great war against Morgoth (the first baddie in M.E. for whom Sauron was a Lt.), the Valar had to deal with the scions of the unions between Man and Elf. The surviving scions of the unions where Elrond and Elros (who were half-elven on both sides). The Valar gave each a choice to either be counted among men or elves. Elrond chose to be elvish, Elros chose to be of mankind. As Elros' choice sundered him from his elvish heritage, and as a reward for the valor of the houses of men who fought with the Elder against Morgoth, the Valar created an island within sight of the undying lands. Elros became the leader of the people of Numenor (the island). The Valar also granted Elros and his people extended life.

After many generations, the Numenorians fell into despair and tried, unsuccessfully, to reach and conquer the lands of the Valar in Aman. As a result, the Valar asked Iluvatar to remove Aman from the world of M.E. so that such a thing could never more occur. During the process of the removal of Aman, the island of Numenor sank and all but a small portion of its population was lost. The surviving leaders Elendil and his sons Isildur and Anarion settled in M.E. and founded Gondor in the south and Arnor in the North. Due to intermarriage with non-Numenorians, their life-span decreased and began to approach normal life-spans for men. Occassionally, and as a result of a union between two lines of stronger inheritence, a long-span of years would appear in the line of the Kings. Aragorn is a direct descendant of Isildur's youngest son and was a throwback on the Numenorians of old....
Old 12-11-03, 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by DonnachaOne
If you made that up, Groucho, my hat's off to you.
Yeah, no way I could make something up that good that quickly. Just a cool thing that I thought would be fun in the thread.
Old 12-11-03, 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by wlmowery
LONG ANSWER:

The lineage of Aragorn is interesting in that he is directly tied to the line of elves and men. At the end of the great war against Morgoth (the first baddie in M.E. for whom Sauron was a Lt.), the Valar had to deal with the scions of the unions between Man and Elf. The surviving scions of the unions where Elrond and Elros (who were half-elven on both sides). The Valar gave each a choice to either be counted among men or elves. Elrond chose to be elvish, Elros chose to be of mankind. As Elros' choice sundered him from his elvish heritage, and as a reward for the valor of the houses of men who fought with the Elder against Morgoth, the Valar created an island within sight of the undying lands. Elros became the leader of the people of Numenor (the island). The Valar also granted Elros and his people extended life.

After many generations, the Numenorians fell into despair and tried, unsuccessfully, to reach and conquer the lands of the Valar in Aman. As a result, the Valar asked Iluvatar to remove Aman from the world of M.E. so that such a thing could never more occur. During the process of the removal of Aman, the island of Numenor sank and all but a small portion of its population was lost. The surviving leaders Elendil and his sons Isildur and Anarion settled in M.E. and founded Gondor in the south and Arnor in the North. Due to intermarriage with non-Numenorians, their life-span decreased and began to approach normal life-spans for men. Occassionally, and as a result of a union between two lines of stronger inheritence, a long-span of years would appear in the line of the Kings. Aragorn is a direct descendant of Isildur's youngest son and was a throwback on the Numenorians of old....
Wow, someone actually understood the Simarilion.
Old 12-11-03, 03:47 PM
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Yep - Aragorn ends up living like 250-350 years before he dies -
but even then of course, Arwen is an unhappy camper...


and this is even shown in The Two Towers as a "dream", but it is what eventually happens.
Old 12-11-03, 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by Seeker
Yep - Aragorn ends up living like 250-350 years before he dies -
but even then of course,.......
nice spoiler...pretty sure he said he hadn't read the books.
Old 12-11-03, 08:21 PM
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well, it was ALREADY in the Two Towers, and it won't be in ROTK, so I didn't think I was spoiling movies.
Old 12-11-03, 10:30 PM
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Gee thanks Seeker...

You didn't spoil anything for me...
Old 12-11-03, 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by Seeker
Yep - Aragorn ends up living like 250-350 years before he dies -
Make that 210. I only know that off of the top of my head because I just finished reading part of the appendices where they talk about Aragorn and Arwen.
Old 12-12-03, 01:42 AM
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Good posts

Some questions:

1. Doesn't the above info make Aragorn related to Arwin?
2. Isn't Galadriel Arwin's Grandmother or somemthing like that?
3. Was Aragorn's mother an Elf or part elf?

4. Since we're talking immortality in Elves, what happens to elves when they die?
Old 12-12-03, 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by Seeker
well, it was ALREADY in the Two Towers, and it won't be in ROTK, so I didn't think I was spoiling movies.
i think it was meant to be interpreted as a POSSIBLE future. I'm pretty sure that PJ and team intended for the whole love triange angle to be left somewhat in tact.

not a huge deal...hope my post didn't come off as too hostile. wasn't intended that way.
Old 12-12-03, 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by Giantrobo
Good posts

Some questions:

4. Since we're talking immortality in Elves, what happens to elves when they die?
Elves are 'immortal', at least while the World lasts; they do not suffer ageing or disease, and if they are slain or wither with grief, they are reincarnated in the Halls of Mandos in Valinor.


After death, Mortal Men were gathered in the Halls of Mandos, and then departed from the World for a destination unknown even to the Valar. Whereas all other beings in Arda, including the Valar themselves, were bound to the World and its fate, the Gift freed Men from this destiny, allowing them to shape their own lives as they wished.

Last edited by covenant; 12-12-03 at 08:18 AM.
Old 12-12-03, 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by chess
nice spoiler...pretty sure he said he hadn't read the books.
To be fair, that info is in the appendix, which probably 9/10 people that read the books don't bother reading.
Old 12-12-03, 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by Giantrobo
Good posts

Some questions:

1. Doesn't the above info make Aragorn related to Arwin?
2. Isn't Galadriel Arwin's Grandmother or somemthing like that?
3. Was Aragorn's mother an Elf or part elf?

4. Since we're talking immortality in Elves, what happens to elves when they die?
1. Well yes, but something like 1st Cousins, 100+ removed. (Not sure on the exact number of generations between Elros and Aragorn off the top of my head and I don't have the Sil with me... )
2. Yes. Elrond married the daughter of Galadriel and Celeborn who was killed by wolves in the passes of the Misty Mountains when travelling between Rivendell and Lothlorien.
3. Aragorn's mother was of the Numenorian race descended indirectly from the line of the kings of Arnor. Thus, with two strong lines of inheritence, Aragorn lived a long, full life for a post-fall Numenorian.

Last edited by wlmowery; 12-12-03 at 11:09 AM.
Old 12-12-03, 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by wlmowery
1. Well yes, but something like 1st Cousins, 100+ removed. (Not sure on the exact number of generations between Elros and Aragorn off the top of my head and I don't have the Sil with me... )
2. Yes. Elrond married the daughter of Galadriel and Celeborn who was killed by wolves in the passes of the Misty Mountains when travelling between Rivendell and Lothlorien.
3. Aragorn's mother was of the Numenorian race descended indirectly from the line of the kings of Arnor. Thus, with two strong lines of inheritence, Aragorn lived a long, full life for a post-fall Numenorian.
Old 12-12-03, 10:48 PM
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Ahh, good to hear tales of the first and second ages. Now that every idiot is familiar with LotR story, we purists must identify our brothers and sisters among the Silmarillion readers. (Though admittedly, some of you have a better grasp of its intricacies than I do.)

For how good the movies have turned out, I can't help but have a part of me wish they were never filmed, especially when I see things like Frodo on a Burger King cup, or Duracell touting how they were the battery used in every light meter on the set of LotR. Just too commercial; it would not sit well with the Professor at all.
Old 12-12-03, 11:33 PM
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In seeing it in the theaters tonight some lady yelled out the title of this thread down to the exact quote.

added with the random nerd clapping, I'm sorta glad I'm not going to the all day showing..
Old 12-13-03, 04:26 AM
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Originally posted by TheMadMonk
For how good the movies have turned out, I can't help but have a part of me wish they were never filmed, especially when I see things like Frodo on a Burger King cup, or Duracell touting how they were the battery used in every light meter on the set of LotR. Just too commercial; it would not sit well with the Professor at all.
I sympathize, but it's one of the necessary evils of modern Hollywood. you can blame the studio for that, not the filmmakers. hey, LOTR made it to the big screen, it's a small price to pay.
Old 12-14-03, 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by TheMadMonk
Ahh, good to hear tales of the first and second ages. Now that every idiot is familiar with LotR story, we purists must identify our brothers and sisters among the Silmarillion readers. (Though admittedly, some of you have a better grasp of its intricacies than I do.)


Hmmm......

there's just something F##### up about this paragraph.

But i'm sure you meant it in jest so maybe I shouldn't be offended....
Old 12-16-03, 05:56 PM
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Excellent site for all your questions, btw:

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/

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