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-   -   Just Saw Matrix: Revolutions (Thoughts) (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/327962-just-saw-matrix-revolutions-thoughts.html)

nemein 11-05-03 10:27 AM

The main question I have is there more Agent Smith in this film than in the 2nd one? He's the best character (esp in the 2nd one) IMHO :D

ckolchak 11-05-03 10:31 AM


The Matrix series is simply a comic book (Heavy Metal or Metal Hurlant for the french) on the screen. It's that simple. And, as that, it works.
its hardcore fans hyped it up as the ultimate intellectually challenging action movie.
in fact, so challenging, that if you weren't prepared to study the middle film, you would only reap the most shallow of benefits from it as well as the last.

from all the reviews i've read (even the positive ones) most of the concepts introduced and alluded to in the middle film are either ignored, abandonded or shuttled in favor of the typical big budget spfx bombast- the kind of bombast that the fans have been saying this trilogy is oh so much more than.

RocShemp 11-05-03 11:40 AM

Well my friends just came back from watching this (I have to wait until tommorrow) and told me they absolutely loved it! They also mentioned that the ending is an obvious setup for a sequel with
Spoiler:
shades of the death of Optimus Prime mixed with the ending of "Dark Awakening" indicating that Neo isn't officially dead so there is undoubtedly another film being cooked up.
Yes, they are aware that a game is rumoured to be in the works but they feel that a game wont do quite as well as another event film. Considering the lackluster performance of Enter the Matrix, I'm inclined to agree with them.

I'm really looking forward to this and since I liked Reloaded as much as they did, I'm sure I'll have a blast with this one.

Fur Q 11-05-03 11:57 AM


Originally posted by Toad
I'm going to see it regardless of everyone's opinion here. No offense to anyone in particular, I don't know you at all, but I have the feeling a lot of people are overly critical for the hell of it, or had some high expectations that probably couldn't have been met. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you're like me and just want some entertainment (minus any confusion). If so, and you still came away feeling like you did, then I'll be in for some trouble. ;)
i dont think anyone is being overly critical for the hell of it. this film really did disappoint. even more so than Reloaded. :(

the strength of the first movie was it's simplicity imo. the sequels are too complicated. too many characters. too much money thrown at overblown special effects, rather than concentrating on a simple story about a single character.

Josh H 11-05-03 11:58 AM


Originally posted by gkleinman
Here are my thoughts:

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=8168

This quote sums up my feelings on the series perfectly (the first two anyway).

"What began as an interesting philosophy discussion in The Matrix has quickly degraded into pseudo-intellectual babble, Matrix Revolutions is a balls-to-the-all action film, you'll be happiest if you leave your brain at the door. "

They're great action movies, enjoy them for what they are, ignore that the W bros. want them to be more than that.

PixyJunket 11-05-03 12:04 PM

"Silly humans, Matrix is for kids!" -- Gregory Weinkauf, NEW TIMES

:lol: So true.. so true.. :lol:

DonnachaOne 11-05-03 12:06 PM

Well...

... I dug it.

Much better editing and pacing, beautiful effects, no overuse of slo-mo kung fu and characters knew when to shut the hell up.

Is it as good as it could, or should, be? No. But I liked it.

RocShemp 11-05-03 12:08 PM

I think the following review, taken from IMDB, most closely resembles my friends' feelings about this third film:

Spoiler:
machnoo
Canada

Date: 2 November 2003
Summary: Do you want to know why Matrix Trilogy is the best? here is why....

The Matrix was all about mystery and intrigue and suspense of the matrix, thats why it was so popular, it had ideas very seldom explored and fight scenes very seldom created to look so real

The Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions are completely different films because we already know what the matrix is, the wachowski`s didnt want to make another mystery which would undermine the mystery of the matrix, the fight scenes are the same because this is not the Axis or Plasticman where new techniques are employed, Bullet time is a part of the Matrix and was kept as a part of reloaded and revolutions because that is a part of the action scenes core in these movies, only that it was made better in reloaded and revolutions, the only addition was virtual cinematography in that they made the most human lookalikes we have seen on screen, while many common movie goers didnt realise the breakthrough they made in this, its still a breakthrough, although not as big as bullet time but it still is, remember that bullet time is the essence of the fighting scheme in the Matrix, bullet time is there because the speed and impossibility of the scenes and you want to look slowly and closely, Reloaded combined Virtual Cinematography and Bullet time when Neo goes spinning in the air with the pole. video game graphics or not video game graphics that is the closest to CGI humans zoomed in we have ever seen, and probably will ever see in a while.

Revolutions was about the philosophy of the matrix, with what is the matrix known, the mystery known and the intrigue out of the way, Reloaded was now solely putting its story pattern on How neo is going to save Zion and if he really can save it, Remember that the original just showed us what is the Matrix, we were so enthralled, there was no need to explore any further, this time what was explored was what is Zion, which brings us to the pacing of the movie, Zion had to be paced slowly and matrix quicker because we know what the matrix is but knew hardly anything about What is Zion, Who are the people of Zion and What kind of values and beliefs they carry.

Revolutions on the other hand is the resolution of the story once and for all, it is the end of this particular story, it explains what happens to neo and it tells us how it happens, I dont need to explain the action scenes as they speak for themselves in TV spots but the story is important here, The story is about Neo saving Humans in Zion and Rogue programs in the Matrix, Remember that Neo is here to save the world, save humanity, a Machine program can also be human like a rogue program for instance Sati, who is the formation of two rogue programs the two indian people who loved and produced Sati, Sati is acknowledgment that the Matrix was not only a slave for the humans but it became the breeding ground of programs who thought they were human and which acted human, Neo chose to save both, if he just destroyed the Matrix, those hundreds of rogue programs who are as human as they come (Merovingian is a perfect example of being human, he wanted more and more power and was greedy and malicious, this is a characteristic of an evil human), he couldnt let both forms of humanity die, even if one was real to him one was not, but both could think, hate and love and fight, Neo realised from the Oracle that she desperately wanted to survive and let other rogue programs survive too, why else do you think as a rogue program she wanted to help Neo destroy the Matrix. she never said i will help you in destroying the Matrix, remember in Reloaded she said the only way to get there is together, that is the time the path of neo as the savior of the WORLD began and it ended when Neo says "Because I chose to".

So before all this monotonous thinking that Matrix story is better than the other and this is better than the other is all false, the story is all one, it is the journey of Neo from realising that he like Jesus was not only the savior of those who believed in him, but that he would be the saviour of all humans in all forms colors and shapes, thus the power of christianity, because he gave his life to protect his own disciples and so people realise he did this for everyone to finally believe in him


Of course, the big difference here is that my friends' feel a sequel is set up at the end of this film.

raven56706 11-05-03 12:14 PM

Just saw it....... awesome..... f$%^ the critics.


Dont believe. Great movie...

PixyJunket 11-05-03 12:15 PM

"Please someone, get me the blue pill. I want to forget that this ambitious and noteworthy series is ending so weakly." -- Nell Minow, MOVIE MOM AT YAHOO! MOVIES

"So disappointing they may as well have bussed in Ewoks to save Zion." -- Christopher Null, FILMCRITIC.COM

(These are my exact feelings) -> "After all is said and done, I wish they would have left the trilogy to one." -- Danny Minton, KBTV-NBC (BEAUMONT, TX)

"The Matrix Revolutions sucks." -- Peter Travers, ROLLING STONE

"How did something that started out so cool get so dorky?" -- Manohla Dargis, LOS ANGELES TIMES

"It feels tired, recycled and redundant as it shares many of the same faults that made the second installment a disappointing sequel for those who loved the original." -- Jim Judy, SCREEN IT!

"Louder, longer, more expensive and dumber than its predecessors, Revolutions is a mediocrity that will provide escapism only to those who head for the theater exits." -- Colin Covert, MINNEAPOLIS STAR TRIBUNE

"Drunk on itself and the possibilities of cinema to present allegory in grandiloquent gestures and crushing self-importance." -- Walter Chaw, FILM FREAK CENTRAL

"Revolutions is nothing more than a 'B' movie script with an 'A' movie budget." -- Cherryl Dawson and Leigh Ann Palone, THEMOVIECHICKS.COM

"The good news is that Neo Christ Superstar is indeed an improvement over its buzz-kill predecessor. The bad news is that it's still terrible." -- Sean Burns, PHILADELPHIA WEEKLY

"Confronting Matrix Revolutions, you need your own veil of unreality just to wade through the misappropriated metaphors." -- John Anderson, NEWSDAY




15% on the "Cream of the Crop" Reports. :)

devilshalo 11-05-03 12:25 PM

Spoiler:
I can sort of see Neo as the savior, but I didn't understand how the machines and he come to that agreement about Smith so quickly. I wish we could have seen more of what Smith was trying to do which, it seems, was to end all life, human and machine. I didn't get that feel I guess because I didn't see the machine point of view. It would also seem that Smith should have been smarter than that and by taking over both worlds, he would esentially kill himself. When the end came for Smith, I almost expected Morpheus and a squiddie to shake hands and part ways. The ending was rather anti-climatic between the Oracle and the Architect and I never got that Sita (sp?) was the One. She seemed a product that would allow the machines to understand in human terms.


Overall, I liked it a lot better than Reloaded. I still feel the original Matrix should have been it.

Rypro 525 11-05-03 01:23 PM

somebody told me that at the end of the movie
Spoiler:
Trinity dies
is that true? they saw the sneak peek last night.

devilshalo 11-05-03 01:25 PM


Originally posted by Rypro 525
somebody told me that at the end of the movie
Spoiler:
Trinity dies
is that true? they saw the sneak peek last night.

Spoiler:
She dies, but not at the end. She's piloting a ship to machine city with Neo and they crash.

Revoltor 11-05-03 01:27 PM

It's a hundred times better than Reloaded.

But the original Matrix is 1000 times better than both combined.

The only true flaw I could find is that they had 20-30 minutes worth of story stretched out to 2 hours. Not cool.

The ending is pure garbage too.

Daytrip 11-05-03 01:44 PM

is there anything after the credits?

DonnachaOne 11-05-03 02:13 PM


Originally posted by Daytrip
is there anything after the credits?
No. Did you think there would be?

Giantrobo 11-05-03 02:22 PM


Originally posted by aroney
It always amazes me how we (critics especially) always tear down something once it rises above cult popularity. The list is endless.

The Matrix series is simply a comic book (Heavy Metal or Metal Hurlant for the french) on the screen. It's that simple. And, as that, it works.

Did we (critics) actually think the mysteries of the universe were going to solved for us? C'mon, get serious.


Thank you!

It's just a movie. Enjoy it for what it is.

Daytrip 11-05-03 02:35 PM


Originally posted by DonnachaOne
No. Did you think there would be?
no i just didn't want to set through 3 hours of credits to not see anything

MasterofDVD 11-05-03 02:50 PM

While it did fall short in a few areas I'm sure when the DVD comes out I'll enjoy it more.

I watch Reloaded 6 times on release day and enjoyed it more and more each time. There is a vast amount to take in and process.

Best movie ever?
Hell no

Best Matrix film?
Not a chance

Best action ever?
Hmmmm....could be

Worth seeing in the theater, buying the DVD, collecting the toys, statues posters, books and other items.
Yes....it's a great trilogy and far more than a mere action film

Rypro 525 11-05-03 03:03 PM

also i read a while back in entertainment weekly about something like a 15 min helicopter chase. is this true? glad to see that there are more gun fights then in reloaded. And please tell me that they got rid of neo flying.

evenflow 11-05-03 03:09 PM


Originally posted by Rypro 525
also i read a while back in entertainment weekly about something like a 15 min helicopter chase. is this true? glad to see that there are more gun fights then in reloaded. And please tell me that they got rid of neo flying.
Just go see the movie!

Rypro 525 11-05-03 03:24 PM

alright i;ll shut up and see the movie

cartman 11-05-03 03:49 PM

I really do not understand why this movie is getting bashed the way it has. I really enjoyed it, and thought it ended the trilogy nicely.

Why are people having problems with the ending? Was it the way it was shown? do they (you?) feel it was anticlimactic? After my initial viewing, I like Revolutions more than Reloaded.

Going into the movie, I was really wondering if I would have like The Matrix to have been the only film, but I am pleased with how it has played out. I'm looking forward to seeing it on the Imax now :).

Angel Pagan 11-05-03 04:17 PM

I thought the Neo/Smith final fight was too long but thought the movie was good nonetheless.


I'm looking forward to seeing it on the Imax now .
Same here.

devilshalo 11-05-03 04:24 PM

What's wrong with Neo flying? It means one thing...

Wachowski's (Warner's Golden Boys) direct Superman.
As long as they don't write the script
'nuff said.

tenaciousdave 11-05-03 04:32 PM

I thought the movie was really good. Not great, but really good.

balancer 11-05-03 04:42 PM


Originally posted by Giantrobo
Thank you!

It's just a movie. Enjoy it for what it is.


I dont' understand this thinking. What if it is bad? How do you enjoy a bad movie? I can take stuff with a grain of salt, watch and enjoy cheese popcorn movies, whatever, but if this is as bad or possiby worse than Reloaded, I'll pass

Daytrip 11-05-03 04:44 PM

who's to say it's bad? you won't know untill you see it

condorito 11-05-03 04:52 PM


Originally posted by Rypro 525
also i read a while back in entertainment weekly about something like a 15 min helicopter chase. is this true? glad to see that there are more gun fights then in reloaded. And please tell me that they got rid of neo flying.
???? yeah i think i saw this too
Spoiler:
but its not in the movie, were they referring to hovercraft chase then?

Anyways I liked the movie, and agent smith just owns too much
He was born to be agentsmith, his mission in this planet is now complete.

Daytrip 11-05-03 04:54 PM

hugo weaving rules........even as Elrond in LOTR

Saxofonix 11-05-03 05:00 PM

I'm baffled by those here that ask spoiler-heavy questions such as whether
Spoiler:
Trinity dies or not .. or whether Neo dies at the end, or not.
Why would anyone want to know such crucial plot points before the time ?? I just don't get it.

Anyway .. I *really* enjoyed the movie. The action sequences are truly breath-taking, especially the main battle sequence. The Neo / Agent Smith fight sequences were also spectacular, with amazing special effects.

For me it improved on the 2nd movie in that there is much less of the meandering philosophising, and the movie concentrates on action. All in all .. for me, this will be *the* action movie to beat.

I have two gripes with the movie though ..
1.
Spoiler:
the ending, which seems rushed to just have some kind of sweet ending.


2.
Spoiler:
none of the questions posed in the 2nd movie are addressed at all.
... which makes me think that the Matrix won't remain a trilogy. And I for one, will be there to see the next installment should there be one.

Rogue588 11-05-03 05:03 PM

Since it gives critics an opportunity trot out "witticisms" like:
  • "Please someone, get me the blue pill. I want to forget that this ambitious and noteworthy series is ending so weakly." -- Nell Minow, MOVIE MOM AT YAHOO! MOVIES
  • "So disappointing they may as well have bussed in Ewoks to save Zion." -- Christopher Null, FILMCRITIC.COM
  • "Drunk on itself and the possibilities of cinema to present allegory in grandiloquent gestures and crushing self-importance." -- Walter Chaw, FILM FREAK CENTRAL
  • "The good news is that Neo Christ Superstar is indeed an improvement over its buzz-kill predecessor. The bad news is that it's still terrible." -- Sean Burns, PHILADELPHIA WEEKLY
whew. good stuff there..

-rolleyes-

LivingINClip 11-05-03 05:26 PM

Alright..

Let me say this, I thought the first one was a good popcorn flick and should of been left at that. It could of been an excellent film, if just left alone. Then Reloaded came out , and a lot of people, including myself was extremely dissapointed. It was pretenious, boring and all around a diaster. It lost everything the first one had. After that, I had little interest in see'ing the series progress, but I had to see how it ended. Here comes Revolution's... What can I say? It is not near as good as the original Matrix, but it's better than Reloaded - which isn't saying a lot. Most of the film (70% ) doesn't take place in the Matrix, which takes quite abit away from it. The CG is still weak (most notably the machines ripped from Aliens). The acting is still alittle-bit out there , but it somehow seems better than Reloaded. All in all, I didn't enjoy it much, until the end. I loved the Neo Vs Smith fight near the end. It made me want the Washowsi (or however you spell it) direct a new Superman film. They have the flying, the fighting and everything down pat. With all that said, I still don't think this was a fitting way to end the trilogy. Then again, a series like this, that had a great start, medicore middle is bound to dissapoint in the end. There was no clear cut way to end this, and maybe that is why they shouldn't of bothered with the sequels , in my opinion.

And with that said, am I the only one who felt after watching Revolutions, that it seemed like the second one was entirely unnessarcy for the most part? I sat through the second one, all through the pretenious dialouge, the zillion questions it posed and by the end of the third - most of them was either forgotten or truly just void. All the second one seemed to do was interduce 'Kid', 'Serph' (Orcale's Bodyguard), 'The Architech' and 'Merv' (French man). It seems as though Reloaded was nothing but filler, where as the real story started with original and picked back up in Revolutions.

Also , I think it is safe to say they hinted towards a sequel at the end of this one. Will it happen? I don't know. I have to say I doubt it. The series has received a fair amount of backlash since Reloaded came out and now Revolutions, and the only true reason Revolutions is goin' to bring in the money is so people know how it "ends" and that is what WB is banking on. I doubt people will really care if Neo or the gang come back in a few years for another installment. I know I won't.

mikehunt 11-05-03 05:29 PM

just got back
I really don't know how I feel about it. probably the first movie ever where I left and wasn't sure if it was good or bad

mikehunt 11-05-03 05:39 PM

I'll spoiler this, responds to the three points
Spoiler:
15min helicopter chase? no
I think there were 2 gunfights, unless you count the mecha things
neo and smith both fly



Originally posted by Rypro 525
also i read a while back in entertainment weekly about something like a 15 min helicopter chase. is this true? glad to see that there are more gun fights then in reloaded. And please tell me that they got rid of neo flying.

sho kosugi 11-05-03 06:45 PM

Just got back:

During Reloaded I hated the Zion parts. So I was surprised that I was so into the Zion battle. The part I was looking forward to (neo/Smith) I thought was a let down, can't say why though, just a feeling.

I really dug the parts in the Matrix during Reloaded. The first 10-15 minutes had that feel, wish it was more.

Patman 11-05-03 06:46 PM

I found the film pretty engrossing once you get past the first 10 minutes of the film. There's quite a lot to digest, I was dazzled by the action sequences, and the impact and import of them. To me, it's one thing to have mindless action for action's sake, but action in this film is used to drive the plot along to some rather interesting results and reprieves.

The gist of the Matrix trilogy to me is making that singular connection that overwhelms your total sense of self and enables you to find the courage to make things better for others, which becomes its just rewards for your own self worth and peace of mind.

I think the middle act and the last act are some of the best action scenes I've seen put into one movie in quite a long time. Is it exhausting? Yes, but in a good way.

Will all your questions be answered? No, but life's funny like that.

I give it 3.5 stars, or a grade of A-.

sho kosugi 11-05-03 06:47 PM

Did the actor who played Bane have his lines dubed by Hugo W.?
Or was the actor just doing a voice impersonation. If so it was right on.

boredsilly 11-05-03 06:54 PM

I saw the flick this afternoon and I didn't much like it at all, but I had fun watching it. Why? Every time the movie got a little preachy (like every 8th minute) the theatre would erupt with laughter. Nobody took the flick as a serious action movie but instead treated it like an ep of MST3k complete with random comments and all.

mdc3000 11-05-03 06:59 PM

Well, I saw the IMAX edition TWICE today. I really enjoyed the flick, but thought the first 25-40 minutes were rather dull and redundant. If the film had started with Bane waking up and Neo setting out for Machine City I think it would have ruled.

The action scenes were great but there wasn't enough emotional or intellectual payoff to the characters set up in Reloaded...and many of them seemed like filler....

I think that I could take Reloaded and Revolutions and edit them together into 1 completely kick ass movie... the stuff I'd take out you wouldn't miss and it wouldn't drastically change the meaning of the piece (most of the philosophical mumbo jumbo...sounds like a philosophy 101 text book)

So overall I liked it, but really wish they had just made one lean mean movie, rather than two bloated average flicks.

3.5 out of 5

MATT


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