Irreversible - directed by Gaspar Noé [spoilers]
03-16-03, 02:04 AM
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Irreversible - directed by Gaspar Noé [spoilers]
Anyone seen this yet?
Granted, I haven't seen some of the films that some have on these boards but this has got to be the most brutally shocking and realistically graphic film I have ever seen, bar none.
Reverse chronology such as Memento yet it starts off with a murder that consists of such a horrific murder where the boyfriend of a woman who is raped bashes the rapists head in with a fire extinguisher...he literally does it over ten times with out edits although there is rapid camera movement mimicking a visual attack itself and alluding a nauseating distortion during the murder to muddle our already shocked senses. Tears welled up for me during this scene out of sheer shock and due to the graphic content. The attack goes well after the man is dead and then he is left with a shell of a face. The first couple of blows knock out his teeth and the man keeps asking for it, they scour a S and M club looking for him, then blow after blow crushes his skull further at the same time shaking the camera which is locating ground level close to his face. A gritty second or two hold of the camera that inundates monochromatic gore of his skull. A gapping dint in the center of where his head use to be with his skin writhing off to the side of his gruesomely dilapidated and cadaverous resembling face. It turns my stomach to think of it.
This scene held my shocking dismay but to my astonishment it was not the most disturbing image of the film...after a couple of sequence later we are taken into a Parisian underpass from where Monica Bellucia, the rape victim, is trapped with this deplorable waste of a person, a demonizing pimp. The rape then ensues. The camera, once again at ground level, sits and watches like an insect that was crawling and just decided to look at the behavior of humans...or of an animal depending on what way you look at it. But this time, instead of a jittering and disjointed camera eye we are presented with an fixed eye, ever watchful of viscous rape. This scene is unrelenting and long (ever long, I have heard the rape lasts approximately 9 minutes but it feels like 90). In this 9 minute span is when most of the walkouts, which have become notorious with this film, occur. First the pimp beats one of his prostitutes, striking her on her temple several times just as our future victim is walking by them. Her appallment freezes her like the clichéd "deer in headlights". She gasps at the nefarious pimp and the next thing she knows, she is amongst his wrath all the while the prostitute has fled. He proceeds to rape her in this bowel of the city while chanting demoralizing slurs at her. She at different points goes into a painfully rhythmic series of moans while he defiles her all the while still struggling and trying to fight him, never completely submitting to her capture. After the rapist finishes he does not attempt to flee. He merely rolls off of her and sits for a minute and catches his breath with a ****ing smugness that permeates of his face and his neck and general manner that sickens me even as I write this now. Gasping, the woman tries to collect her in the best way she can, if you can even call it that and tries to gather herself erect upwards. The rapist then sits on top of her once again and pounds her face. The camera finally moves here after such along wait but it is not to give us respite but to a closer view as he turns her over and smashes her head into the pavement numerous times. A horror of a scene that does not end.
The rest of the movie track in reverse to a party and commute to the party and then of the house of the two lovers. The reverse progression is filled with tender moments that is but normal to the characters but bittersweet for the audience because we have the "misfortune" of know the future.
After much thought and after perusing Ebert’s review, I agree with him that there is not exploitation in this film. The reverse chronology supports this and also for example it is presented in a realistic and almost seamless continuous take: (the transitions happen as the camera is involved in one of its numerous 360 degree revolution that blends the end of a segment with the beginning of the next as the camera is focused on the floor or ceiling.) I am sure there are many who will disagree there but that is expected with a film of this nature.
In closing I cannot say that I necessarily enjoyed the movie but I did like it. There is a outstanding closing shot that rotates on Belluci in the park with a birds eye view and a beautiful score the tunes in and then to just a pale white scrambling screen with an allusion to time lost.
See this film if you are not too squeamish but be warned that if you have just seen the trailer, it completely sidetracks around the whole controversy of the film in its violent content.
I read another review stating which was worse: the extremity of the violence or tolerance of the viewer who stays and watches such horrid events. I am not sure but I did on numerous occasions close my eyes and look away not due to nausea yet guilt and the deepest empathy for a character; and also at other times stare deeply at the screen. I now wonder if vengeance and revenge is validated and if any line can ever be drawn for crimes against fellow human beings.
Granted, I haven't seen some of the films that some have on these boards but this has got to be the most brutally shocking and realistically graphic film I have ever seen, bar none.
Reverse chronology such as Memento yet it starts off with a murder that consists of such a horrific murder where the boyfriend of a woman who is raped bashes the rapists head in with a fire extinguisher...he literally does it over ten times with out edits although there is rapid camera movement mimicking a visual attack itself and alluding a nauseating distortion during the murder to muddle our already shocked senses. Tears welled up for me during this scene out of sheer shock and due to the graphic content. The attack goes well after the man is dead and then he is left with a shell of a face. The first couple of blows knock out his teeth and the man keeps asking for it, they scour a S and M club looking for him, then blow after blow crushes his skull further at the same time shaking the camera which is locating ground level close to his face. A gritty second or two hold of the camera that inundates monochromatic gore of his skull. A gapping dint in the center of where his head use to be with his skin writhing off to the side of his gruesomely dilapidated and cadaverous resembling face. It turns my stomach to think of it.
This scene held my shocking dismay but to my astonishment it was not the most disturbing image of the film...after a couple of sequence later we are taken into a Parisian underpass from where Monica Bellucia, the rape victim, is trapped with this deplorable waste of a person, a demonizing pimp. The rape then ensues. The camera, once again at ground level, sits and watches like an insect that was crawling and just decided to look at the behavior of humans...or of an animal depending on what way you look at it. But this time, instead of a jittering and disjointed camera eye we are presented with an fixed eye, ever watchful of viscous rape. This scene is unrelenting and long (ever long, I have heard the rape lasts approximately 9 minutes but it feels like 90). In this 9 minute span is when most of the walkouts, which have become notorious with this film, occur. First the pimp beats one of his prostitutes, striking her on her temple several times just as our future victim is walking by them. Her appallment freezes her like the clichéd "deer in headlights". She gasps at the nefarious pimp and the next thing she knows, she is amongst his wrath all the while the prostitute has fled. He proceeds to rape her in this bowel of the city while chanting demoralizing slurs at her. She at different points goes into a painfully rhythmic series of moans while he defiles her all the while still struggling and trying to fight him, never completely submitting to her capture. After the rapist finishes he does not attempt to flee. He merely rolls off of her and sits for a minute and catches his breath with a ****ing smugness that permeates of his face and his neck and general manner that sickens me even as I write this now. Gasping, the woman tries to collect her in the best way she can, if you can even call it that and tries to gather herself erect upwards. The rapist then sits on top of her once again and pounds her face. The camera finally moves here after such along wait but it is not to give us respite but to a closer view as he turns her over and smashes her head into the pavement numerous times. A horror of a scene that does not end.
The rest of the movie track in reverse to a party and commute to the party and then of the house of the two lovers. The reverse progression is filled with tender moments that is but normal to the characters but bittersweet for the audience because we have the "misfortune" of know the future.
After much thought and after perusing Ebert’s review, I agree with him that there is not exploitation in this film. The reverse chronology supports this and also for example it is presented in a realistic and almost seamless continuous take: (the transitions happen as the camera is involved in one of its numerous 360 degree revolution that blends the end of a segment with the beginning of the next as the camera is focused on the floor or ceiling.) I am sure there are many who will disagree there but that is expected with a film of this nature.
In closing I cannot say that I necessarily enjoyed the movie but I did like it. There is a outstanding closing shot that rotates on Belluci in the park with a birds eye view and a beautiful score the tunes in and then to just a pale white scrambling screen with an allusion to time lost.
See this film if you are not too squeamish but be warned that if you have just seen the trailer, it completely sidetracks around the whole controversy of the film in its violent content.
I read another review stating which was worse: the extremity of the violence or tolerance of the viewer who stays and watches such horrid events. I am not sure but I did on numerous occasions close my eyes and look away not due to nausea yet guilt and the deepest empathy for a character; and also at other times stare deeply at the screen. I now wonder if vengeance and revenge is validated and if any line can ever be drawn for crimes against fellow human beings.
03-16-03, 04:23 AM
#2
DVD Talk Special Edition
Y'know, I yelled out "You SONOFABITCH!" when
.
I was so incensed by that one moment.
It is a brutal, brutal scene, but, then, rape is brutal.
Powerful, and very uncomfortable to watch.
One of the most disturbing movies I have ever seen.
Spoiler:
I was so incensed by that one moment.
It is a brutal, brutal scene, but, then, rape is brutal.
Powerful, and very uncomfortable to watch.
One of the most disturbing movies I have ever seen.
03-16-03, 04:29 PM
#3
DVD Talk Legend
When does this go nationwide or at least in large cities?
Also, in terms of the brutal beating, would any of you guys have reacted differently had such and act been performed on your GF?
Also, in terms of the brutal beating, would any of you guys have reacted differently had such and act been performed on your GF?
Last edited by Dr. DVD; 03-16-03 at 04:33 PM.
03-16-03, 04:32 PM
#4
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by Dr. DVD
When does this go nationwide or at least in large cities?
When does this go nationwide or at least in large cities?
)
03-16-03, 04:34 PM
#5
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Originally posted by Rypro 525
Since this is an indie movie, I doubt it will. (plus, do you think a movie with a brutal rape scene would get played in 2000 plus screens )
Since this is an indie movie, I doubt it will. (plus, do you think a movie with a brutal rape scene would get played in 2000 plus screens
)
03-16-03, 05:06 PM
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Beckham that was a fantastic write up of the film, I only wish I could write like that, I think I can say I liked the film, but it's certainly not a movie you go see when you want to feel good coming out of it.
03-17-03, 02:44 AM
#7
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
First off, let me say its refreshing to see a thread started with some substance and not just with a first post saying just 'lets talk about movie-x'. Of course, when it comes to a film like Irreversible there's certainly a lot to talk about.
I generally avoid reading reviews until after seeing a film but of course I couldn't help but hear about the graphic nature of this film. There was a sign at the theatre saying basically 'no refunds - you've been warned.'
I still wasn't emotionally prepared to see what I did, and it wasn't the beating or the rape scene. Maybe it was the message of the film, overtly stated as 'Time destroys all things' or the hints of pre-destination, which I just can't accept. It attacks the very concept of free will - if this is an illusion, what's the point of doing anything?
The way the film is structured, everything that happens chronologically before the rape takes on an ironic sadness. Especially that conversation on the subway - Alex explains that her sex life is good because they're selfish. And later, she is the victim of a brutal selfish crime.
Another issue brought up is, was the murder justified? That really is hard to say when one isn't involved. But there is no western country that assigns the death penalty to the crime of rape. The events may be further clouded because, looking at IMDB, it seems like they killed the wrong guy. I would have to see the film again (after the therapy I'll need after this viewing) to confirm for myself - I recognized Tenia as being at the club, but he was standing next to a bigger guy who gets involved in the fight.
I also found the Kubrick references interesting - especially 2001: ASO. I don't think it was just the fact that its a baby on the poster. 2001 (which happens to be my favorite film) tries to predict that man is destined for something more - an evolutionary step that will make him more a part of the cosmos. This of course is in direct contrast to the almost nihilistic message that opens and closes Irreversible. Yet, there is another Kubrick poster in the apartment - The Killing, which like other Kubrick films, not only points out the ineptitudes of man but also the pointless nature of life itself. Man seems to be unable to act against his nature, even when he seems to have started to understand himself.
Like others, I wouldn't say I 'enjoyed' the film, but it certainly weighs on my mind. I saw the film, and came home to watch the latest episode of Six Feet Under. (Like I needed more morbidity right now, but it also does have a sense of humor.) This particular episode had an art teacher that basically said 'trust your bowels' - if something makes you uncomfortable, thats good. Not only does it mean its not commercial, but it gives you room to explore why you feel this way. I've been living a middle-class sheltered life (like Alex and Marcus) but the darkness is right around the corner. Is there any point to talking about it (sex/fate) and maybe being inadequate in communication, or should we just let nature take its course and keep quiet?
Ok, I've probably rambled a little too long here, but this film is very disturbing. I probably wouldn't recommend it to friends especially, but I do give it a 9/10.
I generally avoid reading reviews until after seeing a film but of course I couldn't help but hear about the graphic nature of this film. There was a sign at the theatre saying basically 'no refunds - you've been warned.'
I still wasn't emotionally prepared to see what I did, and it wasn't the beating or the rape scene. Maybe it was the message of the film, overtly stated as 'Time destroys all things' or the hints of pre-destination, which I just can't accept. It attacks the very concept of free will - if this is an illusion, what's the point of doing anything?
The way the film is structured, everything that happens chronologically before the rape takes on an ironic sadness. Especially that conversation on the subway - Alex explains that her sex life is good because they're selfish. And later, she is the victim of a brutal selfish crime.
Another issue brought up is, was the murder justified? That really is hard to say when one isn't involved. But there is no western country that assigns the death penalty to the crime of rape. The events may be further clouded because, looking at IMDB, it seems like they killed the wrong guy. I would have to see the film again (after the therapy I'll need after this viewing) to confirm for myself - I recognized Tenia as being at the club, but he was standing next to a bigger guy who gets involved in the fight.
I also found the Kubrick references interesting - especially 2001: ASO. I don't think it was just the fact that its a baby on the poster. 2001 (which happens to be my favorite film) tries to predict that man is destined for something more - an evolutionary step that will make him more a part of the cosmos. This of course is in direct contrast to the almost nihilistic message that opens and closes Irreversible. Yet, there is another Kubrick poster in the apartment - The Killing, which like other Kubrick films, not only points out the ineptitudes of man but also the pointless nature of life itself. Man seems to be unable to act against his nature, even when he seems to have started to understand himself.
Like others, I wouldn't say I 'enjoyed' the film, but it certainly weighs on my mind. I saw the film, and came home to watch the latest episode of Six Feet Under. (Like I needed more morbidity right now, but it also does have a sense of humor.) This particular episode had an art teacher that basically said 'trust your bowels' - if something makes you uncomfortable, thats good. Not only does it mean its not commercial, but it gives you room to explore why you feel this way. I've been living a middle-class sheltered life (like Alex and Marcus) but the darkness is right around the corner. Is there any point to talking about it (sex/fate) and maybe being inadequate in communication, or should we just let nature take its course and keep quiet?
Ok, I've probably rambled a little too long here, but this film is very disturbing. I probably wouldn't recommend it to friends especially, but I do give it a 9/10.
03-17-03, 08:17 AM
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I found Irreversible very conceited. Note, this isn't a bad quality. The direction is thrilling and the ride is certainly worth experiencing at least once (I will probably see it once more). But I found the denouement of the final title card "Time destroys all things" rather silly.
Nevertheless, the bravura opening sequence, from the "opening" credits to the murder deftly creates, on screen, a fierce definition of blinding rage as Marcus and Pierre decend into the metaphysical hell of "The Rectum." It's just a great portrayal of a state of mind.
Noe's psychotic camera is then calmed to stillness as the pieces fall into place. Belluci has one of the more memorable introductions into a film with a face beaten to a pulp. So Noe has prepared the audience for the worst. His camera sits still for the centerpiece of the film. I find it interesting, reading about Irreversible, that Gasper Noe initially wanted to create a porn movie with married actors Cassel and Belluci. But they were reluctant and when Noe approached them with the idea for this film, the couple happily jumped on board.
But back to the film, after the rape. Noe obviously wants the audience to view the second half with the first half burned into their memory. I enjoyed these scenes immensely, because the actors (mostly improvising) really help sell it without seeming too ironic.
About The Killing and 2001 references: I took them as statements about the way both those films manipulate time and memory and human perception and action in dire situations (for example: Johnny Clay buying a busted suitcase when his exacted plan falls apart and Bowman using his instinct to break back into the Discovery after HAL locks him out).
And a small note about Albert Dupontel (Pierre). I saw Irreversible at a European film festival a week before its wide release. Before seeing the Noe work, I watched another French film (petites miseres) starring Dupontel playing a button-down, low-key, insecure French repo-man. It's a sweet and goofy movie so I was quite surprised to see his name in the credits of Irreversible. I just have to give him props since he is a great foil for Vincent Cassel (another of my favorite French actors).
Nevertheless, the bravura opening sequence, from the "opening" credits to the murder deftly creates, on screen, a fierce definition of blinding rage as Marcus and Pierre decend into the metaphysical hell of "The Rectum." It's just a great portrayal of a state of mind.
Noe's psychotic camera is then calmed to stillness as the pieces fall into place. Belluci has one of the more memorable introductions into a film with a face beaten to a pulp. So Noe has prepared the audience for the worst. His camera sits still for the centerpiece of the film. I find it interesting, reading about Irreversible, that Gasper Noe initially wanted to create a porn movie with married actors Cassel and Belluci. But they were reluctant and when Noe approached them with the idea for this film, the couple happily jumped on board.
But back to the film, after the rape. Noe obviously wants the audience to view the second half with the first half burned into their memory. I enjoyed these scenes immensely, because the actors (mostly improvising) really help sell it without seeming too ironic.
About The Killing and 2001 references: I took them as statements about the way both those films manipulate time and memory and human perception and action in dire situations (for example: Johnny Clay buying a busted suitcase when his exacted plan falls apart and Bowman using his instinct to break back into the Discovery after HAL locks him out).
And a small note about Albert Dupontel (Pierre). I saw Irreversible at a European film festival a week before its wide release. Before seeing the Noe work, I watched another French film (petites miseres) starring Dupontel playing a button-down, low-key, insecure French repo-man. It's a sweet and goofy movie so I was quite surprised to see his name in the credits of Irreversible. I just have to give him props since he is a great foil for Vincent Cassel (another of my favorite French actors).
03-17-03, 08:28 AM
#9
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
And a funny note about the screening I attended. Ten or fifteen seconds after the opening credits began rolling the film stopped abrubtly and the projector turned off. After some murmuring one of the theater workers came in and yelled up to the projector booth "Did he think that was the wrong reel?" And out of the both came a sheepish "Yes." The whole theater broke out laughing.
03-17-03, 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by MrN
First off, let me say its refreshing to see a thread started with some substance and not just with a first post saying just 'lets talk about movie-x'.
First off, let me say its refreshing to see a thread started with some substance and not just with a first post saying just 'lets talk about movie-x'.
Regardless of whether one agrees with beckham's opinions or not, this was a well-wriiten review (and an equally good discussion that followed).
I, for one, have yet to see the film, but hope to in the upcoming weeks.
03-17-03, 11:25 AM
#11
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Actually, I think this thread should have a spoiler warning in the title, even though those who have heard of the film will have heard about the two main scenes. I'll send a request to a moderator.
03-18-03, 03:49 AM
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First of all let me extend my apologies for not prefacing this thread with a spoiler warning. I was alittle drunk when I wrote it and the movie was scurrying around in my mind that I just wrote with out thinking. Since I just don't start too many threads anyway, it just slipped my mind; sorry and I hope I didn't ruin it for anyone.
Secondly, thanks for responding well to my review. I don't usually do it but this movie struck a cord and I just had to put words to it because it illicited such a reaction from me which might wholeheartedly be one of the prime objectives of the director. I work at a movie theatre that plays the film and just tonight on the last showing there were a couple of people who walked out. They were both females and were visably upset. One just left and the other had to be consoled by her BF. Me and another co-worker were talking specifically about the reaction to the female gender that sees this movie. Rape, the word itself connotates the image of a woman and is the ultimate violation (the first act that women do, reportedly, is wash their vagina after being raped which is actually the last thing they should do). It is perhaps worse than death in that it has the potential to kill the life to be lead afterwards and God only knows what strength it must take to go on day after day hince from such an atrocity. I mean how can you live life if it is dead to you; it is like a word without meaning; living in a constant greyness. But I feel almost guilty with my assumptions here knowing that many rape victims go on to devour and conquer life. I hopefully will never have to endure what those tragically selected have.
I too don't buy into 'Time destroys all things'. It was one of the proclamations in the production booklet full of the films suppossed mantra. (Taken from Johnathen Rosenbaums' Essay at http://www.chireader.com/movies/arch...03/030314.html - Very interesting and worth checking out.)
"Because time destroys everything
"Because some acts are irreparable
"Because man is an animal
"Because the desire for vengeance is a natural impulse
"Because most crimes remain unpunished
"Because the loss of a loved one destroys like lightning
"Because love is the source of life
"Because all history is written in sperm and blood
"Because in a good world
"Because premonitions do not alter the course of events
"Because time reveals everything
"The best and the worst."
The whole promonitions in the lovers bedroom is fraught with irony but then again what does it matter; what happens, happens. That may seem ultra nihilistic but some ignorance isn't bliss...its essential. Its either that or insanity.
This is an interesting point that I have been pondering over. I thought it was the right man the first time I saw it but there are a couple reviews that leans toward your inclination. I will definetly look for it upon my second viewing. It brings up the discussion of the justification for vengence. Maybe Noe is trying to say that the emotional setting of rage in a hybrid of venegance is so drunk in wraith; and in wraith there is a abundance of distortion and garbled tendencies. It takes us to one of his other points: "Because man is an animal" The animal instict only knows one thing...destroy. Man has thought, an overwhelming distintion that seperates us between species, but when our emotions and centeredness are suddenly plummeled we revert evolution unto primate instincts. I don't know, maybe thats taking it a bit far but then again its good to think about things.
Also I don't know if I went to at length about the necessity of the reverse chronolgy in bombastically numbing the audience right out of the gates instead of taking the unglamourized yet too excessively shock rate of violence to the point of climax in the film. The payoff of the movie is somber happiness they feel before the party while veiled in darkness from the pale terror that we, horrifically, can already see: events that destroy the lives of four people (although one I could care less about right now). That is if there is a payoff at all. After thinking about it further I think the shock goes alittle bit too far yet isn't explotive. After the gruesome murder, I was expecting a sustained head shot close up teeming with the gory aftermath. There was none. It wasn't its purpose and thank god it wasn't handled by a director who would have gone after that (all though maybe that same director wouldn't have been as shocking in Noe's white hot temerity for showing us what he did).
Well I hope this supplement wasn't too redundant or unneccessary and I am just glad I was given such a reaction to a piece of film.
Secondly, thanks for responding well to my review. I don't usually do it but this movie struck a cord and I just had to put words to it because it illicited such a reaction from me which might wholeheartedly be one of the prime objectives of the director. I work at a movie theatre that plays the film and just tonight on the last showing there were a couple of people who walked out. They were both females and were visably upset. One just left and the other had to be consoled by her BF. Me and another co-worker were talking specifically about the reaction to the female gender that sees this movie. Rape, the word itself connotates the image of a woman and is the ultimate violation (the first act that women do, reportedly, is wash their vagina after being raped which is actually the last thing they should do). It is perhaps worse than death in that it has the potential to kill the life to be lead afterwards and God only knows what strength it must take to go on day after day hince from such an atrocity. I mean how can you live life if it is dead to you; it is like a word without meaning; living in a constant greyness. But I feel almost guilty with my assumptions here knowing that many rape victims go on to devour and conquer life. I hopefully will never have to endure what those tragically selected have.
Originally posted by MrN
I still wasn't emotionally prepared to see what I did, and it wasn't the beating or the rape scene. Maybe it was the message of the film, overtly stated as 'Time destroys all things' or the hints of pre-destination, which I just can't accept. It attacks the very concept of free will - if this is an illusion, what's the point of doing anything?
I still wasn't emotionally prepared to see what I did, and it wasn't the beating or the rape scene. Maybe it was the message of the film, overtly stated as 'Time destroys all things' or the hints of pre-destination, which I just can't accept. It attacks the very concept of free will - if this is an illusion, what's the point of doing anything?
"Because time destroys everything
"Because some acts are irreparable
"Because man is an animal
"Because the desire for vengeance is a natural impulse
"Because most crimes remain unpunished
"Because the loss of a loved one destroys like lightning
"Because love is the source of life
"Because all history is written in sperm and blood
"Because in a good world
"Because premonitions do not alter the course of events
"Because time reveals everything
"The best and the worst."
The whole promonitions in the lovers bedroom is fraught with irony but then again what does it matter; what happens, happens. That may seem ultra nihilistic but some ignorance isn't bliss...its essential. Its either that or insanity.
Originally posted by MrN
Another issue brought up is, was the murder justified? That really is hard to say when one isn't involved. But there is no western country that assigns the death penalty to the crime of rape. The events may be further clouded because, looking at IMDB, it seems like they killed the wrong guy. I would have to see the film again (after the therapy I'll need after this viewing) to confirm for myself - I recognized Tenia as being at the club, but he was standing next to a bigger guy who gets involved in the fight.
Another issue brought up is, was the murder justified? That really is hard to say when one isn't involved. But there is no western country that assigns the death penalty to the crime of rape. The events may be further clouded because, looking at IMDB, it seems like they killed the wrong guy. I would have to see the film again (after the therapy I'll need after this viewing) to confirm for myself - I recognized Tenia as being at the club, but he was standing next to a bigger guy who gets involved in the fight.
Also I don't know if I went to at length about the necessity of the reverse chronolgy in bombastically numbing the audience right out of the gates instead of taking the unglamourized yet too excessively shock rate of violence to the point of climax in the film. The payoff of the movie is somber happiness they feel before the party while veiled in darkness from the pale terror that we, horrifically, can already see: events that destroy the lives of four people (although one I could care less about right now). That is if there is a payoff at all. After thinking about it further I think the shock goes alittle bit too far yet isn't explotive. After the gruesome murder, I was expecting a sustained head shot close up teeming with the gory aftermath. There was none. It wasn't its purpose and thank god it wasn't handled by a director who would have gone after that (all though maybe that same director wouldn't have been as shocking in Noe's white hot temerity for showing us what he did).
Well I hope this supplement wasn't too redundant or unneccessary and I am just glad I was given such a reaction to a piece of film.
05-25-03, 10:33 PM
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Guys, I've got a fairly mature mind and a fairly strong stomache for a 16 year old. Would you guys give the ok to see the film? I've heard alot about the violence in the movie, and I usually don't have a problem with such, but this sounds like it is extremely brutal. I'm interested in the film. . .so what do you guys think?
05-26-03, 12:02 PM
#15
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by theneobez
Guys, I've got a fairly mature mind and a fairly strong stomache for a 16 year old. Would you guys give the ok to see the film? I've heard alot about the violence in the movie, and I usually don't have a problem with such, but this sounds like it is extremely brutal. I'm interested in the film. . .so what do you guys think?
Guys, I've got a fairly mature mind and a fairly strong stomache for a 16 year old. Would you guys give the ok to see the film? I've heard alot about the violence in the movie, and I usually don't have a problem with such, but this sounds like it is extremely brutal. I'm interested in the film. . .so what do you guys think?
06-12-03, 11:52 PM
#17
DVD Talk Hero
The opening sequence can make you really really queasy from making you feel like you are suffering motion sickness. I don't know if I could stomach viewing this film again.
This is one of those films where a little of part of you dies in the process of seeing the film because of the contrast of selfish brutality and self-righteous brutality on display.
This is one of those films where a little of part of you dies in the process of seeing the film because of the contrast of selfish brutality and self-righteous brutality on display.
06-13-03, 12:23 AM
#18
DVD Talk Legend
I am watching Gaspar Noe's previous effort, I Stand Alone, as I type this post. The man definitely must love shock factor to make his points and not sugar coat anything.
His concept of a happy ending is downright sick though!
His concept of a happy ending is downright sick though!
06-13-03, 10:32 PM
#19
DVD Talk Legend
Saw it.
Let me say first that I did watch Gaspar Noe's I Stand Alone right before I saw this one, and I was very surprised to find that this was an indirect sequel to that movie.
SLIGHT SPOILER
The main character of I Stand Alone is in the very first scene of this movie talking about the events that transpired at the end of said film.
That said, I really think this is a movie worthy of the Criterion treatment. While I don't necessarily buy into the pre-destination philosophy, I don't really think that was the basis of the film's theme of "time destroys all things". I think it was stating that the choices human beings make in time effects the outcome, not time itself working alone. Basically, it says life is a gamble, and you hold the ultimate say in what happens. However, you might not always be aware of this fact. I found the film disturbing like everyone else, and the second half was very hard to watch as you know the happy couple is pretty much doomed, despite their undeniable love.
I still think that Monica Belluci is the most attractive woman in cinema (along with Catherine Zeta Jones), and after viewing this, you wish you could be with her. Not just for obvious reasons, but to protect her.
Let me say first that I did watch Gaspar Noe's I Stand Alone right before I saw this one, and I was very surprised to find that this was an indirect sequel to that movie.
SLIGHT SPOILER
The main character of I Stand Alone is in the very first scene of this movie talking about the events that transpired at the end of said film.
That said, I really think this is a movie worthy of the Criterion treatment. While I don't necessarily buy into the pre-destination philosophy, I don't really think that was the basis of the film's theme of "time destroys all things". I think it was stating that the choices human beings make in time effects the outcome, not time itself working alone. Basically, it says life is a gamble, and you hold the ultimate say in what happens. However, you might not always be aware of this fact. I found the film disturbing like everyone else, and the second half was very hard to watch as you know the happy couple is pretty much doomed, despite their undeniable love.
I still think that Monica Belluci is the most attractive woman in cinema (along with Catherine Zeta Jones), and after viewing this, you wish you could be with her. Not just for obvious reasons, but to protect her.
08-07-03, 04:28 PM
#21
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Irreversible - Man Oh Man
I wanted to see this movie badly to see what all the buzz was about, but places like Blockbuster didn't carry it for obvious reasons, so I was more or less forced to go the blind buy route.
The film is SHOCKING. I had read so much about the first violent scene, but nothing that I could read prepared me for what I saw. I couldn't help myself from my jaw dropping in disbelief as the man was beaten mercilessly. And the rape scene is so disturbing, and so long...I had recently watched Straw Dogs, and this one is just farther beyond anything I've ever seen.
But in the end, despite all the moments that would make 95% of people unable to be anything but disgusted, I was surprised to find out how emotionally devastating it was. The final moments of the film, where everyone is so happy, with so much hope, puts this movie above sensationalist or even pornographic material.
I don't know when the next time I'll watch it again, and I know for a fact that I will never watch it with other people, but I can say that the film is going to stick with me for a long time.
The film is SHOCKING. I had read so much about the first violent scene, but nothing that I could read prepared me for what I saw. I couldn't help myself from my jaw dropping in disbelief as the man was beaten mercilessly. And the rape scene is so disturbing, and so long...I had recently watched Straw Dogs, and this one is just farther beyond anything I've ever seen.
But in the end, despite all the moments that would make 95% of people unable to be anything but disgusted, I was surprised to find out how emotionally devastating it was. The final moments of the film, where everyone is so happy, with so much hope, puts this movie above sensationalist or even pornographic material.
I don't know when the next time I'll watch it again, and I know for a fact that I will never watch it with other people, but I can say that the film is going to stick with me for a long time.
08-07-03, 04:51 PM
#22
DVD Talk Legend
That's pretty much what I thought after seeing it. I caught it this summer, and of all the movies I have seen this year or season, it is, without a doubt, the one that sticks in my mind more than any of the others.
If you want a real mindf**k...
Also, if you have not seen Noe's other movie, I Stand Alone, I highly recommend it. Not as disturbing as this one, but no easy trip either. The best reason to see it
If you want a real mindf**k...
Spoiler:
Also, if you have not seen Noe's other movie, I Stand Alone, I highly recommend it. Not as disturbing as this one, but no easy trip either. The best reason to see it
Spoiler:
08-07-03, 05:23 PM
#23
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I'm sorry, perhaps I am in the minority here. But, as far as I am concerned, this film is awful.
I like non-mainstream movies. I like foreign cinema. But this was violence for violence sake. I know he's trying to make a point about how horiffic rape is, and by showing the whole scene, we get to experience what she was experiencing, but, aside from this point which he makes in quite a laboured manner, the film as a piece was quite boring. And don't get me started on the camerawork or the music.
Like I said, I am sure I am in the minority, but this film did nothing for me.
I like non-mainstream movies. I like foreign cinema. But this was violence for violence sake. I know he's trying to make a point about how horiffic rape is, and by showing the whole scene, we get to experience what she was experiencing, but, aside from this point which he makes in quite a laboured manner, the film as a piece was quite boring. And don't get me started on the camerawork or the music.
Like I said, I am sure I am in the minority, but this film did nothing for me.
