hahn

It's crappy enough that Miramax pushed back the release just to keep it from diluting Oscar votes for its other movies. Now that the deadline's past, there STILL isn't a release date. I hope this serves as a warning to all future foreign film makers to stay away from Miramax. It has gotten absolutely zippo promotion.

Rypro 525

Also miramax according to imdb, has cut the movie by 24 minutes???

clemente

If Miramax's plan is to get some Oscar heat for Hero next year then I wouldn't expect to see this till next December.

hahn

That's just it - I don't get the impression that they want ANY Oscar heat for Hero other than best foreign film. Foreign film category nomination deadlines are later than for the other Oscar categories. Thus, it is eligible for that, but that's it. Besides, the movie's already opened in NYC. I doubt they'll hold until next December. By then, it'll have been on DVD in Asia, which means many many copies will have made its way here.

torrance

nov 2003..

hahn

please tell me you're joking!

torrance

i en't jokin. pretty disappointing but miramass has its reasons.

it certainly wouldn't sell anytime after march imo. no summer movie, and they want the oscar. revenge against sony for CTHD or something. :P

Comingsoon.net lists Hero as "november TBA" as does IMDB.

The Bus

Miramax,

You cut Hero, and I buy a bootleg.

Thank you.

hahn

man, that's just cruel considering they already showed it in NYC. oh well, at least it has a shot at 2004 Oscars then. man, i can't believe i have to wait another 10 months.

eXcentris

You probably won't. The R3 DVD will be out before that.

Numskull

I don't want to see any Oscars go to a foreign movie that's been cut for its American release. It ain't right. There should only be one theatrical version of any movie: the WHOLE one.

Anyway, the DVD will be out long before MiramAxe releases the film. (The way they "think": a movie doesn't officially exist until they slap their logo on it and remove at least one scene.) When the U.S. debut looms near, I plan on sending copies to magazines like Entertainment Weekly so they can see for themselves how the Miramax version has been altered. It might not get mentioned, but it is worth a shot.

clemente

I dunno, those four hours first cuts which are the whole one can be pretty painful.

Grimfarrow

Okay, there seems to be a lot of confusion and false information out about Hero right now. Let me clear some of them out of the way first.

The "Hero" release in the US will NOT be cut by 24 minutes.

The US version of "Hero" will be exactly the same as the version shown in Hong Kong and China. This version is about 90 minutes long (I would know, I've seen it).

So where did this rumor come from? It is because the Director's Cut of the film *is* indeed 2 hours.

However, *ALL* theatrical releases around the world of "Hero" is the 90+ minute version of the film, with the 2-hour version being a DVD exclusive when it is released later this Spring.

Numskull said that there should be only one theatricla version of any movie. I'm just wondering - does this apply to Lord of the Rings as well? This is because that is exactly what they are doing with Hero, it seems.

Numskull

Last things first: YES, it should apply to Lord of the Rings. I specified "theatrical." The extended DVD version of Fellowship of the Ring, in case you didn't notice, was not shown in theaters.

Also: you seem awfully confident that the version of Hero shown in U.S. theaters will be the same version shown in other theaters. Need I remind you that this is MIRAMAX we're dealing with here? The depths of stupidity and dishonor to which they will stoop in their quest to mutilate films from other countries are limitless. They might have given Hero an uncut token screening for the Golden Globe nomination, but if and when they get around to a widespread release, just watch at least a few minutes of footage (not necessarily 24, mind you) disappear.

Either way...I'm getting the DVD when it comes out, assuming it has English subtitles (most Asian DVDs do, especially those from China and Hong Kong). It will be a cold day in hell before I hand any money over to Miramax when there are other options available.

clemente

Tread lightly Grim....you know how we don't like to be confronted with rational thinking and the truth!

Grimfarrow

Numbskull, "Hero" has already been shown a few times in the US, most recently at the Palm Springs Film Festival. The running time is exactly the same as the Asian theatrical release of the film. And cutting 24 minutes from a 90+ minute film is just not going to happen.

Not only that, the Asian release has everything in place, from the Miramax title to English subtitle which is obviously downgraded to the most asinine level for the US audience. The English subtitles are truly atrocious, but you are just not going to get a different version of it, unfortunately.

Numskull

Yeah. "A few times." At art house theaters and film festivals. How do you know, with 100% certainty, that they won't make cuts (and, I feel compelled to reiterate, I specifically stated that it might not necessarily be 24 minutes, yet you implied that that was exactly what I meant) if and when they give it a WIDESPREAD release? You don't.

Grimfarrow

Numbskull, I can tell you right now exactly why the film really does NOT deserve a wide release in the US.

"Hero" is not a new Crouching Tiger. In fact, "Hero" is the very definition of an art film.

If it opened wide in the US, I can guarantee that it will BOMB. Judging from the reaction in Hong Kong, where a LOT of people came out of the theaters going, "What the heck was that about! It has no plot! It sucks!", I can say safely that it is not a commerical film.

Moreover, not only is "Hero" non-commercial, it is also a propagandist film in every sense. I will not give it away, but let's just say that if you don't agree with the Communsit Chinese' thinking, you may find a lot to disagree with the film.

I personally really quite liked the film, even though I do not buy the film's ultimate "message" one bit. But I think most of the joe-six-packs who were convinced into Crouching Tiger will definitely not understand anything at all in Hero. Not that the atrocious subtitles won't already do that, mind you.

Patman

I was surprised when my Dad wanted to know when "Hero" would show up at the theaters. That just blew my mind because parents are pretty clueless when it comes to current films.

Numskull

So you didn't like it and it's not CTHD. That means it doesn't "deserve" a widespread release in the US? Don't pretend to know ahead of time what American audiences will and won't like. I'll bet you didn't think they'd like CTHD either.

Grimfarrow

Ummm....did you READ what I wrote? I said I liked "Hero" quite a bit. Heck, it is in my Top 10 of 2002!

Conversely, I really thought CTHD was incredibly overrated. To give you an idea, I gave "Hero" an 8/10, "Ashes of Time" a 9/10, and CTHD a middling 5/10.

I know the American audience, alright. They'd go for stale, overly Westernized but beautiful films like CTHD. What they will not go for is a film which is so utterly Chinese it might as well be a propagandist film for the Chinese Communist Party.

For some reason, you are hyping yourself WAY too much about Hero. I have a feeling that you'll be the first in DVDTalk to say "Hero sucks! Most disappointing film of the year!" after you see it. Hero is closer to "In the Mood for Love" (with a political agenda added) than it is to CTHD, and that already sizably limits its mainstream appeal.

The Bus

Wow, now I really can't wait!!!!

Krug

Hmm I'm divided over it. Aesthetically it's brilliant, and the fighting scenes are more dance-like than the standard fighting scenes. It feels more like an essay than a film at times, and some unwise use of CGI that made things look very, very tacky. (eg: ping-ponging a water droplet between two combatants) Then there's the film's political subtext which has the Chinese government embracing it; quite a different response from the usual Zhang Yi Mou film.

Visually it's brilliant, but still a flawed piece. I suspect a lot of the missing film that's supposed to be in the director's cut went into the relationship between Donnie Yen's character and Maggie Cheung's. The spearhead of Donnie Yen plays a bigger role than he does.

7/10 for me.

Grimfarrow

Krug, thanks for sharing your views. I also really disliked the "water droplet" scene - the overuse of CGI pretty much made me dock off some major points off of it. Of course, we've both already mentioned the propagandist part of the film, so let's not belabor the point...

Actually, what I really liked about the film was the interpretation of the word "sword". I thought that had quite a lot of depth for something that is not the main point. That and the falling leaves sequence

Some history into the personality of Emperor Qin is also helpful, and I understand why Zhang Yimou did the film like Rashomon instead of a narrative. The Rashomon-like structure purposefully sets up up for the end, and I find this point to be very accomplished, if a bit controversial.

HistoryProf

Doesn't the fact that this is on the slate for this year's Acadamy screenings make the theory that they'll hold it till next fall for Oscar consideration moot?

http://home.attbi.com/~kenru/2002-3_...ign_Films.html

I would think that this will get a showing at a few more art house theaters, but that's about it.....it just doesn't sound like something that'll have that much wide appeal here in America.