Star Trek the Motion Picture
#1
Star Trek the Motion Picture
Believe it or not, I actually really watched this movie for the first time tonight. Oh, I've seen it before, but always on TV with other distractions so I never really sat down and watched it all the way thru and paid attention to all the details. And I watched the bonus features disc that came with the DVD as well.
I have some questions about this movie. First off, why are people so ultra pissed at Lucas for wanting to release director's cuts of his movies when Robert Wise released a director's cut of The Motion Picture and the original theatrical cut isn't on DVD at all. Granted, changes like Han shooting first and lame ass song sequences in ROTJ are quite unforgiveable, no matter who did the changes, and probably cannot compare to the changes made in the Motion Picture, but the spirit behind the changes are the same: both directors felt their work was unfinished and wanted to finish the work at a later date and give the fans a director's cut. Are fans of the Motion Picture crying about the lack of the original theatrical cut on DVD? Have their childhoods been raped? Where are all the "Robert Wi$e" bashing threads on the message boards? And does Lucas look at the acceptance Robert Wise gets and feels really, really cheesed off? (and PLEASE, let's not turn this thread into another Lucas thread!)
I was also wondering what the fan reaction to the Klingons were when this came out. Considering how fickle Trek fans are to ANY changes in their precious franchise today, I cannot imagine what they thought when they saw the Klingons in this movie looking completely different from what they grew up on in the late 60s.
And I also noticed the movie was rated G when it came out. Why was the rating on the movie changed? Now it's PG??? Did Eisner decide to take the G rating with him when he jumped ship from Paramount to Disney and make it only suitable for Disney movies (I only ask this in sarcasm, I know that's not the case). As far as I can see, there is no reason to not keep a G rating on this movie after nearly 25 years.
Also, on the bonus features disc, why do they ALWAYS skip right past the animated series??? It's like they talk about the original series, the syndication run, and then the movie. Is the animated series the bastard of Star Trek?
I have some questions about this movie. First off, why are people so ultra pissed at Lucas for wanting to release director's cuts of his movies when Robert Wise released a director's cut of The Motion Picture and the original theatrical cut isn't on DVD at all. Granted, changes like Han shooting first and lame ass song sequences in ROTJ are quite unforgiveable, no matter who did the changes, and probably cannot compare to the changes made in the Motion Picture, but the spirit behind the changes are the same: both directors felt their work was unfinished and wanted to finish the work at a later date and give the fans a director's cut. Are fans of the Motion Picture crying about the lack of the original theatrical cut on DVD? Have their childhoods been raped? Where are all the "Robert Wi$e" bashing threads on the message boards? And does Lucas look at the acceptance Robert Wise gets and feels really, really cheesed off? (and PLEASE, let's not turn this thread into another Lucas thread!)
I was also wondering what the fan reaction to the Klingons were when this came out. Considering how fickle Trek fans are to ANY changes in their precious franchise today, I cannot imagine what they thought when they saw the Klingons in this movie looking completely different from what they grew up on in the late 60s.
And I also noticed the movie was rated G when it came out. Why was the rating on the movie changed? Now it's PG??? Did Eisner decide to take the G rating with him when he jumped ship from Paramount to Disney and make it only suitable for Disney movies (I only ask this in sarcasm, I know that's not the case). As far as I can see, there is no reason to not keep a G rating on this movie after nearly 25 years.
Also, on the bonus features disc, why do they ALWAYS skip right past the animated series??? It's like they talk about the original series, the syndication run, and then the movie. Is the animated series the bastard of Star Trek?
Last edited by calhoun07; 10-14-03 at 11:31 PM.
#2
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Maybe nobody cares if Wise did his director's cut because most ST fans feel that the spirit of ST wasn't evident in the Motion Picture. The feel of the TV show just wasn't there along with the look. It wasn't until ST 2 came out that fans felt a real ST movie had been released. SW on the other hand is beloved by all and was the first out of the gate compared to ST so fans want to keep that original feel that they had when it was first released. When ST: TMP was released fans went to see it just because it was ST but it was so unlike the series that they didn't know if they liked it or not. So the two franchise's fans have very different feelings for the first movie for different reasons. At least that's the sense I get from talking with fans from both. I'll also admit to being a big ST fan but I've since lost that feeling for the franchise.
#5
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by calhoun07
Granted, changes like Han shooting first and lame ass song sequences in ROTJ are quite unforgiveable, no matter who did the changes, and probably cannot compare to the changes made in the Motion Picture
Granted, changes like Han shooting first and lame ass song sequences in ROTJ are quite unforgiveable, no matter who did the changes, and probably cannot compare to the changes made in the Motion Picture
Originally posted by chipmac
I'll also admit to being a big ST fan but I've since lost that feeling for the franchise.
I'll also admit to being a big ST fan but I've since lost that feeling for the franchise.
#6
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Star Trek - The Motion Picture, The Director's Cut is a much better movie than Star Trek - The Motion Picture.
Star Wars - A New Hope, Special Edition is a worse movie than Star Wars.
It ain't too complicated, folks.
Star Wars - A New Hope, Special Edition is a worse movie than Star Wars.
It ain't too complicated, folks.
#8
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
I thought the director's cut ADDED film footage.
How could that make it better?
IMO I am very surprised that the Trek franchise lasted after that movie.
I think the movie should be PG, I think there is a "Damn" in there plus all the Klingons being destroyed in the beginning. It is too intense for kids.
How could that make it better?
IMO I am very surprised that the Trek franchise lasted after that movie.
I think the movie should be PG, I think there is a "Damn" in there plus all the Klingons being destroyed in the beginning. It is too intense for kids.
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I'm not a hardcore Trek fan, but loved the new version, and in fact this has become my favorite of the series. It feels like the most serious "sci-fi" Star Trek to me, and it just seems to have more of a big, grand, cinematic feel to it than the others. Also, I got a bit turned off by the soap-opera type plots of many of the subsequent TV shows, as it seemed like too many of the alien species all just acted like humans---there wasn't enough of that wierd, unknown sense of the mystery of the universe that I felt was present in ST:TMP. I can see where people might think it's kind of slow and boring at times, but I enjoyed that slower pace, and long, drawn out FX shots.
#10
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ST TMP was rushed thru production to meet a release date that Paramount had promised to the theaters over a year in advance.
Lucas was under a time crunch, but he allowed it to exist under his complete control for nearly 20 years before deciding he wanted to change. Wise knew immediately he wanted to fix stuff. This was even attempted with the home video version that added 17 minutes.
And there are many discussions on the net about the Klingons' look. The easiest one is multiple races within the Empire that rise to and fall from power over the series.
Lucas was under a time crunch, but he allowed it to exist under his complete control for nearly 20 years before deciding he wanted to change. Wise knew immediately he wanted to fix stuff. This was even attempted with the home video version that added 17 minutes.
And there are many discussions on the net about the Klingons' look. The easiest one is multiple races within the Empire that rise to and fall from power over the series.
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I thought the director's cut ADDED film footage.
How many minutes can you watch George Takei look pensively at a viewscreen, anyways?
#12
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Originally posted by milo bloom
ST TMP was rushed thru production to meet a release date that Paramount had promised to the theaters over a year in advance.
Lucas was under a time crunch, but he allowed it to exist under his complete control for nearly 20 years before deciding he wanted to change. Wise knew immediately he wanted to fix stuff. This was even attempted with the home video version that added 17 minutes.
ST TMP was rushed thru production to meet a release date that Paramount had promised to the theaters over a year in advance.
Lucas was under a time crunch, but he allowed it to exist under his complete control for nearly 20 years before deciding he wanted to change. Wise knew immediately he wanted to fix stuff. This was even attempted with the home video version that added 17 minutes.
The reason you see "Luca$" threads and not "Wi$e" threads is because of inexplicable substantive changes versus "how the director originally intended it".
#13
Thanks for the responses, but there are a couple questions I had that didn't get addressed:
Somebody mentioned the PG rating today would be ok because somebody said damn and Klingons get killed in the beginning. I've seen more violence in some animated movies that are rated G. I just don't understand why the MPAA would rate it G in 1979 then change it later on. Was this something that has happened a lot? Did they permit more in movies back in the 70s? Have PG rated movies been like wise re-rated R or pg-13?
And what about the changes to those Klingons and the animated series?
I was also wondering what the fan reaction to the Klingons were when this came out. Considering how fickle Trek fans are to ANY changes in their precious franchise today, I cannot imagine what they thought when they saw the Klingons in this movie looking completely different from what they grew up on in the late 60s.
And I also noticed the movie was rated G when it came out. Why was the rating on the movie changed? Now it's PG??? Did Eisner decide to take the G rating with him when he jumped ship from Paramount to Disney and make it only suitable for Disney movies (I only ask this in sarcasm, I know that's not the case). As far as I can see, there is no reason to not keep a G rating on this movie after nearly 25 years.
Also, on the bonus features disc, why do they ALWAYS skip right past the animated series??? It's like they talk about the original series, the syndication run, and then the movie. Is the animated series the bastard of Star Trek?
And I also noticed the movie was rated G when it came out. Why was the rating on the movie changed? Now it's PG??? Did Eisner decide to take the G rating with him when he jumped ship from Paramount to Disney and make it only suitable for Disney movies (I only ask this in sarcasm, I know that's not the case). As far as I can see, there is no reason to not keep a G rating on this movie after nearly 25 years.
Also, on the bonus features disc, why do they ALWAYS skip right past the animated series??? It's like they talk about the original series, the syndication run, and then the movie. Is the animated series the bastard of Star Trek?
And what about the changes to those Klingons and the animated series?
#14
DVD Talk Hero
Looking for consistency in the MPAA is an exercise in futility.
As for the Klingons, while milo has provided a potential theory, the answer I've believed for the last ~25 years is that Klingons in TOS (those traveling far from their homeworld on specific space missions) were physically altered to better infiltrate the perceived threat of the Federation. It was a temporary thing that few felt comfortable with and only affected a small portion of their space program. It was quickly ditched as power shifted in the Empire and dismissed as an embarrassing chapter of Klingon history that isn't talked about.
das
As for the Klingons, while milo has provided a potential theory, the answer I've believed for the last ~25 years is that Klingons in TOS (those traveling far from their homeworld on specific space missions) were physically altered to better infiltrate the perceived threat of the Federation. It was a temporary thing that few felt comfortable with and only affected a small portion of their space program. It was quickly ditched as power shifted in the Empire and dismissed as an embarrassing chapter of Klingon history that isn't talked about.
das
#15
DVD Talk Legend
From what I've read, Star Trek: The Motion Picture was delivered to theaters incomplete. They were so far behind that they were still editing the movie on the day of the premiere (the print shown at the premiere was the original work print and lacked several musical cues) and they were taking completed reels and putting them in fed-ex mailers to theaters before they were even dry from developing. Its no surprise that fans have accepted a finally completed version of this film. The DVD cut is easily the best version of this movie ever released.
#16
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by das Monkey
Looking for consistency in the MPAA is an exercise in futility.
As for the Klingons, while milo has provided a potential theory, the answer I've believed for the last ~25 years is that Klingons in TOS (those traveling far from their homeworld on specific space missions) were physically altered to better infiltrate the perceived threat of the Federation. It was a temporary thing that few felt comfortable with and only affected a small portion of their space program. It was quickly ditched as power shifted in the Empire and dismissed as an embarrassing chapter of Klingon history that isn't talked about.
das
Looking for consistency in the MPAA is an exercise in futility.
As for the Klingons, while milo has provided a potential theory, the answer I've believed for the last ~25 years is that Klingons in TOS (those traveling far from their homeworld on specific space missions) were physically altered to better infiltrate the perceived threat of the Federation. It was a temporary thing that few felt comfortable with and only affected a small portion of their space program. It was quickly ditched as power shifted in the Empire and dismissed as an embarrassing chapter of Klingon history that isn't talked about.
das
#17
DVD Talk Hero
• Quoth al_bundy •<HR SIZE=1>Something similar. In one episode of TNG or DS9 they go back in time to the TOS episode about tribbles. Worf is asked about the funny looking klingons and he says that it isn't talked about. <HR SIZE=1>
DS9 - 'Trials and Tribble-ations'
Terry Farrell in TOS go-go outfit.
das
#18
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by das Monkey
Looking for consistency in the MPAA is an exercise in futility.
As for the Klingons, while milo has provided a potential theory, the answer I've believed for the last ~25 years is that Klingons in TOS (those traveling far from their homeworld on specific space missions) were physically altered to better infiltrate the perceived threat of the Federation. It was a temporary thing that few felt comfortable with and only affected a small portion of their space program. It was quickly ditched as power shifted in the Empire and dismissed as an embarrassing chapter of Klingon history that isn't talked about.
das
Looking for consistency in the MPAA is an exercise in futility.
As for the Klingons, while milo has provided a potential theory, the answer I've believed for the last ~25 years is that Klingons in TOS (those traveling far from their homeworld on specific space missions) were physically altered to better infiltrate the perceived threat of the Federation. It was a temporary thing that few felt comfortable with and only affected a small portion of their space program. It was quickly ditched as power shifted in the Empire and dismissed as an embarrassing chapter of Klingon history that isn't talked about.
das
And either theory could be embarassing enough to a DS9 era Klingon to not want to discuss.
#19
DVD Talk Hero
• Quoth milo bloom •<HR SIZE=1>Not to start a pissing contest, but you could also say that the Klingons that would be near the Federation borders were chosen from the more human looking races of those in the Empire.<HR SIZE=1>
You could. You'd be wrong, but you could certainly say that.
I think the point we both agree on is that the Klingons that encountered the Federation in TOS times were intentionally made/chosen to look more like humans for infiltration, sabotage, and such. They weren't representative of the population on Qo'noS.
das
#20
Ok, I know all the stories behind the difference in Klingons on the series, but what I was really wondering about was what as the FAN REACTION to the new style of the Klingons in the movie when it first came out? What was fan reaction to the movie in general? I guess pretty darn good since a second movie got green lighted, and this was back in the day before Paramount felt the need to keep churing out movie after movie for the heck of keeping a dying franchise alive. It must have been really nice to see the franchise growing in popularity rather than dying in popularity, but that's probably another topic for a different thread!
#21
Senior Member
The MPAA ratings board has changed several times over the past 20 years. It could be that when Paramount submitted the new cut to them (and I don't see that any of the new stuff is PG worthy) the board may have taken the opportunity to reevaluate certain scenes. The final joining of Decker-Ilia/V'Ger, with its sexual implications. And the transporter scene, though not visually graphic, when coupled with that death-howl can be unnerving.
There used to be a magazine called Enterprise Incidents, published by James Van Hise (of RBCC). When ST:TMP first came out, the magazine featured an interview with Greg Jein, one of the film's model builders. (The interview appeared in issue #8 and was reprinted in Special Collector's Issue #6, January 1985)
Jein said that Paramount wanted the movie to get a G rating. In particular, he cited a scene where Ilia used her Deltan powers to heal Chekov, when his arm was burned, saying there was some sexual subtext to/tension in that scene. That scene was trimmed, but restored when ABC first showed the movie in 1983. It wasn't made clear if the 1979 trim was requested by the MPAA or if Paramount execs decided that on their own, before even submitting the film. Although that particular scene still came off as G-rated (by MPAA) when Paramount released the longer cut on home video in 1983, shortly after the ABC broadcast.
There used to be a magazine called Enterprise Incidents, published by James Van Hise (of RBCC). When ST:TMP first came out, the magazine featured an interview with Greg Jein, one of the film's model builders. (The interview appeared in issue #8 and was reprinted in Special Collector's Issue #6, January 1985)
Jein said that Paramount wanted the movie to get a G rating. In particular, he cited a scene where Ilia used her Deltan powers to heal Chekov, when his arm was burned, saying there was some sexual subtext to/tension in that scene. That scene was trimmed, but restored when ABC first showed the movie in 1983. It wasn't made clear if the 1979 trim was requested by the MPAA or if Paramount execs decided that on their own, before even submitting the film. Although that particular scene still came off as G-rated (by MPAA) when Paramount released the longer cut on home video in 1983, shortly after the ABC broadcast.
Last edited by digidoh; 05-23-15 at 10:28 AM. Reason: Added Jein's name and issue info