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John Q (couldn't overlook all the errors)

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John Q (couldn't overlook all the errors)

Old 04-17-03, 12:42 PM
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John Q (couldn't overlook all the errors)

Did a search on this movie but since "John" doesn't narrow it down much I didn't find anything.

Spoilers below if you haven't seen the movie.

I thought this movie was horrible. I may have given it around 3 stars if they would have paid attention to the details, but there was basically a technical error every five minutes which completely took me out of the film. I will focus on a couple of the medical errors.

First of all, the kid is basically a code blue and all they do is throw a mask on him and look at him. Nice. Still, a minor error that most wouldn't think much of in the big scheme of things. But then to have him intubated and talking to his parents is not possible and was just plain stupid.

The whole blood pressure issue was poorly handled.

Of course the whole story about not getting him on the transplant list is not very accurate, but I'm sure it has happened though it is not the norm like this movie wants us to believe. Unless they had done the full work-up before the organ was available (which would have only been done if he was placed on the transplant list), then they would have not known if an available organ was compatible with him. Again, just sloppy.

They made the father of the woman in labor leave during the delivery? What???

Cardiac surgeon did an exploratory lap surgery on the gun shot victim with only Demerol and lidocaine (without anesthesia no less)?

Planned on doing an organ retrieval and transplant in the ER again without anesthesia, proper equipment, etc. There is just no way.

Plus the actual organ retrieval on the woman was again without anesthesia, no monitors were placed on her, don't remember seeing any IV's or meds going, and they didn't even prep her other than a quick line of betadine to the abdomen right before making the incision.

There were many other errors (medical and non-medical) but I think this a good starting point.

What did other people think of this film? Did any of the non-medical people not notice or care about the medical errors and think the movie was good? Other problems with this movie? I am interested in what people thought. Feel free to direct me to another thread if it is out there.

BTW: I understand movies are fictional, but when they are set in the "real world", (unlike Star Wars, LOTR, etc) then I think that they need to try a little harder to get the facts straight.
Old 04-17-03, 12:47 PM
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John Q's not a movie, it's a 90 minute infomercial for the democratic party and Hillary Clinton's failed healthcare reform program. This film was made by people w/ an anti-insurance company/anti-hmo agenda, they didn't care about facts. What were you watching it for...truth?
Old 04-17-03, 12:55 PM
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I had watched this movie (on DVD, not full movie theatre ticket price, thank god) with a friend of mine, who works for an HMO, and he just thought the movie was complete s***.
Old 04-17-03, 01:40 PM
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I thought this movie was great. It really should wake up people in this nation about the nature of our healthcare system. We have great doctors and great technology, but it's too bad most people can't afford to use it.
Old 04-17-03, 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by jiggawhat
I thought this movie was great. It really should wake up people in this nation about the nature of our healthcare system. We have great doctors and great technology, but it's too bad most people can't afford to use it.
I really don't want to get off topic, but this statement is so untrue. Most people can and do get the health care that they need, but a line needs to be drawn somewhere. What is your solution? Do you think a nationalized health care system will make doctors and technology more available to the public? Look at Canada if you really think this is true. More taxes to health care? What is the solution?

Looks like this fictional movie has some people believing it is more fact than fiction.
Old 04-17-03, 02:12 PM
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This is one of those movies... the first time I saw it (in theaters), I thought it was okay, but obviously flawed. The second time I realized I hated the movie. I'm not a medical expert, but it still seemed a bit farfetched. By biggest gripe is the film itself... it's so shameless in trying to play people's emotions, the dialog is filled with sloppily concealed speeches, and many of the characters were ridicluously over-the-top as do-gooders or villains (Anne Heche and Ray Liotta's characters being the worst). These medical flubs just make it worse.
Old 04-17-03, 02:43 PM
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And that scene with all the buffalo looked really fake, too.
Old 04-17-03, 02:58 PM
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I didn't want to get off-topic either when I posted my comments but a nationalized system might help or setting aside some our tax dollars to health care. If I was paying more in taxes and I knew that it was going to health care system that lowers the cost to get expensive surgery then yes, higher taxes wouldn't be that bad. The thing that upsets me is that so much our tax dolalrs go to waste when they could be used to give health care to people who can't afford it. Big surgeries aren't cheap. I know heart bypass surgery can reach up to $100K in some cases.

Most people do for the most part have access to checkups and prescriptions, but big surgeries tend to cost the people big money.

This movie is fictional but these things to happen to people. Maybe not to the extreme that this movie takes it too, but this is definitely something that does happen. I have seen it firsthand.
Old 04-17-03, 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by Ketamine
I really don't want to get off topic, but this statement is so untrue. Most people can and do get the health care that they need, but a line needs to be drawn somewhere. What is your solution? Do you think a nationalized health care system will make doctors and technology more available to the public? Look at Canada if you really think this is true. More taxes to health care? What is the solution?

Looks like this fictional movie has some people believing it is more fact than fiction.
I'll take my Canadian health care system over yours any day, thanks.
Old 04-17-03, 08:57 PM
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On topic: It was a movie, so I suspended disbelief and ignored the political message. I enjoyed the story of a father fighting for his child's survival.

But it clearly had a political agenda...

Off topic: While I'm skeptical we have a healthcare crisis today, I am a bit concerned. I have a very good job that has always had great benefits. My company has not had any economic difficulties in the past 3 years, yet in the course of those 3 years my out-of-pocket expenses have risen 1000%, because health insurance costs are rising, lockstep with healthcare costs...

I really wonder how some can afford healthcare...
Old 04-17-03, 10:03 PM
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I thought the trailers were good, but the movie wasn't so good.

Plot holes -

Why was the kid playing for the Orioles? I think the Pirates are better.
Why did that chicks hair turn from blonde to black? All she did was take off a wig.
Why did that fat kid from Boy Meets World get a job as hospital secutiry? He was obviously on track for greater things.
Old 04-17-03, 10:28 PM
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Ketamine- As a Medical Professional I can understand you beefs. You catch the errors that would be over the head of us non Medical Professionals.

The story was unbelievable ...but most Movies are. I mean JohnQ was much better than the myriad of "Hacker" movies I've seen.

I think I just came in looking for a story and I enjoyed it. I was happy to see a Father on screen devoted to his Son. I was happy to see a story about the backbone of the US. Sure the propaganda at times got a bit thick but in the end the movie was more positive than negative.

Sometimes I really wonder why people feel the need to politicize their lives to the point where they immediately shutdown if they see something that doesn't match their views. JohnQ did well at the box office so I'm going to assume that most people just took it as a decent movie and ignored most of the HMO bashing that went on.
Old 04-17-03, 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by hmurchison
Ketamine- As a Medical Professional I can understand you beefs. You catch the errors that would be over the head of us non Medical Professionals.

The story was unbelievable ...but most Movies are. I mean JohnQ was much better than the myriad of "Hacker" movies I've seen.

I thought it would be the case that non-medical people would not see the problems, but just wanted to be sure. I'm sure a majority of the summer blockbusters are this way, but unless it is in your field of study, mistakes are not noticed. Still, I just don't understand the mentality to let things like this go without someone overseeing the details. It really wouldn't cost them more money except a consultant fee. The return is that people like me would have said John Q was a good/great movie etc. instead of saying it was crap for all the mistakes. I would guess this would lead to better word of mouth which would translate into bigger box office takes and more dvd rentals/buys.

While I understand most medical issues will be over the majority of people's heads, others are just common sense. A perfect example is that you can't talk, whisper, or anything else when you have a breathing tube in place. I would guess that anyone that has had a sick family member in the hospital would know that. Instead of having this kid sit there and say he couldn't talk, why didn't they either 1) show him like they did they rest of the movie without a breathing tube or 2) have it in place and let the kid either not do anything or make a hand movement or anything else but talk. What was the point of having the kid say he couldn't talk? I'm sorry but that is possibly the dumbest thing ever to be put on film.
Old 04-18-03, 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by C.H.U.D.
I'll take my Canadian health care system over yours any day, thanks.
Good, you can keep it.

Some info that I have come across about Canadian health care :
(Iím no expert so if you have different numbers, then let me know)

It takes an average of 13 weeks to be seen and treated by a specialist in Canada.

Average wait for an MRI in Canada is 11 weeks and in some places over a year.

According to the Fraser Institute's annual survey of hospital waiting lists, the median patient waits 70% longer than is medically reasonable, in the view of their physicians. Waits for cardiac surgery are 145% longer than medically reasonable, 90% longer for orthopedics (hips and knees) and 75% longer for ophthalmologic (cataracts and lens replacement) surgery.

In a large number of cases, doctors must prescribe older, less effective drugs to cut costs.

Vancouver General Hospital estimates that 20 percent of heart attack patients, who should be treated in 15 minutes, are waiting an hour or more for care.


I have also seen how the US VA system (our version of socialized medicine) works and I wouldn't take my dogs to be treated there. The quality of care is horrible from incompetent doctors, nurses who don't do anything because they can't be fired, tests taking weeks to months to be read, patients waiting hours to get prescriptions filled, patients waiting months to see their doctor only to get a few short minutes with him until he has to move on to the next patient, and so on. I can't even begin to imagine how much money is wasted for such a poor level of care. I don't even want to know how many patients die each year due to poor health care. I don't want my government anywhere near our health care system. Sure, it needs improvement, but it isn't anywhere near what is portrayed in John Q. Socialized medicine is not the cure to our medical problems.
Old 04-18-03, 03:03 AM
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I agree with most of the sentiments of this thread. I do believe that HMO and especially insurance companies help lower the quality healthcare that people get. I am glad that the pendulum is finally starting to swing back with many doctors and patients being fed up with the current medical situation.

As for the movie I thought it was decent but definately had to turn of my brain for the medical aspect of it. They definately did not have a very competnant advisor on board. I mean come on, would any doctor remove a heart from a father who just shot himself in the head? without any help or equipment?

out of curiosity what is your medical background, Ketamine?
Old 04-18-03, 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by hmurchison
The story was unbelievable ...but most Movies are. I mean JohnQ was much better than the myriad of "Hacker" movies I've seen.
Was anyone else laughing out loud when they saw Hackers for the first time? It got even better once the "Secret Service" got after them.
Old 04-19-03, 01:43 AM
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Originally posted by Ketamine
I have also seen how the US VA system (our version of socialized medicine) works and I wouldn't take my dogs to be treated there. The quality of care is horrible from incompetent doctors, nurses who don't do anything because they can't be fired, tests taking weeks to months to be read, patients waiting hours to get prescriptions filled, patients waiting months to see their doctor only to get a few short minutes with him until he has to move on to the next patient, and so on. I can't even begin to imagine how much money is wasted for such a poor level of care. I don't even want to know how many patients die each year due to poor health care.
Gasp! The secret's out now, Ketamine....

I agree very much with your views, and was extremely frustrated and disheartened as a med student to see the truth behind the entire health care system. With medical technology advancing as incredibly fast as it is today, it has become the expectation of the nation to receive the "cutting edge" medical marvels at a fraction of the cost it actually takes to even provide it. I'm not going to open the pandora's box of "the rich can afford to pay for better care," but in today's HMO clime, I am really hard pressed to think of a feasible alternative.
Old 04-19-03, 08:45 AM
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one thing thats really weird, is when that woman dies in the beginning in the car accident (the one that ultimately gave heart to little boy) when they were cutting her up at the clinic to take her organs, the main guy there said, heart is okay, liver kidney and tissue okay, brain is okay, everything is fine, So my question is What the hell did she die from?????
Old 04-19-03, 11:27 AM
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one thing thats really weird, is when that woman dies in the beginning in the car accident (the one that ultimately gave heart to little boy) when they were cutting her up at the clinic to take her organs, the main guy there said, heart is okay, liver kidney and tissue okay, brain is okay, everything is fine, So my question is What the hell did she die from?????
Old 04-19-03, 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by MarcinL
one thing thats really weird, is when that woman dies in the beginning in the car accident (the one that ultimately gave heart to little boy) when they were cutting her up at the clinic to take her organs, the main guy there said, heart is okay, liver kidney and tissue okay, brain is okay, everything is fine, So my question is What the hell did she die from?????
LMAO
Old 04-20-03, 01:06 AM
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Know why I hate this movie?

The trailer played in front of "Fellowship of the Ring" every time I saw it in the theater.

I mean, it's LORD OF THE FRICKING RINGS!

And the trailer they deem appropriate to play in front of it looked like a Lifetime Original Movie with a SWAT Team.

yeesh.
Old 04-21-03, 10:53 AM
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For those who liked John Q...I highly recomend The Life of David Gale
Old 04-23-03, 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by tanman

out of curiosity what is your medical background, Ketamine?
3rd year anesthesia resident
Old 04-23-03, 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by Ketamine
3rd year anesthesia resident


ahh....I thought anasthesia was a fellowship. You don't have to go through an internal medicine residency first?

Also can you explain why anesthesia nurses make such a high end, six figure salary.
Old 04-23-03, 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by tanman
ahh....I thought anasthesia was a fellowship. You don't have to go through an internal medicine residency first?

Also can you explain why anesthesia nurses make such a high end, six figure salary.
Because it's easier to kill someone than put them to sleep?


That's just an uninformed guess.

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