It's true that if Spirit Away does well, Disney would profit. But look at the larger picture. If Japanese Animation (anime) get a foot hold in the US and start gaining huge audience, wouldn't it eat into Disney's animated movies? Aren't anime essentially competing against Disney animation in this case? Looking it from this perspective, it makes sense that Disney wouldn't want Spirit Away to do well here so they can protect their own market. Is this a sound reasoning?

That's a really good point. I don't think at the this point in time that Disney sees anime as a potential "threat" and is intentionally trying to squash it. But it definitley wouldn't benefit the Mouse if a studio like Studio Ghilbi, Sunrise or Toho got a major foothold in America. Disney isn't exactly Microsoft but they would be very protective of a market that they defined.

I've said this a few times on these message boards, that largely animation geared toward an older crowd in the U.S. has fallen flat. With the exception of possibley Shrek, there hasn't been a major hit in this country that would be of a more "adult" nature ( Shrek is more "family" oriented but there are enough fart jokes to keep grown ups interested). I still believe, and I've said this numerous times before on this message board, that if there was a Star Wars animated film or series of films that was well written and well animated then movie goers in this country would take animation more seriously. It has the largest fanbase and would translate well into the animated medium. Personally I'd love to see an X-Men animated film but it's too closely associated now with saturday morning.

Doesnt Studio Ghibli have a contract or something with Disney Japan?

I though i remember reading that somewhere...anyway...if that is true then Studio Ghibli is exactly like PIXAR.


Moving on...

I was under the impression that anime did have a foothold in the US and was mildly popular. Pokemon Digimon, Gundam Wing merchandise are all over the place...obviously someone wants this stuff if its being produced.

And Finally...

If Disney is so afraid to release this stuff in the US, why arent other studios bringing stuff over to compete against Disney? I realize Studio Ghibli is linked to Disney...but what about other stuff? Sony...what about you guys?

I just read on another post that Sony is releasing the Cowboy Bebop movie in the U.S. this January. This past year I think there were some showings of Spriggan around the country but I'm not sure who distributed that ( there wasn't a showing near me I know that much).

Anime does have a foothold. But I think alot of the "suits" at these studios in the U.S. might still consider it a niche market or a "trend". I still think that part of the problem is that in America, as Todd MacFarlane said, there is Disney at the top and "saturday morning" at the bottom and no "in-between". The public also still sees animation as "cartoons" which are only supposed to be "funny". Titan A.E. was a nice attempt to bring an anime style adventure made by an American studio to the screen but in the end it looked too "cartooney". I didn't see Final Fantasy but from what I've heard it just didn't have a strong enough story. I'm going to have to see it so I won't pass judgement on it here.

Support for the "anime-zation" of America has come forward in the form of film critic Roger Ebert. Roger has reviewed quite a number of anime films in the past few years and has often named them to his years top 10 lists. He once said of Princess Mononoke, "this is the best film you are going to see all year bar none!" But with all his accolades trying to find anime at your local multiplex is still a daunting task.

Which brings us back to my previous point. Animation in the United States is ready to turn the corner (by that I mean cross over from merely childrens fare to becoming a serious artistic medium). It's just a question of what will it take to bring it there. For all their "support" it doesn't seem like Disney is going to be that vehicle. The next most likely candidate might be Sony. If Cowboy Bebop:Knocking On Heaven's Door is a success this will surely open the door for more films to filter over to these shore. In terms of "success" I think it's unrealistic to think that this film will pull in over $200 million at the box office. I think "successful" would for this film would have to be in the $40-$50 million range. The thing is that Sony money and resources to be able to promote this film correctly. The only other studios I can see making a run at any kind of animated feature at the moment are Dreamworks or 20th Century Fox. Fox, like I said before, because if Lucas ever decided to make a Star Wars animated film, it would most likely be tied to them.

:whofart:

Am I the only one who thinks disney is being treated unfairly here? Did they do a perfect job distributing Spirited Away? No. Did they do a vastly better job than they did on Mononoke? Yes.

Mononoke:
Released dubbed only.
Released only in arthouses.
Was in and out of theaters in 3 weeks.

Spirited Away:
Released in dubbed and subtitled versions.
Released in DLP digital projection.
Released in Art Houses and first run Multiplexes.
Came out 6 weeks ago and is still hanging around.

Disney has not only done a much better job than last time, they've given Spirited Away the biggest release a foriegn animated film has ever recieved. Complianing because they aren't hyping it as big as Santa Claus 2 is a waste of time.

I do tend to like the other US studios giving us animated films like Titan AE, Iron Giant, Prince of Egypt, etc... The Mouse makes good movies too, but even though they are geared towards kids, they are still adult in theme for the most part. My mom has not liked many Disney movies since Hunchback, she says that she would never let a child watch that movie. Even in Tarzan they kind of show a rather brutal death. That is why I like Disney animation, they know how to put that kind of stuff into the movie, but still have it be a 'family' film. If Disney is going to stick with the Anime distribution in the US, then they need to stick to the stuff specifically geared towards children. I was actually surprised that kids were reacting the way that they were in Spirited Away, and I wouldn't have hesitated to take a child to see it at all. I guess emotional response is what the creators wnat from a movie, and this one did provide that, at least from the children.

-CM-

Actually, I saw Mononoke in an Edwards 22 screen theater. True, it was only there for 1 week, but it was there.

Oh, and I do agree with you in the point you are making. Disney did do a much better job on Spirited Away than they did on Mononoke.

-CM-

a good way to for sony to market the cowboy bebop movie is by mentioning many times about the fact that it is based on the popular adult swim show and then i would think that many would come to see it.

btw off topic but is there a reason that the powerpuff girls movie tanked. many theatres had it, got lots of marketing and the ppg is very popular. why so low in terms of boxoffic take?

:up: :up:

I totally agree. they presented it in DLP with original language. how much better can they get? Disney gets my :up: for this action. Lets see exactly how many theaters sony releases CB with original language subs.

Its got nothing to do with the fact that Santa Claus 2 is getting more hype...its more of the fact of "where is it?"

If its getting good reviews why hasnt this movie been relelased for more people to see it? This movie has been out for almost 2 months and it has yet to see a wider release.

My main complaint is that Disney isnt trying hard enough to get the most money out of this movie.

Why must someone like myself travel 3 hours to Chicago just so i can get a chance to see this movie when there are 2 perfectly good 16 theater multi-plexes here in town that could show this movie?

As big as you think anime is, it hasn't fully taken america by storm. Intill it does you can expect this of any movie in a "fan based" system. Why do you have to drive 3 hours to watch a movie? because you want to see it. I wouldn't want spirited away to get mixed in with the megaplex titles. It's bad enough those megaplex theaters lack in a lot of qualities (there is some great megaplex's but in general, megaplex's are suckkekeke)give me a local art house any day. :)

as for disney. I guess you didn't jump to Ifilm a month or so back. before every little film clip that they showed they had the Spirited away trailer kicking in and selling it to the RIGHT demograph. folks who enjoy films. Then they did show ad's on tv. Just because you live a bit out of the ways doesn't mean disney has to cover all the area.

How large of a market will Cowboy bebop reach? Honestly. do you think that Sony will really massivly release cowboy bebop to every theater? Highly doubt it. Hell from the get go sony says it will open in L.A. and N.Y and then work it's way up. chances are it wont be at your local megaplex but rather in a small indy theater.

Columbia (Sony) did release "Osamu Tezuka's Metropolis", let's hope they can release more feature length anime films to the US.

Now you want to talk about support. How much support did Metroplois get on the big screen? I saw it at an arthouse. Never heard any word of it as hitting "megaplex" type of venues.

Vampire Hunter D began a bit of a run but again, I saw it at a art house type of theater and never saw it really picking up any steam there into any sort of megaplex theater again.

Akira, a very deeply grounded anime which has had years to get a foundation also had very limited re-release when it hit theaters. I saw it at a AMC in DLP, but it wasn't at a local megaplex. This was a pretty small theater (great seats and great sound, but still a small theater in the sense of number of screens)

The basics is that ANIME does not have a foothold.. well that to say that pretty much adult themed anime doesn't have a foothold as of yet. You see pokemon, digimon, gundam wing, dragon ball Z, etc. all over the place but think for a second what kind of target audiance does that get? Someone wants the stuff.. Yes, but that someone is a very small market. And considering how bad Pokemon 4 looks, I don't think that going through the kids shows is a good way to open up the market.

Cowboy bebop has had a large success through Adult swim, but that is still another small audiance group. Think about it, it's a cable station, it's on late. Sure it picks up steam but it doesn't warrent for a full out promotion.

Disney did right with spirited away and they are getting better with releasing anime here in the states.

I'm not going to drive that far to go see it. I shouldnt have to drive out of my way to see a movie that, at the very least, could be playing in the arthouse theaters here.

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I wouldn't want spirited away to get mixed in with the megaplex titles. It's bad enough those megaplex theaters lack in a lot of qualities (there is some great megaplex's but in general, megaplex's are suckkekeke)give me a local art house any day. :)

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It more than likely won't appear in those theaters here either. I figure it had a better chance to make money at the Megaplexes....because there is almost always some type of "re-run" theater stuff going on here.

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Just because you live a bit out of the ways doesn't mean disney has to cover all the area.

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No, but that shouldnt stop disney from trying to get the most money out of this movie either. My gripe has less to do with wanting to see this movie and more to do with "If this movie is getting rave reviews, why isnt Disney allowing more people to see why this movie is getting such praise?

Well to compare these other anime movies to Studio Ghibli is a bit misleeding. The Miyazaki films made more money in japan than Titanic and the prevoius record holder Princess Mononoke. It is hubris to think that the american audience won't embrace the best reviewed film of the year, Spirited Away. I think Disney is suppressing this film to prevent Miya

Sorry computer error. As I was saying:I think Disney is suppressing this film to prevent Miyazaki and Studio Ghibli from building a fan base. Also the 1996 Ghibli contract with Disney is hardly the ten year exclusive contract Disney has with Pixar. Pixar is a virtual subdiary of Disney.

So it's a conspiracy by di"$"ney to keep down DA man? -rolleyes-

yes, because disney has no wises to gain any ability in pretty much opening the flood gates to anime to american adult audiance... -rolleyes-

If they wanted to supress Miyazaki and Ghibli from getting a fan base, then they wouldn't have released it at all. I am sorry for those people that don't have a close by theater to see Spirited Away at, but be glad that it got released at all. There have been plenty of anime titles that I have not gotten to see in theaters; X, Metropolis, Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, etc... Most of these I didn't see because by the time I found they had come out, it was too late. I am really looking forward to any future Ghibli/Miyazaki films coming out by Disney in the US. I will just do the homework and try to find it in the original language.

-CM-

C-mart has it right, there is Sooooooo many anime titles that never even get the chance here in the states. If they do, they get hacked up to hell. Compare the treatment Disney did to spirited away compared to the treatment Card Captor Sakura got on U.S. tv. a hack job and a half. Disney gets my :up: for there efforts. I guess it's just the typical disney bashing that some will never give disney a chance no matter how good they do something.

As good as the limited job is that Mouse House has done for Miyazaki-san's film, I still have to use the word timid to describe their distribution.

This movie, particularly the dubbed version, could have "played in Peoria" just fine with the right ads and promotions. I am sick and tired of major studios being alternately abusive and chicken-hearted with what they think the public wants.

Anyway, at least it got a healthy audience for the venues it did play, and on DVD it will reach many more people.

Here’s a conversation I had (sort of) with the Arts Critic from the San Francisco Chronicle:


Thanks so much for writing. I appreciate your nuanced views. Best, SW

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 1:28 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Regarding Spirited Away


Dear Mr. Winn,

Thank you for giving this week’s center stage to my favorite form of
expression. Having been (and still being) a fanatic of Hayao Miyaziki’s
work, I took exception to your comment that the second and third act of
“Spirited Away” “…traffics too long and heavily in allegorical monsters…”.
Of all of his works that I have seen, this one trafficked in Japanese
spiritual lore most heavily to the risk of being difficulty translated to a
Western audience. It was an artistic over materialistic decision on the part
of the director. On that note: giving credit to Kirk Wise for directing the
American version also gave me pause. This guy merely supervised the
demographically pre-approved, star material voice actors for the alpha
numerically challenged film going audiences out here.

Not to nitpick, but even putting this work into the same four columns as
“Lilo & Stitch” is akin to comparing “Little Nemo” with “Garfield”.

Let me ask this stupid question...Who was doing the "great" job of releasing anime and Miyazaki's other films in the U.S. BEFORE Disney. (answer, No one)

Face the facts, if there was a market for it (Trust me, people show up, if the word of mouth is good), Disney would release it wider (and release more of them). They are about making money, and if anime/adult animation took off, Disney would be all over it, under Touchstone or whatever. Anything that would drive a greater demand for animation would benefit Disney.

I'm sick of everyone bashing Disney and Lucas. If you don't like them, don't go to their movies and buy their products.

Who was doing a good job of releasing any kind of animation whatsoever in North America other than Disney?

We've seen what's happened to Don Bluth's studio - animation just doesn't sell here because Di$ney, through years of saturation and manipulation, has become the only "name" in animation (at least, barring Saturday morning cartoons).

Are we supposed to bow down to the Mouse just because we've see a couple of Miyazaki titles released here?

Then explain how and why Di$ney tossed Princess Mononoke to Miramax to bungle. Explain why a film that destroyed box office records in Japan, that is critically acclaimed universally has been given very little in terms of marketing or spreading the word out. A limited release that is only slightly better than their handling of the previous Ghibli title.

Disney never intended to make a killing in the box office when they signed a deal with Ghibli Studios. They merely wanted the power to control and contain the anime niche market. Don't for once think that there isn't a suit collective carefully calculating and strategizing. Conspiracy theorist? I prefer to call it conspiracy realist.

The term "anime" as if it were a genre in and of itself is ridiculous. Miyazaki's titles are miles apart from fare such as Vampire Hunter D, Cowboy Bebop or even Metropolis. To say that anime can't succeed or cannot reach a large market in North America is making the blanket statement that all forms of Japanese animation are essentially geared towards a singular, cult audience. I would rather not perpetuate this myth - but rather, I would like to hear more bitching, moaning and complaining that company's such as Uncle Walt's are suppressing more than liberating.

Let's face it. Hollywood and the American film industry has always been xenophobic and sometimes even hostile towards foreign film. It's just unfortunate that this mentality persists in animation as much as any other style of filmmaking.

Personally, I'm sick of people defending Di$ney. A company that has effectively destroyed innovation and original thought for decades. Ugh... I could go on for days about this subject (I've posted here about the Big D before). Hell, the company's "classics" are either ripped off from fairy tales, books or are completely derivative of Japanese animation titles. Gotta love it! That being said...

I do like some Disney films - I plan on seeing Treasure Planet (yes, another "original") when it hits the theatres, but that doesn't mean I can't complain about (what I believe is) their agenda.

As for Lucas - he may have lost some credibility, but I respect him for braving the over-critical masses.

End rant.

-matt

Blame fox kids, blame NBC, hell blame school house rocks!, Blame whoever the hell you want. As an american I can say that regardless if animation is targeted to childern, I still watch it. I love anime and frankly I'm the minority who feels that cartoons are for adults aswell REGARDLESS if disney and every other studio that handles animation has "brainwashed" the public. To me, thats an easy way out of this. Just face the facts, America sucks when it comes to accepting different ideas. sure we enbrace them and welcome them and hell, give them a mic to speak to the crowds but you have to admit no one follows it and actually accepts change. So can you really blame a corporation if the masses decide thats what they want and not try to find a different perspective of it?




No, but atleast give them credit for trying. you folks just like to bash it so you have something to bash.



I'm sorry, blockbusters in other countries seldomly are blockbusters in other countries for several reasons. This is not a movie I can see shattering records here for the simple reasons. And no, it's not because disney brain washed us all.. I can show you dozens who can actually think for themselves.



-rolleyes- This is why THE NIGHTMARE BEFORE CHRISTMAS was dumped in a TOUCHSTONE release right? because disney wanted to subpress the stop motion animation right? They dump them in there other distribution companies as a safety net. Spirited away is not a "family" film so to say what disney wants a "disney" titled movie to be seen as. It's targeted to both young and old, but disney hopes it's market is more older. I highly doubt disney wants to spend some money and release a movie in a good way (DLP, Subbed and dubbed) to Suppress it.


Your opionon on the matter that Spirited away is better then the movies you mentioned is exactly that. YOUR OPIONON. who is to say those films wouldn't have done better here in the states if given a masses release?


It's not just about defending, I have my grips with disney myself but the way I see it, They did a good job for what it's worth on spirited away and all the folks can do is bash them because they are disney. I'm one to give credit when credit is due in hopes that by me clapping for them shows that they did a good job and in turn helps them do good on future releases.

I guess that explains why so many foreign films have been nominated for best picture and various other Oscars in the last few years here in the US huh. The foreign film market may not be huge, but successful foreign releases like Crouching Tiger, Brotherhood of the Wolf, and Amelie are bringing it more and more mainstream every year.

As for Disney having nothing original, well, for the most part there is no such thing as an original movie, plotwise anyway. Most movies these days, foreign, anime, Disney, or otherwise are adapted from books, are remakes of old movies, or are taken from fairy tales, stories, etc... So, it isn't a bad thing, though I do like many of the myriad of other versions of Cinerella that can be found in literature much more than Disney's version.

They are leading the market in animated features, but out of all the Disney stuff there is, many of my favorites are from other studios like Iron Giant, Prince of Egypt, and Shrek.

Anyway, every year more and more foreign titles are making their way into the American market, and I am sure that in a few years we will see anime in the mega-plexes every week.

-CM-