chess

I remember having a bit of a chuckle at the "she can drive" line during that scene...because (unless i'm confusing her with somebody else), jada is a notoriously bad driver.

i'm not sure if it was meant as a joke, but i enjoyed it.

Giantrobo

...awwwwe come on! That's it? Didn't you want her to hook back up with Morpheus? I know I did.

Giantrobo

Halle Barry is a bad driver isn't she?

Another hated woman of color here on dvdtalk.

beefjerky

I don't think there really was a planned process. I think it was mainly the Oracle pushing things along.

The Oracle was the (un)seen hand that was guiding everything towards her goals. Her purpose was to study and understand humans and to unbalance the equation. Her understanding of humans allowed her to manipulate them. Like the Merovingian pointed out, Morpheus and Co. didn't understand the "why" of their actions. Their actions were the result of cause and effect. The Oracle understood that humans and machines need each other, and her vision of the future saw both species coexisting peacefully. You could not have this with the Architect's vision of the matrix. His purpose was to balance the equation, oppress humans with agents, help keep the system static, unchanging, and stifiling the growth of humans. However hard he tried to balance the equation, things would always fail. Humans would keep waking up and the anomaly would keep returning. His lack of understanding of humans and their need to grow kept him from realizing how to solve the problem.

The Oracle knew that the equation must be unbalanced. Human being can't adhere to perfection, and life cannot be looked at as a mathematical equation to balance because there are just too many unpredictable factors. So she manipulated human and program alike to unbalance the equation and end the opressive, calculating nature of the matrix. Smith was manipulated by gaining the Oracle's visions of the future. While the Oracle was not actively telling Smith what would happen, she foresaw a possible future where her goals would come to fruition. Smith was basing his actions on these visions, and so he too was manipulated by the Oracle. What he saw as him killing Neo was actually him merging with Neo to allow both to return to the Source, killing the code that both carried. Ultimately though, it was all up to Neo. She manipulated everyone towards the best possible outcome, but she did not always know it would happen. She had to believe Neo would make the right choice.

fumanstan

I didn't like Jada in Reloaded, but felt she was better in Revolutions. I'm just dissapointed that Morpheus got reduced to a co-pilot. A bad one at that Hell, even the Kid did more then him!

Patman

If you liken the Oracle to a dash of chaos, then it goes back to fractals, where order comes from chaos.

At the very beginning of the credits for Revolution, there's just a smidge of fractals on display in the green code spinning around on screen.

RocShemp

So that's what those were! I knew I'd seen them before but couldn't quite grasp what they reminded me of. You know, they appear just so briefly in Reloaded as well, if memory serves.

chess

oh great, now i'm stereotyping...i think you're right.

Giantrobo

Clive Barker's "Imajica" and "The Matrix" movies


Neo/Smith and Gentle/Sartori = Opposites but somehow related

Neo/Gentle = Good

Smith/Sartori = Bad

01/The First = "City of "God"? A place Neo/Gentle must go

The Fifth = People not aware of the truth concerning Imajica(other dominians)

The Matrix = People not aware of the truth concerning Earth(nothing left)

Gentle/Neo = Saviors unawair of their calling and powers

Jude/Trinity = Love relationship that causes Gentle/Neo to realize their role

Morpheus/Pie = Black characters who show Neo/Gentle the truth bringing them closer to what needs to be done

Hapexemdias(sp?)/The Architect = God, Father figures. Creators of Imajica/The Matrix

The Godesses/The Oracle = Female Gods sort of helping humans against Hapexemdias(sp?)/The Architect

The Kid/Monday = Zealous followers of Neo/Gentle

zero

http://www.movie-comics.com/comic.php?strip_id=232

beefjerky

Hey, I never even thought to connect the two. I just remember thinking, "hey cool, fractals" during the beginning, but forgot about that soon afterward. Yeah, order arising from chaos - the Oracle unbalancing the equation sending it into chaos, which brought it to order.

Spiky

Well, I don't know if this is too late, but here's another post.

I saw this recently and am quite disappointed. I don't know exactly what I was expecting, but this wasn't it. What I do know is I have to stop looking forward to movies. Obviously a waste of time. Maybe I'm supposed to be a whacked-out Gnostic nutcase to understand Rev, I don't know. Cause I certainly didn't get most of it.

It was just too fast. Others have said it should be cut down, but I think that's just because they want it to be shorter to lessen the pain. What it really needs is some fleshing out. I want an EE version of Rev, because the scenes just didn't make sense. Not necessarily longer, just explain SOMETHING or do SOMETHING that makes sense in some universe somewhere, for god's sake.

Here's some:
--2 minutes to get Neo away from the most powerful independent program running around in the Matrix? Come on, surely he has a couple cajones tucked away somewhere.
--Poor cutting during the final battle completely ignoring the main character for 1/2 hour, already mentioned by some others above.
--Bane/Smith vs Neo. Not a single block? So, they're both awesome fighters in the Matrix, but can't do even a simple move outside?
--Are the machines really so incapable of making soldiers? Those Sentinels are nothing.

One thing I really liked was the train station. Good concept, excellent analogy, good switch on the trainmaster being god. Follows the pattern of Matrix technology to a T.

Didn't like Neo being at the station, though. What is he, WIFI? They spent 1.99 movies saying the Matrix world is precisely like ours, then bash it all down with Neo's ability in the real world at the end of Rel. Stupid. Make a universe, then stick to it. This is right up there with midichlorians. Dare I say it?: MiaM would have been better.

I was gonna see this in Imax, but good ol' MN got jacked on that so far. So then I decided to just go see it and check it out again when/if it shows up at my local Imax. Guess what, I don't see why I'd go. There's nothing worth seeing again.

StevieD

Set aside all the pseudo-philosophizing for a second. The fact is, Revolutions was poor filmmaking. Poor editing, poor use of special effects, and, the worst offense of all.....absolutely the worst dialogue. If MST3K was still on, this would be fair game ("hey look, its that guy on the train from "Ghost"..does this mean Whoopie Goldberg will show up as the third incarnation of the Oracle??"). Or how about poor Nathaniel Lees (Mifune) ("...Ahh, Andy, Larry..about the script...well, I've got three pages of "ARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH"..there must have been a copying error or something....Andy/Larry - "Nope, that's it...but your character has a fantastic revelation where we find out he didn't complete the training either - fabulous, huh").

fumanstan

Opinion != Fact

JasonF

I agree 100%. I came away from the movie jealous of Neo; he didn't have to see the second half.

When Bane had his knife at Trinity's throat, and Keanu was standing there staring at them, I came this close to shouting out "Pop quiz, hot shot!"

SteelWill

A lot of people seem to be misunderstanding Neo's powers in the real word. His only extra abilities outside the Matrix involved manipulating & detecting machines. I took the explaination of him being connected to the 'source' as being connected to the machine power source - the Matrix. It was a part of him (either by design or by accident) and thus he had influence over it while inside and over anything powered by it on the outside. That explains his being able to see machines in the real world (and note that's all he could see after being blinded), destroying the squids, and being able to jump into the Matrix w/o a hardline. It also explains Smith's ability to take it over and also use it as passage into the real world.

My thoughts on the movie itself - it and Reloaded were just bad filmmaking. The pacing was bad (really bad in Reloaded), the wardrobe was bad (again, really bad in Reloaded), and the dialogue was bad (when it was not rediculously campy and over dramatized then it was trying to sound smarter than it actually was with the philoso-babble). I was a big fan of the first movie, and I am rather in awe of these filmaker's ability to start a franchise with such a high (dare I say brilliant) mark and proceed to drive it into the ground with the two sequels.

I also feel the need to ask, what was the deal making Neo look like the dullest knife in the drawer when talking with Bane/Smith? That was almost as painful to sit through as Trinity's farewell speech.

beefjerky

From someone's review:

Neo: "Who are you?"

Bane (in a note-perfect Agent Smith voice): "Don't you know, Mr. Anderson?"

Neo: "Tell me who you are?"

BANE: "Mr. Anderson, I think you do know who I am..."

Neo: "No, I don't."

Bane: "Don't you recognize my voice? The Mr. Anderson part?"

Neo: "......."

Bane: "Black suit? Sunglasses?

Neo: "......."

Bane: Receding hairline? 'Mr. Anderson.' Any of this ringing a bell?"

Neo: "That's all fine, but WHO are you?"

Spiky

No, we don't misunderstand. This is just stupid. All of it that you mentioned, with the possible exception of Smith taking over Bane. At least that follows the capability of the Matrix, human linked to programs, etc., if poorly. Otherwise I totally agree with the other stuff you said. (that I didn't quote)

And can someone try to explain (cause nobody really can) why Seraph is golden? Nobody else apparently is. Or are all the programs gold? NO, of course not since the agents weren't in the original, nor was anyone in Merv's place. But now in the real world Neo "sees" goldenness for machines, too. But only sentient machines, or machines made by sentient machines, or power flow USED by sentient machines. He doesn't see anything like that from his own ship. Uh, Niobi's ship.

I hope the Ws are pleased, cause no one else is.

beefjerky

Judging from the way youre talking about the golden thing, you obviously don't understand.

fumanstan

About the Bane/Smith and Neo thing... while i think it was pretty obvious, i can assume that Neo was just surprised because he didn't think that was possible. But it did make me want to say a big loud "duh!"

Regardless, i was still pleased with the movies.

huh?

The only thing I want to know after watching this movie is why was Morpheus reduced to a co-pilot after being such a bad ass in the first one. when Jada said to him: "Morpheus try to keep up", it was over for me....


Thats worse than Greedo shooting first.

fumanstan

Oh come on now, at least Morpheus didn't rob you of your childhood

Patman

The thing about Bane/Smith is that while many of us have had over 6 months to think about these events, the actual timeline in the film is very short, as in hours at best to reflect on it (if they did at all) plus the mounting threat of the machines coming knocking on Zion's doors. I can understand why the Bane/Smith development was not so clear to the rest of the crew.

I saw it on Imax for one last time yesterday, and noticed a few things that I hadn't on previous viewings:

1. When Char aims her shell-launcher down towards the machine driller, in the background you can see one of the infantry guys being thrown off the dock and you can hear the scream too. I was too focused watching Char the first couple of times before.

2. Someone earlier noticed that the Kid had a cut over his eye before he went out on his last run to reload Mifune, which meant that he and the other re-loaders were pretty busy re-loading the APUs during the attack, so it wasn't just that one time the Kid screws up his courage and goes out there. He was out there the entire time when his turn came to do the re-loads.

3. Getting back to the whole "why does Smith always use 'Mr. Anderson' when addressing Neo, well, it sets up the wake up call at the finale of Superbrawl where the Oracle is able to get her point across when she has Smith utter "Everything that has a beginning, has an end, Neo." I glossed over this on my other viewings, but it's quite evident to Neo when he hears this that it's the Oracle speaking through Smith.

Anyhow, there are a lot of details embedded in these films, and it'll be fun to get the DVD next year and peruse the film at my leisure.

RocShemp

I wonder if in the end the Kid was just supposed to be a red herring. I say this because after viewing The Animatrix many (myself included) believed (or, in some cases, were afraid) that the Kid would turn out to be the One after Neo died. Before anyone says "duh", I'm just posting this because while rewatching The Animatrix I noticed that I had forgotten the Kid's name. That being Michael Karl Popper. The reason I had found this so significant the first time I'd seen The Animatrix is because Michael is the name of the Word and that is Christ in his heavenly form before he descended on Earth. Of course, the Kid did not turn out to be the One so this was, to quote Cypher, "what a mind job!"

It's still weird, though, that the Kid was able to get himself out of the Matrix without the aid of a red pill or a hard line. Also, he always knows when Neo is around and keeps speaking of belief and things that are "meant to be".

Will they expound on any of this in the online comics that will follow the film or perhaps the MMORPG? Or another film? I know there's a lot of talk of The Matrix Revolutions being the last film but wasn't there also talk of The Matrix Reloaded and The Matrix Revolutions being one very long film that was split in two? If this is the case, that would mean there isn't a third film and the fourth, if ever made, would in fact be the conclusion to this trilogy.

If one does happen, I suppose Keanu would appear in a cameo showing himself to Morpheus with his plugs while still inside the Matrix (echoing a similar mircacle performed by Christ to one of his apostles when he showed the marks from his impalement in order for this apostle to believe that it was infact Jesus risen from the dead and standing there before him) but Neo would be portrayed by a different actor for the rest of the film.

I dunno, just some thoughts that popped into my head this morning.

Groucho

Yeah, Morpheus went from being the Obi-Wan of the first movie to the Chewbacca of the third.