chipmac

I know this area is for talk about TTT but while watching Fellowship again recently I happened to notice something that puzzled me.

In the scene where the Nazgul are chasing Arwen on horseback there is a shot of them from overhead where they're riding in a "V" formation. If you count them there are only 8 riders chasing her and there were a total of 9 if memory serves. What happened to the ninth?

This chase takes place after Aragorn battles them at the top of Amon Hen so did one of them not join back up with the others? I even tried counting them before they get washed away in the river but they're grouped together too closely to make out a definite number. So if anyone can explain this or even say it was a goof on PJ's part I'd be thankful.

Dr. DVD

Basically, the five that attacked Frodo & co. were part of the nine. Remember, Arwen said she did not know where the other four were when she got Frodo. It was meant to build tension when suddenly they ALL appeared to give chase.

In terms of only counting eight, I would chalk it up to a film flub or their leader, the witch king, being back in Mordor on business.

majorjoe23

What about the one that was set on fire? Maybe he had to go back and get a new robe or something.

Groucho

In the book, they aren't all there either...some of the Nazgul are in another location. I forget the exact numbers.

Nazgul

Somebody has to post here.....

Giantrobo

I thought they had a Leader who was off someplace doing something else?

Josh H

Yeah, I'd say the leader just wasn't their. He was probably still in Minas Morgul. I know in the book the leader leaves Minas Morgul toward the end of TTT when Sam and Frodo are watching.

I'm guessing Jackson didn't want to reveal the leader until ROTK and left him out of FOTR for that reason.

chipmac

Ok so there isn't a defintitive explaination that was read about or explained in one of the commentaries that I missed. But now that I've thought about it further; could this missing ninth Nazgul be the one that is the only one left after Arwen's spell on the river washes them away? Is he the one riding the Fell Beast in TTT? I've only seen TTT once and can't remember how many flying Nazgul there were in that film. Remember we're only discussing the film so differences from the book don't pertain to a final explaination.

Josh H

No, all that flood did was kill their horses and disrobe them. They're all still alive.

Giantrobo

... in the book it was Gandalf that made the water look like horses in addition to the Elf magic that made the water come down. "An added touch".

Giantrobo

In the BOOK TTT, I just read this part this morning , Gandalf tells Legalos(sp?) that the black flying thing he killed while searching for Merry and Pippin was another beast the Wraiths were using after the horses were killed and that he could NOT kill the Wraith with his bow.

spiderx

All nine riders were there when the flood killed their horses, both in the book and in the movie. Why else would they have stopped searching for the Ring for some time? The ninth rider probably appears in the forest just before the river. If you don't believe me, you can count them . It's quite tricky though because when they're fleeing from the giant wave, 1-2 of them are hidden behind others most of the time. So the best opportunity to count them is right after Arwen says "If you want him, come and claim him!". After that, I'm sure, you agree with me .

chipmac

Nope sorry I still can't make out the riders from the horses when I try to count them at the river. I need to find someone with a zoom funtion on their player.

I know at the beginning of the chase the riders were weaving in and out of the trees but I think it's kind of odd to show an overhead view of all but one chasing her in that V formation. For such a cool visual shot I just thought that all nine should be there if all nine are in fact chasing her at that point.

spiderx

If you still don't believe me, then I'll have to prove it to you . Look at the screen capture below. You should be able to see nine Black Riders (and a white rider) on that picture.

chipmac

You might be right but I always thought that the one I have the arrow pointing to was a rock in the background. If you look closely it's a different shade of black than the ones next to it and the way it slopes down to the left made me think it was a triangluar shaped boulder sticking out of the water. I also thought that I saw it stay in place when the water washes the rest of them away. I'm not trying to prove you wrong but just pointing out what I always believed to be the case.

Hannibal

V. Secret Diary of Ringwraith No. 5

Day 1

Just opened Christmas pressie from Sauron. Pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty ring!

Day 1,000,967

Got box of chocolates as Christmas bonus from Dark Lord, again. As per usual, Sauron ate all the toffees and left the strawberry creams. How I detest this life of vile servitude.

Still disembodied.

Day 1,001,056

V. bored in Barad-Dur. Nothing to do but play Scrabble with Orcs. Is v. annoying as Orcs only know Black Speech of Mordor. You try spelling Azg Nazg Gimbatul for a triple word score. Yeah, I didn?t think so.

Day 1,001,102

Suspect Sauron gearing up for something. Walked in on him applying ceremonial sparkly mascara. Suspect he will be v. happy when he has body back and can really dress up again.

Day 1,001,105
Yes, Sauron definitely gearing up for something. Have been given orders to sally forth and hunt down hobbit and close personal hobbit friend, who have somehow gotten hold of Ruling Ring.
Witch-King of Angmar?s suggestion to place pictures of Ruling Ring on milk cartons and wait for calls to come in was ignored.

Day 1,001,106

Have been given brand spanking new horse.
Not for spanking, of course.
Go me!
On minus side, still disembodied.

Day 1,001,107

V. close to nabbing Ringbearer tonight, but head Nazgul suffered attack of giggles while observing excessive cuddliness of Ringbearer and his three ?companions.?

Suspect Gandalf chose Ringbearer on account of big blue eyes and pouty lower lip, rather than possession of heroic-type fortitude.

Will catch up with pretty-boy Hobbit and harem of pint-sized boyfriends in Bree. V. much looking forward to post-slaughter booze-up.

Day 1,001,109

Drat that Aragorn. Drat Isildur and all his Heirs. Generations of pervy Hobbit-fanciers, of no use to anyone. Son of Arathorn has Hobbit-napped the Ringbearer. To combat disappointment at failure to achieve goals set by Sauron, spent all night boozing it up in Bree. Breelanders v. informative.
Drinks: 10 Mai Tais (then impaled innkeeper on swizzle stick)
Killed: 17 human men. Go us!

Day 1,001,115

Have been following Isildur?s heir and pack of Hobbits for six days.
Aragorn obviously into Ringbearer. Sam will kill him if he tries anything.

Day 1,001,116

Got slightly over-frisky with Ringbearer at Weathertop. Aragorn went all wonky and possessive and set me on fire. And indeed, Sam did try to kill me although did not notice had been hit in knees with frying pan until later on.


Day 1,001,119

Met she-elf girlfriend of Isildur?s Heir today. Was so busy laughing at concept of Aragorn the Hobbit Fancier having ?girlfriend? that inconveniently got washed away in stream.
Horse dead, armor all rusted. Must return to Mordor for oiling.
No, not that kind of oiling.
Rather a pervy wraith-fancier, aren?t you, what?

Giles

Here's what I have intrepreted from the books and seen in the movies, the Jackson (and Bakshi versions). One, the Witch King is the one wraith that actually stabs Frodo with his sword. Two, all the Nazgul are wiped out at the River. Three, since they are invinceable, but their horses are not (don't ask) they get the winged beasts. Four, in one of the long shots of Barad-Dur (sic) I noted two winged Nazgul flying around the tower.