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Equilibrium: reviews - what gives?

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Equilibrium: reviews - what gives?

Old 12-12-02, 03:07 AM
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I'm seeing it again tomorrow, just for the action scenes.

Gun-Kata rules.
Old 12-13-02, 02:33 AM
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Support this movie this weekend!
Old 12-13-02, 03:10 AM
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Just caught this film tonight and I absolutely loved it. This movie captured me much more than the Matrix did and the action sequences are just phenomenal in my opinion. Hopefully I can catch it again before its out of theaters in a week or two.

Also, why can't Miramax/Dimension actually promote this film instead of the ridiculous looking Pinocchio coming out shortly? Seems like they'd have a much bigger chance of capturing an audience with Equilibrium.
Old 12-13-02, 11:01 AM
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I agree...wow nothing but positive reviews here so far!
Old 12-13-02, 11:42 AM
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My friend and my bro thought the last part's concept was kind of like "Time and Tide". I thought about it and it's kind of like "Time and Tide". By the way, both of them liked it!
Old 12-13-02, 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by Derrich
I thought I was the only one who got 'giddy' during the action scenes. It's good to know I'm not alone.

The sheer glee that overwhelms an action fan during this movie in incredible. It's like someone made a movie just for us.


D

Funny that you mention that. There is an incredible EQ discussion over at Chud.com and the director has taken some time to answer a few questions. I love this partucular response.


****************************


--Do you consider yourself to be an action-oriented director or is there a genre you are drawn to moreso than others?

/// I love and have always loved and will always love action. Great action to me is better than food, better than sex, better than anything. I remember vividly every single moment of great action I have ever seen in the theater, when I saw it, and the elation I felt when I saw it. Action makes my heart pound just thinking about it. I'm in love with the heroic ideal which is probably kind of corny in an age of advancing cynicism but I can't help it. For a man on film, there is no greater moment than the instant when he suddenly gives up everything he knows or thought he ever wanted and starts whipping ass for love or principle. Action is romance for men. To me it's the way men express love on screen. Love for a woman, a country, a dog - by kicking the living **** out of anybody who dares do those objects of his simplistic adoration wrong. Sigh . . . Having said that though, there are many non-action oriented films I feel passionate enough about to long to direct. Any pure science fiction - I also love spy thrillers and cop dramas if they're hard. I like plot mechanics a lot and love stories about people ****ing each other over and victims who cleverly un**** themselves at the last moment.
Old 12-14-02, 12:16 AM
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hell yeah! just saw it!

the fight scenes were amazing...even though i had high expectations going in (due to this board) i still loved them. the first one...wow.

the last one...holy ****.

i never liked bale...til now.

go see it!

(btw; my theater sucked...it was in a small theater with no theater seating...all seats same level which is stupid...lots of people talking and walking in and out...wtf? the light from the hallway kept bothering me as people opened the door over nad over and over...then people actually coming into the movie with like 10 minutes left right before the last scene...wtf are they doing? i hate people)
Old 12-14-02, 12:25 AM
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more on what i loved...

Spoiler:


at the beginning when it went black for like 10 seconds, everyone in theater thought the film was broken...then you hear the whispering...then bale just f****** kicks mother f****** ***!!!

the flat line part...

'no, not without incidence' AWESOME!

i also loved the scene when he walked into what seemed an empty room (cept diggs and the other dude)...then 6 guys walk from behing the columns...very bad ass

Old 12-14-02, 01:53 AM
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Ah...more great reviews. This movie ROCKS!
Old 12-14-02, 09:32 AM
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Penny Arcade liked it:

Old 12-14-02, 12:56 PM
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lol.
Old 12-15-02, 05:38 PM
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Spoilers!

Well, looks like I'm going to be the lone dissenter on this movie. I pretty much agreed with the critics on this one. I went to see it today pretty much just based on all the buzz on this thread, but I was pretty disappointed. I didn't really think the movie added anything new to the genre, especially considering so much the story is rehashed from Fahrenheit 451 and 1984. I also thought it was pretty amusing how people who show "emotion" and "feeling" were supposed to be executed, yet practically all the major characters showed those aspects of humanity whether or not they were on "Father's" side or on the side of the resistence. Anger and pride in Taye Diggs character, Anger in Bale's superior, etc. Those are emotions....Hello! I didn't even think the action scenes were that amazing except for a few moments here and there. I liked the middle scene when he gets caught with the puppy and has a bunch of guys surrounding him and goes berzerk with the guns, but then they repeat pretty much the same thing two times more, just modifying the weapon usage a little bit (and that's not even counting the very first scene where it all happens in the dark). Then there's the anticlimactic showdown with Diggs which ended before it even began. Plus, the lobby-like scene which looked like a pretty sad attempt at copying the Matrix. Atleast, while the Matrix didn't offer a ton of new stuff in the story compartment, I think it did a better job at twisting around the various past movie references into something of its own. Now, I'm not saying this movie was garbage or anything, I'd probably give it something like a B- but I hardly think this is some astounding film like it has been made out to be in this thread.

Last edited by Jamezuva; 12-15-02 at 05:40 PM.
Old 12-15-02, 11:43 PM
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This is all you gotta know:







Just look at the last one. Can you say BADASS? Neo, you better watch out, lol. Matrix paved new way in terms of special effects, but the way they handled guns was quite traditional, nothing special. This movie doesn't really use many special effects, but in my opinion, broke new ground in terms of how firearms were handled. Both movies I think are great.

Last edited by UKingdom; 12-15-02 at 11:47 PM.
Old 12-16-02, 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by Jamezuva
Spoilers!
I also thought it was pretty amusing how people who show "emotion" and "feeling" were supposed to be executed, yet practically all the major characters showed those aspects of humanity whether or not they were on "Father's" side or on the side of the resistence. Anger and pride in Taye Diggs character, Anger in Bale's superior, etc. Those are emotions....Hello! I didn't even think the action scenes were that amazing except for a few moments here and there.

Perhaps you were taking everything at face value (which is understandable considering it was only your first viewing), but have you ever considered....

Spoiler:
...that DuPont (the Father impersonator) and Brandt (Diggs) WEREN'T on Librium? Both of them have emotional outbursts that signal this (which are hard to not notice), but there's more to it. The final scene in Father's office was extremely ornate. Beautiful architectual details, oil paintings on the walls, and an enourmous chandelier. If you view the movie a 2nd time, you'll notice how when Preston (Bale) first walks in, the camera does a slow pan around the room from Preston's POV, so you can notice the opulence.

DuPont also reveals himself at the end, when he's pleading for his life. It went something like, "Don't shoot me! I'm alive! I can feel. Can you kill me after knowing this?"

Is this a gaping plothole? Not in the least. Is this a desperate attempt to explain something without any basis in logic? I don't think so. Throughout history, many totalitarian regimes have existed. The ruling elite typically placed restrictions on the way of life of the masses, without following those rules themselves. Look at the "socialist" regimes of the former USSR, Cuba, and China. Is Fidel Castro slumming it with his countrymen? The same totalitarian concept exists in Libria. The leadership lives in opulence and enjoys their position, while the masses are drugged into feeling complacent in their position in society.


I just thought I'd throw that out for you to consider. I can't say I blame you for noting that "emotion plothole" since 90% of the nation's critics drew the exact same conclusion. After reading their opinions, you may have been predisposed to their opinions, which quite frankly, shows that they didn't expect this film to carry that sort of message.
Old 12-16-02, 11:44 AM
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good stuff gioman. that certainly could be the case.

i think critics were too focused on criticizing the movie (after they made up their mind in the first 10 minutes or probably before they entered the theater) and therefore looked for ways to rip the movie. that was an easy target.

ukingdon; nice pics! i love the first and the last one doesnt do justice until you see the movie and
Spoiler:
HOW he got the guns and into that position
Old 12-16-02, 12:01 PM
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Does anyone know if the soundtrack to Equilibrium has been released?


Also with regards to Brandt displaying emotions....I believe in the beginning of the film, Brandt mentioned something about "getting is dosage adjusted".

Last edited by candyrocket786; 12-16-02 at 12:04 PM.
Old 12-16-02, 12:24 PM
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SPOILERS

I can see why you'd think that those two villains were not taking their Librium, but taking that assumption into account, how come none of the other enforcers were able to detect that these people weren't taking their meds and were feeling emotions. Plus, the emotional outburst of Diggs after he captures Bale weeping would lead me to think he'd be automatically executed on the spot considering he expressed anger in front of a bunch of people.

I forgot to mention the fact there was no rationale behind while Bale was so much a better fighter than anyone else. As far as the story goes, he wasn't set apart in any way from anyone else like Reeves was in the Matrix. He may be the best fighter on the planet, but I think it is laughable that he can kill everyone simultaneously without getting hurt at all. I would think that the main villain would have had some of his best fighters protecting him, and since they should have had the same training as Bale did, it doesn't make sense that there is such a disparity between him and everyone else

Also, I didn't actually read any of the critics reviews before seeing this movie, I just saw the tomato-meter rating at www.rottentomatoes.com and also i had heard 2nd hand from posters here that the critics weren't too impressed.

Last edited by Jamezuva; 12-16-02 at 01:22 PM.
Old 12-16-02, 01:26 PM
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MAJOR SPOILERS THROUGHOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Jamezuva, you bring up some good points.

I can see why you'd think that those two villains were not taking their Librium, but taking that assumption into account, how come none of the other enforcers were able to detect that these people weren't taking their meds and were feeling emotions.

You can see why I'd think that? The only thing the movie didn't do was put out a giant neon billboard on their backs stating, I'M NOT ON LIBRIUM!

As far as the other enforcers not detecting the emotions of either Brandt or DuPont, the movie provides plenty of clues. First of all, being that DuPont is the leader of the Clerics and Brandt is his de facto right-hand man, they'd be well versed in concealing their abilities. Even with Brandt breaking into that fascist grin every 10 minutes, he told Preston (and presumably others he had regular contact with) that he needed to get his Librium levels adjusted. Anything "out of the ordinary" could be immediately blamed on improper Librium levels, which could be "immediately acted upon". Besides, this guy is a Grammaton Cleric.

His huge outburst after finding an emotionally devastated Preston appears to have taken place inside the Cleric stronghold. He surely aroused attention, but at the time, the admission of a Cleric working with the leaders of the Resistance was probably a bigger shock than anything Brandt did. Of course, if you were Joe Libria, and you saw a Grammaton Cleric going apeshit, are you going to get in his way, because he's violating a law? It's like the proverbial 800 lb gorrilla. The man who had the ultimate authority to decide his fate would be DuPont, not your average cop, or even another Cleric. Notice how Brandt had unmistakable evidence of Preston's duplicity, yet he dragged him into Dupont's office instead of immediately executing him.

In the end, Brandt's outburst blended in perfectly well with the events that followed, especially since in the end, he WANTED Preston to turn him in so he could have "a false sense of security" (actual movie quote), to lure the Resistance and Preston to their death. Considering the fact that Brandt had one hell of a public outburst, seeing him getting tagged as the traitor Cleric and dragged away from DuPont's office wouldn't strike anyone as odd.

Basically, he knew at the moment (or perhaps a bit later) that Preston pulled a gun switch on him, and banked on Preston (a rather sharp fellow, mind you) on using that evidence to tag Brandt as the traitor. The emotional outburst in the lobby only sold the story even more to anyone who happened to notice a Grammaton Cleric being dragged away (presumaby to his death).

Being that WE KNOW there was a plan hatched by the two antagonists, it's not hard to reach these conclusions. The film doesn't really spell everything out, but IMHO, it's pretty well explained once you account for all the facts.
Old 12-16-02, 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by Jamezuva
SPOILERS


I forgot to mention the fact there was no rationale behind while Bale was so much a better fighter than anyone else. As far as the story goes, he wasn't set apart in any way from anyone else like Reeves was in the Matrix. He may be the best fighter on the planet, but I think it is laughable that he can kill everyone simultaneously without getting hurt at all. I would think that the main villain would have had some of his best fighters protecting him, and since they should have had the same training as Bale did, it doesn't make sense that there is such a disparity between him and everyone else

Does every movie really need to have an explanation why the character is better than the others? Maybe he just had more skills than the other characters. Look at Time and Tide for instance, a movie I mentioned in my earlier posts. The main character worked all of his former teammates and there was no explanation to it. It's given that he had more skills than them. To me that explanation is good enough. That scene with Taye Diggs and Bale at the end that you talked about, I liked that scene because it showed how great Bale's character was compared to Father's right hand man.
Old 12-16-02, 03:48 PM
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John Preston, Tetragrammaton Cleric, 1st Class=ULTIMATE BADASS MOTHERF...........


The film even indicates that he was some kinda of "cleric prodigy".....he could sense what other people were feeling, etc...(not all clerics had their abilities as tuned as Preston).

I believe his emotions also made him a better fighter.
Old 12-16-02, 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Jamezuva
SPOILERS


I forgot to mention the fact there was no rationale behind while Bale was so much a better fighter than anyone else. As far as the story goes, he wasn't set apart in any way from anyone else like Reeves was in the Matrix. He may be the best fighter on the planet, but I think it is laughable that he can kill everyone simultaneously without getting hurt at all. I would think that the main villain would have had some of his best fighters protecting him, and since they should have had the same training as Bale did, it doesn't make sense that there is such a disparity between him and everyone else


MORE SPOILERS!!!!!!!


No rationale? How about will? He went from a man without a tangible purpose in life, to a man in pain, hellbent on bringing down a system that was suppressing the many forms of humanity. He had a drive to succeed that none of the other nameless gun-kata fodder possessed.

As far as his skills are concerned, only he and DuPont are specifically referred to as Grammaton Clerics, First Order. I don't even think Brandt was associated with that title. He is known both as "the Cleric that trains the hardest" and "the best" several times in the film, by several individuals. He was even recognized by the regular cop as Cleric John Preston, First Order during the famous puppy scene. After flashing the light to his face, he immediately asked for forgiveness.

For all we know, him and DuPont are the ONLY First Order Clerics, and that's not difficult to assume, since the only person Preston reported to was DuPont, and the only person DuPont reported to was the position of Father Himself! This was why DuPont was able to easily masquerade as Father, since at his rank, he's the only person in power that had access to him. The other Clerics in the room could have EASILY been 3rd or 4th class Clerics, which would be quite effective against average fighters, but not a (drumroll please) Grammaton Cleric, First Order.

As to his quick killing of Brandt? Because of his relative success in the earlier sparring match, he thought he was going against "John Preston - Emotional Wreck". The reason why he was so successful sparring against him was because Preston was just coming to grips with his emotions, and was unfocused. When he flatlined the polygraph, he showed how he turned his emotional distress into nerves of steel, and "went into the Zone", to use the sports cliche. Brandt was also exhibiting plenty of arrogance, the way he casually reached for his sword and delivered his perfect smile. What he wasn't expecting was a far different Preston than the man he once had a close match with. That said, the last thing that crossed Brandt's mind was......well, it was Preston's sword. [biggrin]

The fight with DuPont was a fight between two Clerics of the highest order, and hell, it looked like it.

Plot points aside, I love how everyone expected the typical "10 minute sword fight", only to have it end within a few seconds. The DuPont duel was plenty satisfying anyways.
Old 12-16-02, 06:27 PM
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SPOILERS

Ok, you do make good points about the emotions of the villains, and I meant to say that I do agree with you about the fact that they were not taking their Librium...

However...if Preston was such a great cleric, then how come he couldn't detect the emotions of other people, such as Brandt, and his children despite being in very close contact with them? And if you could blame a little hint of emotion here or there on faulty librium levels, then I don't see why any other person couldn't make the same argument. In fact, I would expect Joe Librium to have more trouble with correct dosing compared to someone like Dupont who is central to the hierarchy. If I were Preston, I wouldn't believe Dupont's excuse over and over again since if Librium wasn't that good of a drug to control emotion, then the clerics' killing of people would get out of hand (moreso that it already was of course...relative to the standard set in the movie ). Also, if Librium is like any other drug, the effect should increase with increasing dose unless there is tolerance or there is some toxicity (side effect) of the drug which the movie didn't touch upon at all. So a faulty level excuse shouldn't be accepted because you should clearly take a high enough dose to prevent any possible emotional symptom. Also, even if he was such a great fighter due to "will" and being "the best," that still doesn't explain how he can basically kick so much ass without getting hurt. I can see maybe how he could take on 6 guys at a time and such, but the number of baddies he killed at the end was ridiculous for one person just because he's "used" to his emotions and has determination. Exactly how many bullets have to be flying through the air at a given time in a small area of space before the limits of human movement lead to him getting nipped by one? Just because another movie has a similar situation (e.g. Time And Tide), it doesn't mean it's justified. I can live with the Matrix because Reeve's ability was justified in that movie, in Time and Tide and here, I don't think it was justified

Last edited by Jamezuva; 12-16-02 at 06:29 PM.
Old 12-16-02, 09:16 PM
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It's your loss that you don't believe in the art of Gunkata! J/K. I never thought of it that way thouh, that it's so bs that they don't get hit. To me the mood is already set from the beginning that they're bad mofo's who can't be hit. I liked the concept of Gunkata, if you look at it carefully when he was doing the moves, he was parrying the guns so they couldn't even point it at him. Awesome detail! If you didn't buy the first action scene, then you probably wouldn't liked the action scenes that follow, but if you did it's weird how you still didn't buy it at the end. But then again, I'm also a John Woo fan and the main characters barely gets hit by bullets. So I'm used to it!
Old 12-16-02, 10:01 PM
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I guess I've only got one confused point about the movie: How did the gun switch take place? I remember seeing Diggs passing Bale his gun saying to use it if his weapon was low...Bale took it in his right hand and then passed back the gun in his left hand. I understand that set up, but didn't this happen AFTER the murder of the police, the crime of which he is convicted of? At least, I'm assuming its the murder that occured while he had the puppy in his trunk. Even if its the murders that happened while he tried to free those few freedom fighters, that gun switch still happened after those killings too. Just when I thought I figured it out.....anyways....

I saw this sucker 3 and 1/4 times, and I hated it. NOT. Great flick, and hopefully there will be some more footage in the dvd.
Old 12-16-02, 11:42 PM
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yeah i couldnt remember which came first - the murder of the police or the gun switching scene. i know it had to be the switch but for some reason i cant remember it.

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