Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > Entertainment Discussions > Movie Talk
Reload this Page >

Lucas based the trench run on WWII movie?

Movie Talk A Discussion area for everything movie related including films In The Theaters

Lucas based the trench run on WWII movie?

Old 06-22-03, 08:04 PM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 822
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Lucas based the trench run on WWII movie?

Did anyone watch the History Channel special on Air Raids? The show was about the Lancaster Dambuster bombers. At one point during the show, they showed a clip from a movie about the bombing. The dialogue and actions were exactly the same from the Trench run in Stars Wars!
Old 06-22-03, 08:55 PM
  #2  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: NYC * See da name? Go get me some coffee...
Posts: 4,665
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Say on target!
Old 06-22-03, 09:07 PM
  #3  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I'm on the leader!
Old 06-22-03, 10:18 PM
  #4  
DVD Talk Hero - 2023 TOTY Award Winner
 
jfoobar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 46,562
Received 2,150 Likes on 1,213 Posts
They're just too...many...of them...*bang*
Old 06-22-03, 11:01 PM
  #5  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It not really news that Lucas borrowed from tons of oustide crap. He just managed to do a really good job with his "stolen goods"
Old 06-22-03, 11:08 PM
  #6  
Moderator
 
Groucho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 71,383
Received 122 Likes on 84 Posts
Bah! Next you'll be telling me The Matrix wasn't original either.
Old 06-22-03, 11:24 PM
  #7  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 3,818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Groucho
Bah! Next you'll be telling me The Matrix wasn't original either.
Hey Groucho, we get it!
Old 06-22-03, 11:42 PM
  #8  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: City of the lakers.. riots.. and drug dealing cops.. los(t) Angel(e)s. ca.
Posts: 54,199
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
You do realize that Lucas opening has admited that the trench run was story boarded by editing (he is a great editor and studied the craft) Old World War II air clips together and creating a story board so the special effects crew could prepare a sort of flying partner and the such.

So yes, the trench battle and x-wing battles were based off WWII clips edited together.
Old 06-22-03, 11:44 PM
  #9  
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Its on the Episode II DVD....
Old 06-23-03, 12:36 AM
  #10  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
OMG! Matrix is a half assed wannabe Terminator!

Rise of the Machines man! Rise of the Machines!!

(let's not mention the Highway battle in reloaded either)
Old 06-23-03, 12:47 AM
  #11  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Sitting on a beach, earning 20%
Posts: 9,917
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
I believe the film in question is an old Cliff Robertson film, 633 Squadron?
Old 06-23-03, 03:02 AM
  #12  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It's pretty common knowledge that Lucas was heavily influenced by WW2 dogfighting when he made Star Wars. He's said it himself.
Old 06-23-03, 03:48 PM
  #13  
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Right Behind You
Posts: 4,986
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So, then all this begs the questions..what was Lucas' influence when making pod-racing? Street racing?
Old 06-23-03, 03:58 PM
  #14  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: City of the lakers.. riots.. and drug dealing cops.. los(t) Angel(e)s. ca.
Posts: 54,199
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Pod racing was an idea he stole from some movie called "American Grafitti". Can't that bastard think of any original ideas himself??? Man, talk about unoriginality.


Lucas has had a life long love for racing growing up. so of course Pod racing would be a side of that love for "racing" in general.
Old 06-23-03, 04:00 PM
  #15  
DVD Talk Legend
 
calhoun07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,401
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally posted by lesterlong
So, then all this begs the questions..what was Lucas' influence when making pod-racing? Street racing?
That would have been The Fast and the Jedi Knight. I think the pod race was influenced more of the chariot race from Ben Hur.
Old 06-23-03, 04:35 PM
  #16  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Flava-Country!
Posts: 3,964
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by DonnachaOne
I believe the film in question is an old Cliff Robertson film, 633 Squadron?
The movie, as I understand it, is The Dam Busters from 1954. Sadly the movie never made it to LD/DVD and has long been out of print on VHS - so I've never actually confirmed this. But it's suppose to be just about the same.
Old 06-23-03, 05:50 PM
  #17  
DVD Talk Legend
 
DeputyDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 14,080
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally posted by lesterlong
So, then all this begs the questions..what was Lucas' influence when making pod-racing? Street racing?
He lifted it, scene for scene, from Biker Boyz
Old 06-23-03, 06:38 PM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 578
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If legend has it right, the work print of Star Wars that Fox executives first saw actually had WW II-era fighter combat sequences edited into it, because the trench run FX hadn't been completed yet.

The pod race is of course a direct, often shot-for-shot rip- er, homage to Ben Hur, as is the whole slave-racing-for-his-freedom thing.
Old 06-23-03, 08:04 PM
  #19  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Flava-Country!
Posts: 3,964
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Inverse
The pod race is of course a direct, often shot-for-shot rip- er, homage to Ben Hur, as is the whole slave-racing-for-his-freedom thing.
So here's a question, prompted by the jlib remark - where do you folks consider the homage to end and the ripping off to begin? I've heard some folks say that the Pod Race was ripped off (just one more strike against E1 in their mind) note for note from Ben Hur.

However these same folks have no problem with New Hope, and the Flash Gordon scrolling text, the Hidden Fortress bickering pair lost in the desert, or the Dam Busting climax.

Why do folks come down on one but not the other? I mean aside from the desire to rip Lucas a new one over every little detail in the new trilogy.
Old 06-24-03, 01:18 PM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
eh it's not half as bad as his EP1 theft from 5th Element
Old 06-24-03, 02:46 PM
  #21  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: City of the lakers.. riots.. and drug dealing cops.. los(t) Angel(e)s. ca.
Posts: 54,199
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally posted by Daytrip
eh it's not half as bad as his EP1 theft from 5th Element
Old 06-24-03, 04:02 PM
  #22  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Sitting on a beach, earning 20%
Posts: 9,917
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally posted by El-Kabong
The movie, as I understand it, is The Dam Busters from 1954. Sadly the movie never made it to LD/DVD and has long been out of print on VHS - so I've never actually confirmed this. But it's suppose to be just about the same.
Really? TDB has Lancaster bombers, which are fairly huge.

Also, you can get the DVD in r2. Chocks away, old boy, and tally-ho!
Old 06-24-03, 04:19 PM
  #23  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 23,225
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally posted by Daytrip
eh it's not half as bad as his EP1 theft from 5th Element
x2
Old 06-24-03, 05:23 PM
  #24  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 578
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The difference between the text crawl in Flash Gordon/Star Wars and the races in Ben Hur/Episode 1 is that the text crawl is a couple of minutes at the beginning, while the race sequence is a lengthy sequence at the pivotal point of the movie.

The text crawl in Star Wars is a brief wink to the audience saying, "You remember those old serials? This is going to be like that." With the pod race, though, the sequence goes on for quite a while, and you can practically hear Lucas saying, "Well, this whole setup worked in Ben Hur, so I'll just do it faster and flashier and the audience will eat it up."

So an homage is like a brief little footnote that aknowledges your influences, while a rip-off is like trying to cut and paste a big hunk of your influence and hoping that the audience will take it as your own. (Mind you, Lucas has always been forthcoming about his influences in print. But it's not like you were handed a set of detailed footnotes when you entered the theatre to see Episode 1.)

Re: Episode 1 and 5th Element. The futuristic cities in both had a similar vibe to them, what with the zillions of flying vehicles and everything. Though they're both firmly in a tradition of mondo-gigantic fururistic cities that goes back at least to Metropolis, and includes things like, say, the Jetsons.
Old 06-24-03, 05:42 PM
  #25  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: City of the lakers.. riots.. and drug dealing cops.. los(t) Angel(e)s. ca.
Posts: 54,199
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
So if any movie, comic or anything does a futuristic city with flying cars they are ripping it off of The Fifth element? this idea of the city of tomorrow has been around for ages. the only thing you can really say Ep 1 ripped off of the 5th element is it's ability to suck so badly.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.