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I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

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I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Old 12-02-23, 11:56 AM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Originally Posted by rocket1312
We just had a new non-superhero comic book movie from David Fincher like 3 weeks ago.
I totally forgot about that one. I need to check it out.

Originally Posted by Crocker Jarmen
Off the top of my head, this year's Shortcomings, an adaptation of a story from Adrian Tomine's comic Optic Nerve, which is one of the most enjoyable movies I've seen this year.
Never hear about that one. I'll have to check if it's on any of the services I'm subscribed to.

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Old 12-02-23, 01:53 PM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Originally Posted by RocShemp
I think that honor goes to 2013's Blue Is The Warmest Color. Although that's off the top of my head. There may have been other, more recent non-superhero movies.
I'm sure there are examples every year, but Road to Perdition is the go to example for 20 years now, probably because it is a mainstream movie with well respected talent in front of and behind the camera. Ghost World or Blue is the Warmest Color are more or less niche.

Originally Posted by RocShemp
Might I also add Logan to your examples? That one can easily be summed up as "a terminally ill man, taking care of his mentally deteriorating father figure, meets the child he never knew he had". Yes, there are villainous antagonists, but at its essence it's about facing the inevitability of death, coming to grips with one's past, and what (if anything) we leave behind.
Logan is an excellent example and although they are mainstream popcorn movies The Guardians of the Galaxy could exist in a totally non superhero universe, since they are basically are space adventure movies lilke Serenity, Lost in Space or The Fifth Element.

I think the MCU just has to stop playing it safe. I don't think people would stop watching if Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness would have been a full on horror movie. Not every MCU movie has to be kids friendly, most Batman movies aren't, and not every MCU movie has to cost 200-250m.
The MCU shows have a little more range. There is mainstream stuff but WandaVision, Loki, Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk tried something different and only She-Hulk didn't work, but it wasn't the wrong premise, it was just not funny and looked cheap.
Old 12-02-23, 02:19 PM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Originally Posted by Runaway
Is she though? She is just critizising the genre and making the point the genre is just a phase, a surprisingly long one. Most phases are pretty short. After Lord of the Rings we had Eragon, The Golden Compass, Narnia and some other stuff most of which not succesful. A couple of years ago we had the young adult adaptations of Twilight, The Hunger Games, Divergent, Maze Runner. After the success of Scream we had a resurgence of teenie slashers, whic had faded into obscurity. The Farrelly brothers spawned a phase of fart joke comedies.

Comic book movies are more like Westerns the dominant genre, but not the only one and no one is saying it's the only genre.
She is saying it. There are many genres. Don't like one, don't watch it. Why complain about a genre no one is forcing you to watch. I.e. I dont watch Bollywood films. Others do. I don't complian about them...
Old 12-02-23, 02:42 PM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Yes, all trends come and go. The erotic thriller. Westerns. Neil-Simon-inspired dramas. Tarantino-inspired films. Matrix-inspired films. Fight-Club-twist movies.

Remember the early to mid 90's when all of those serial killer movies were greenlit off the success of Silence of the Lambs? Money chases success.

The MCU has been a longer-term trend. If they want to stay through many more phases and story arcs, I think they need to let the auteurs be auteurs to keep the MCU going. People are not loving the homogenized creativity lately. Watching Loki basically be a Benson and Moorehead film based within the MCU was pretty awesome. Gotta keep thing fresh.

The question is always what's next.
Old 12-02-23, 02:55 PM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Originally Posted by Giantrobo
She is saying it. There are many genres. Don't like one, don't watch it. Why complain about a genre no one is forcing you to watch. I.e. I dont watch Bollywood films. Others do. I don't complian about them...
That's not what she is saying. She says it's a phase and that judged by her taste a phase that lasted too long. Yes, she wishes people get sick of it, to make room for more life changing movies, but neither does she say she doesn't like in general nor does she say, she thinks there are no other movies. She is in other kinds of movies, you know.
Old 12-02-23, 03:02 PM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Jimminy Christmas, she is an actress on the publicity tour for her new movie and she got asked a question about superhero movies (in other words the same question every Hollywood legend gets asked when they do an interview) and she gave an opinion. And this is the same interview that begins with her talking about not caring about other people's opinions. Probably good advice. Some of you make it seem like she woke up one morning and decided to roast the nerds on Twitter just for fun.
Old 12-02-23, 03:09 PM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

If a person's particular fandom can't sustain criticism or a hot take every so often, it may be time to ask oneself why.

Old 12-02-23, 05:06 PM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Not really. This is a discussion forum. Someone posted her opinion. We are discussing how ours might differ or coincide (or how we might opine something in between). The same thing happened when Roger Ebert declared that video games cannot be art. Were we meant not to engage in discussion?
Old 12-02-23, 06:05 PM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Originally Posted by RocShemp
Not really. This is a discussion forum. Someone posted her opinion. We are discussing how ours might differ or coincide (or how we might opine something in between). The same thing happened when Roger Ebert declared that video games cannot be art. Were we meant not to engage in discussion?
Not the intent at all! In fact I think a good internal discussion helps the external discussion.
Old 12-02-23, 06:27 PM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Originally Posted by RocShemp
Not really. This is a discussion forum. Someone posted her opinion. We are discussing how ours might differ or coincide (or how we might opine something in between). The same thing happened when Roger Ebert declared that video games cannot be art. Were we meant not to engage in discussion?
The problem is there’s a lot of straw man arguments going on here. Foster said “comic book movies” and she very obviously meant DC/MCU superhero flicks and all the arguments are “BuT wHaT aBoUT RoAd tO pErDITiOn? cHeCk maTe, JoDiE!”
Old 12-02-23, 08:27 PM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

I think I was the one who first made that counter. However, I didn't intend it as a "gotcha" moment. It's just just something that irks me when people say "comic book" when they mean "super hero," especially when there are indeed those -- not necessarily Foster -- that dismiss comic books as only being super hero fare. And even super heroes can be used to tell deeper stories. It happens less often (outside of comic books themselves) than I like, but I can't fault studios for chasing what sells more.

I don't deny that super hero media (cookie cutter or otherwise) are at an all time high. Like others have mentioned, they are the Westerns of their day. Will it last forever? Just look at the state of the Western. Such films are still made, but they are now the exception rather than the rule (although a glut of varying quality can still be found in the DTV market). So I agree that the boom will eventually die. I just hope we get more of the "good" ones, along with the "fun" ones, until the craze dwindles. Then whatever youngsters are into today, will be the movies of tomorrow, and we can discuss whether or not that new trend is killing Hollywood.
Old 12-02-23, 09:09 PM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

I assume Aquaman 2 will bomb and DC will probably stay away from making more DC movies outside of Batman and Superman and they have all the financial issues with their company so it might be easier to cut their losses.
Old 12-02-23, 10:56 PM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Originally Posted by JeffTheAlpaca
I assume Aquaman 2 will bomb and DC will probably stay away from making more DC movies outside of Batman and Superman
Just like the comic books, then.

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Old 12-03-23, 02:21 AM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Originally Posted by DonnachaOne
I'm looking twenty years to the future, when all the present films will be seen as campy relics of our cgi time, and some young auteur will want to "reimagine" them all...
It's twenty years now...Are we there yet?
Old 12-03-23, 08:42 AM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Originally Posted by ntnon
Because Pandemic, Price, Netflix and the changing world have moved away from it.. not because of Superheroics.
Never stopped me and many others on this forum from seeing movies in theaters.
Old 12-03-23, 10:00 AM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Originally Posted by ntnon
Because, like everyone, they think THEIR feelings are more important and accurate.

[THIS] type of film is too prevalent. [THIS] type of film cannot be 'life-changing'. [THIS] type of film is no good.

Wrong, on all counts.
Foster isn't saying two of those things. Yes, she seems to think that the genre is too prevalent, which is at least accurate regarding big blockbuster movies, she says it's not life-changing for her, which is just her taste and she definitely doesn't say they can't be good, since she marvels at the good ones.
Old 12-03-23, 10:39 AM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum
ROAD TO PERDITION and GHOST WORLD weren't based on comic books. They were based on graphic novels. Big difference.
Old 12-03-23, 11:08 AM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler
Yes, all trends come and go. The erotic thriller. Westerns. Neil-Simon-inspired dramas. Tarantino-inspired films. Matrix-inspired films. Fight-Club-twist movies.

Remember the early to mid 90's when all of those serial killer movies were greenlit off the success of Silence of the Lambs? Money chases success.

The MCU has been a longer-term trend. If they want to stay through many more phases and story arcs, I think they need to let the auteurs be auteurs to keep the MCU going. People are not loving the homogenized creativity lately. Watching Loki basically be a Benson and Moorehead film based within the MCU was pretty awesome. Gotta keep thing fresh.

The question is always what's next.
The guys with money have heard about the lack of profits when the studio selected auteur Ang Lee to do a superhero movie. They make more money using the McDonalds business model of turning out sufficiently good and very consistent product.
Old 12-03-23, 12:57 PM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Originally Posted by Nick Danger
The guys with money have heard about the lack of profits when the studio selected auteur Ang Lee to do a superhero movie. They make more money using the McDonalds business model of turning out sufficiently good and very consistent product.
Somewhat related, your comment reminds me of the study that showed many (not all, mind you) people prefer books/movies/shows be spoiled beforehand. Somehow the comfort of knowing the outcome beforehand allows them to better enjoy the entertainment they are consuming. And I think "comfort" is the same reason that people still enjoy the assembly-line approach to the MCU (or why formula works in general). Of course with how poorly these flicks are performing lately, maybe it's time to apply that method to a different property/genre. But not in the brute force manner attempted by TDU or the rudderless approach of the DCEU.
Old 12-03-23, 01:16 PM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Well, while I watch and somewhat still enjoy the MCU movies, it's feeling the way it felt around Season 6 of the Walking Dead. I was in love with that show for the first few seasons. And I didn't care at all what happened. I had already checked out.

The Office worked the same way. I was obsessed until Carell left. After that, I remember watching a few episodes of the following season and I was done.

The Ang Lee mention is good. Though I didn't feel like he was doing an Ice Storm or Crouching Tiger version of Hulk. I think Loki is a more relevant example of what can be done.
Old 12-03-23, 01:20 PM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Originally Posted by Nick Danger
The guys with money have heard about the lack of profits when the studio selected auteur Ang Lee to do a superhero movie. They make more money using the McDonalds business model of turning out sufficiently good and very consistent product.
Christopher Nolan and Sam Raimi collectively made about a zillion dollars with superhero trilogies that undeniably bore their respective authorial fingerprints, so I don't think it has to be one way or the other.
Old 12-04-23, 09:14 AM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Originally Posted by Crocker Jarmen
"Comic book" and "graphic novel" are just two different terms for the same thing; sequential art storytelling. It's like saying "Ghost World and Road To Perdition aren't movies, they're films."
I mean DC and Marvel took the already existing term and put out a bunch of longer form, more prestige format stories that were longer (and sturdier) than the typical comic book (Kirby's Hunger Dogs and Starlin's Death of Captain Marvel, for instance, but lots of Sci Fi and non superhero stuff). So I always think of graphic novel as something that wasn't put out in monthly form (as opposed to a collection or trade paperback collecting a bunch of monthly issues). But yeah, same difference, it's not like there isn't a ton of non superhero comics that come out in both formats (and that's before we even get into something like manga that goes into basically every kind of genre imaginable) and it's all sequential art.
Old 12-04-23, 10:52 AM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

I think we've likely already seen the peak of commercial Hollywood superhero movies as we know them. The genre may not be fully tapped on the longer form television side, where we still haven't gotten the equivalent of a Watchmen yet. The problem transcends superheroes, movie theaters are dying and it's likely going to warp cinema into something unrecognizable to everyone here.

Superheroes as a genre are going to parallel the decline of Westerns in Hollywood.
Old 12-04-23, 05:05 PM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

Originally Posted by Runaway
Foster isn't saying two of those things. Yes, she seems to think that the genre is too prevalent, which is at least accurate regarding big blockbuster movies, she says it's not life-changing for her, which is just her taste and she definitely doesn't say they can't be good, since she marvels at the good ones.
The problem isn't superhero movies, it's just Hollywood (and the world) has moved beyond making the kinds movies Jodie Foster wants them to make. And it comes down to a lot of factors.

One, the cost of going to the movies has skyrocketed. We're looking at about thirty dollars a head, so if people are going to go to movies, they want some kind of big spectacle like superheroes, sci-fi/fantasy, or Fast and Furious movies.

Two, the kinds of movies Foster wants to see made are better served as tv series through venues like Netflix, Apple TV+, HBO, or FX.

Three, we can watch movies at home now on cheap 4K tvs on either DVD, blu-ray, or HD streaming. We aren't watching movies on an old 19" Zenith on VHS anymore. Our options for watching non-broadcast tv content at home have increased drastically since the 1970s and 1980s. Before the cable tv and VCR revolution, your only option for watching something that wasn't CHiPs or Starsky & Hutch was going to local movies theater and hoping they were playing something good that week.

Four, the crackdown on letting children and teenagers into R-rated movies also had a huge impact on Hollywood, where they were forced to water down a lot of their content to get a PG or PG-13 rating, making it essentially tv fare, in order to appeal to the broadest possible audience. This especially hurt the comedy and horror genres that traditionally appealed to the under-eighteen crowd.

So if people are going to watch a drama like Nell or Little Man Tate, they're going to do so in the comfort of their own homes instead of heading out to a movie theater. No w, those projects would be made as Netflix series.

I'm not sure if comparing superheroes to westerns is apt. Westerns were popular back in the mid-20th century because the cowboy image was part of the zeitgeist. The generations (mostly Generation X and beyond) that grew up in the space age seem to have left those pastoral fantasies behind for things like Star Wars, Harry Potter, and video games.

And the popularity of Westerns was probably helped because the movies were incredibly cheap and easy to make. Get some horses, guns, and cowboy hats. Shoot out in the desert on a pre-built backlot. And you have a quick and dirty movie. Making western movies was probably more like making episodes of a tv series with standing sets, andreadily available costumes and props.

I think another reason for the dominance of superhero movies in the 21st century comes down the simple fact that we only now have the movie-making technology to do them justice. Prior to the CGI revolution, filmmakers were really hamstrung by the available technology like green screens, the limits of make-up, and models. A comic book was just pen and ink on paper, limited only by what the writer could think up and what the artist could draw. Now, with CGI, those same rules now apply to film-making, and filmmakers are only bound by their imaginations (and budgets, but that's always been the case).

Superheroes have always been lurking around in the back of pop culture, but the stories were difficult to follow, represented a recurring cost, and reading comic books had a social stigma to it. But now, the past two or so decades, Hollywood has been able to deliver the content to an audience that's hungry for it.
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Old 12-04-23, 05:59 PM
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re: I'm Afraid Hollywood is Gonna Kill the Comic Book / Superhero Movie!

You make many good points. #3 is the main one. I've gone to the movies almost a hundred times this year, and very rarely has there been more than a dozen other people in there. A few times there have been good crowds of thirty or more people, but more often it's been five or six. On one occasion, it was just me by myself. No one I know feels its worth the effort to go to the movies because of all their streaming options. Even for movies they want to see, there's no urgency, because it'll be out of the theatre and available for them to watch at home within a couple of months.

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