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Peter Jackson needs a new fight choreographer

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Peter Jackson needs a new fight choreographer

Old 12-19-02, 08:14 PM
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Peter Jackson needs a new fight choreographer

Or maybe he doesn't have one at all in the first place.

I actually liked the movie a whole lot, and while I don't necessarily like all of the changes made from the source material, I can see how most of these changes make it a better movie overall.

My only real problem with the movie has nothing to do with differences between movie and book- I thought the major failing of this movie was muddled fight scenes. For a movie based around war and battle, there were nice shots of the whole army, and great shots of charges into battle, but the actual combat scenes were not really very demonstrative.

Tons of one hit kills.. the only time I really remember the clang of sword hitting sword (or knife) was when Aragorn blocks Eowen's practice swing. There was no real fighting! A moderate degree of killing, but no fighting!

Even the scene in the great hall of Theodon just shows the three heroes sort of pushing the guys down and away from Gandalf. I mean, these guys are bad-ass hero type guys, why gloss over so many opportunities to demonstrate?
Old 12-19-02, 08:27 PM
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True. true. I don't think he needs a new fight choreographer though, it was the way it was edited. First one had cool action sequences, especially the last one. Or could it be that it was too dark, so we couldn't tell what was going on?
Old 12-19-02, 08:31 PM
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For one they can't show too much actual fighting, given that it's swords and would be gory and graphic, and still retain the coveted PG-13 rating.
Old 12-19-02, 08:34 PM
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I have to agree. Those Uruk-Hai get killed and pushed around far too easily for how big they are.

The coolest, baddest Uruk-Hai is still Lurtz, the big one that Aragorn kills in the first movie. He didn't go down easy.
Old 12-19-02, 08:41 PM
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"Size matters not."

They're bred out of the mud full grown and I doubt they get all that much training. They're not supposed to be skilled fighters. That's why saruman sent so many, to win by outnumbering the opponent hopelessly, which would have worked if not for the reinforcements.
Old 12-19-02, 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by Josh Hinkle
For one they can't show too much actual fighting, given that it's swords and would be gory and graphic, and still retain the coveted PG-13 rating.
I don't think he's talking about more gore. What he means is that there was no fighting, just one swing and you're dead kind of a deal and I agree. I would have liked to have seen more one on one combat than - cling, next opponent, cling next opponent. Oh well, I was awe struck by the battle anyway, but it could have been better.

edited - another think that sticks out like a sore thumb is at the end when Gandalf and Co. charge the Urukhai (spelling?) the battle just ends with very little fighting after that.

Last edited by purplechoe; 12-19-02 at 08:47 PM.
Old 12-19-02, 08:51 PM
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That point is answered by my above post, the uruk hai aren't trained skilled warriors, they aren't going to last long against men and elves that have been warriors their whole lives.
Old 12-19-02, 09:13 PM
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Training or no training, something that big probably cannot be consistently killed with one sword slash or thrust. Anyway, my convern wasn't just with the Uruk-hai, or with those types of issues.

What I am talking about is actual fighting skill. My example was the brief fight at the Hall of Theodon. Half a dozen burly horsemen, taken out by a dwarf, and elf, and a wandering king is not unbelievable at all, but it would have been nice to see something besides what looked like a bunch of 2nd graders in a playground shoving match.

I am sure some of it was to avoid actual violence (although there were enough spears through the chest that I think some parrying and dodging wouldn't be too much to ask), but I'll have to go with matrixrok and say maybe it was just bad editing. And maybe it was too dark.

All I'm saying is that I spent too much time looking at the "fight" scenes wondering what the hell was going on. I'm not looking for a Jackie Chan movie, or Braveheart, just a little actual fighting.

Think of it this way: the coolest thing about Attack of the Clones was that Jedis are bad-ass. The reason we know they are bad-ass is all those Jedi fights with cool choreography. All we have in the TTT is Legolas surfing down the stairs shooting arrows, and MEN AND Uruk-Hai falling to the ground like babes every time anyone touches them.
Old 12-19-02, 09:20 PM
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Check out Boromir's fight/death scene at the end of the first movie again and compare it to the kind of fighting we had in TTT. Yes he is dispatching untrained Uruk-hai with ease, even with arrows in him, but he is like, dodging, taking a blow on the sword and kicking another guy etc. That is all I'm saying was missing.

They show Legolas whipping out the two short swords/long knives, but he never really fights with them. They could have done a little speeded up Steven Seagal fight (without the blood and compound fractures) for about 10 seconds and made the movie twice as good for me.
Old 12-19-02, 09:44 PM
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Yep; someone better tell him before they do Return of the King!

I think the fighting was pretty good, but I can see where people would think it could be better.
Old 12-19-02, 09:59 PM
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I think the point in TTT was the scale of the battle. It was heroic team effort, especially helms deep. FOTR was just a few guys (4 of whom where hobbits and not that good in a fight) so there was more emphasis on individual heroism and fighing skills for the few to beat incredible odds.
Old 12-20-02, 01:14 AM
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Don't worry Ken. We still do have an extended version coming out. And one of the things PJ added was a few moments in Moria and a minute or so at Amon Hen. Since alot of this movie is fighting maybe a good portion of that 30 minutes will be new fight stuff. Then you, and I, will be happy(er). :cheers:
Old 12-20-02, 02:57 AM
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Originally posted by Teremei
Don't worry Ken. We still do have an extended version coming out. And one of the things PJ added was a few moments in Moria and a minute or so at Amon Hen. Since alot of this movie is fighting maybe a good portion of that 30 minutes will be new fight stuff. Then you, and I, will be happy(er). :cheers:
I agree. I think a few more moments will be added to the fight sequences in the extended edition since to keep them would have meant making the movie too long for theaters.

Of course we all get to see the goodness on dvd next year
Old 12-20-02, 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by Teremei
maybe a good portion of that 30 minutes will be new fight stuff...
It's been rumored that there will be an hour added back into TTT, as the first cut was 4 hours long.
Old 12-20-02, 06:52 PM
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Peter Jackson did say somewhere that the extended cut will be rated R. I'll go look for it...

TTT gets 9/10 from me.

Minor dislikes:
Occasionally looked too CG-ish.
I also woulda liked to see more individual fights, like the original poster said.

Likes:
too many to list.
Old 12-20-02, 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by TCG
Minor dislikes:
Occasionally looked too CG-ish.
I also woulda liked to see more individual fights, like the original poster said.

Likes:
too many to list.
I didn't feel it was too CGI-ish. Now if you wanna talk too much CGI...cough, AOTC, cough...

And I agree with your other two sentiments though.
Old 12-21-02, 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by MrKen
Training or no training, something that big probably cannot be consistently killed with one sword slash or thrust. Anyway, my convern wasn't just with the Uruk-hai, or with those types of issues.
Yeah, they would have more hit points than that!


Let me stick you with a sword or hit you with an axe and see how long you keep at it.
Old 12-22-02, 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by DeputyDave
Yeah, they would have more hit points than that!


Let me stick you with a sword or hit you with an axe and see how long you keep at it.
Totally agree, and if you get knocked down by a sword or axe in a major battle, especially if you are an orc, you're probably going to be left there to bleed to death. Also, the elves were using the equivalent of the English longbow, which made armor obsolete at the battle of Agincourt. Also, a lot of the fights took place on the bridge so all Aragorn and Gimli really had to do was knock them off.

Last edited by Harlock415; 12-22-02 at 04:32 PM.

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