It's not you. The movie doesn't make any sense.

I liked the film. What I got from it was that there was a hick up in the space time whatever. Resulting in that Franks voice drew him away from ending up dead. This kicked off events that weren't suppose to happen. Living a life that was suppose to be different since by all accounts donnie should be dead. If the time isn't corrected by the count down the world ends. When the series of events, one worse then the other comes to a crash donnie finally realizes this and using the jet engine as a vessal goes back (?) and accepts that he has to die in order for things to go differently.

Well atleast that's what I got out of it. Tons of loop holes? Oh yeah, but I'm sure you can get loop holes out of any time travel piece. Enjoyed the flick regardless. a good rewatch if you ask me.

Actually, as far as I can tell, the film is fatally flawed from a cause and effect standpoint.

Frank led Donny away from being killed by an aircraft engine from the future.
And THIS is what CAUSED the temporal anomaly, and created the Adjunct Universe, which built up to the storms which caused the plane's engine to fall off and go into the past and kill Donny.

If Frank hadn't led Donny away, the Adjunct Universe wouldn't have been created.
But then why did the plane (engine) crash, if not for the storms created by the Rift coming to a close?

So the question is:
What created the Adjunct Universe in the first place?

You blew my mind.. my mind is blown.. cause or effect? ;)

Yeah, these points were brought up and I believe you need to go through the supplmental stuff to get some more comments about it all which helps it a little. But yeah, you come to the flaw that reapersaurus points out. if frank hadn't led him away, the world wouldn't have been created.. so why did frank lead him away?

This is one of my favorites, but I think it starts to break down under intense scrutiny. The movie works just as well if you assume Donnie dreamed most of the movie in the split second before his death.

Let's face it, the movie was good because the music kicked ass.

Atomic decay my friend....cause and effect is a farse. Decartes was wrong...The apocalype is coming...

Serouisly, if there was a "hiccup" in time, then the idea of cause and effect don't really matter. It creates this circle where noting could have happened without it's "effect" also being its cause. Hence the hiccup. If it were temporally linear, then we don't have a movie, since the point is a non-linear series of events.

What does kvrdave have to do with anything? ;)

:lol::up:

indeed.

Ok, here's what happened for those that say "it doesn't make any sense"...

The jet engine from the future gets sucked into a timehole in the sky (that blackhole that is shown at the end of the movie), which triggers a parallel universe that only lasts for 28 days and then it collapses on itself killing everyone inside.

Frank was sent from the future as a guide to make sure the jet engine gets sent back into the primary universe( where it came from). Frank manipulates Donnie into situations so that he has no choice but to send the engine back through the timehole.

Btw, every situation Donnie goes through serves purpose, you just have to look closely and pay attention.

It's been awhile since I've seen it. Frank's dead right? How was he sent from the future?

I took the discussions in the therapist's office about god as an explanation for the whole movie. It was god's intention for the time loop and he designated Donnie to be the one to close it. Frank was his messanger. I took it that the entire point of the movie was for everyone to reflect over the sins they had commited or were going to. The end sequence showing everyone waking from the same "dream" changed each character for the better. Then again I could be completely going off on a tangent but who knows besides Mr. Kelley

BTW, here is an old discussion on the film.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...o&pagenumber=1

I agree with all of those who criticized the film for needing an external "book' in order to properly understand the film.

I don't think you're correct, but then again that's the beauty of films like that - it's open to interpretations so you might be right.

All the characters wake up on Oct 1 with some recollections of what happened to them in the parallel universe (or tangent universe) which lasted for 28 days - they've been saved by Donnie.

This is why you see Frank covering his eye, cuz he remembers something about that occurence.

You are imagining things.....

Nope, here's the complete "The Philosophy of Time Travel" book
from Donnie Darko website:

The Philosophy Of Time Travel \ Roberta Sparrow

Forward

I would like to thank the sisters of the saint john chapter in alexandria, virginia in theire support in my decision.

By the grace of god, they are:

Sister eleanor lewis
Sister franscesca godani
Sister helen davis
Sister cathrine arnold
Sister mary lee pond
Sister virginia wessex

This intent of this short book is for it to be used as a simple and direct guide at times of danger.

I pray that this is merely the work of fiction.

If it is not, then I pray for you, the reader of this book.

If I am still alive when the events foretold in these pages occure, then I hope that you will find me before it is too late.

Roberta Ann Sparrow
October 1944

The Tangent Universe

The primary universe is fraught with great peril, war, plague, famine and natural disaster are common.
Death comes to us all.

The fourth dimension of time is a stable construct. Though it is not impenatrable.

Incidents when the fourth dimension corrupts are incredibly rare.

If a tangent univers occures, it will be highly unstable, sustaining itself for no longer then several weeks.

Eventually it will collapse upon itself, forming a black hole within the primary universe capable of destroying all existence.

Water And Metal

Water and metal are the key elements of time travel.

Water is the herrier element for the construction of time portals used as gateways between universes at tangent vortex.

Metal is the transitonal element for the construction of artifact vessels.

The Artifact And The Living

When the tangent universe occurs, those living nearest to the vortex will find themselves at the epicenter of a dangerous new world.

Artifacts provide the first sign the a tangent universe has occurred.

If an artifact occurs, the living will retrieve it with great intrest and curiosity. Artifacts are formed from metal. Such as an arrowhead from an ancient Mayan civilization, or a metal sword from medievel europe.

Artifacts returned to the primary universe are often linked to religeos iconography, as theire appearance on earth seems to defy logical explanation.

Divine intervention is deemed the only logical conclusion for the appearance of the artifact.

The Living Reciever

The living reciever is chosen to guide the artifact into position for it’s journey back to the primary universe.

No one knows how or why a reciever will be chosen.

The living reciever is often blessed with a fourth dimensional powers. These include increased strength, telekanisis, mind control, and the ability to conjure water and fire.

The living reciever is often tormented by terrifying dreams, visions and auditory hallucinations during his time within the tangent universe.

Those surrounding the living receiver known as the manipulated, will fear him and try to destroy him.

The Manipulated Living

The manipulated living are often the close friends and neighbours of the living reciever.

They are prone to irrational, bizzare and often violant behaviour. This is the unfortunate result of thiere task, which is to assist the living reciever in returning the artifact to the primary universe.

The manipulated living will do anything to save themselves from oblivion.

The Manipulated Dead

The manipulated dead are more powerful then the living reciever. If a person dies within the tangent dimension, they are able to contact the living reciever thourgh the fourth dimensional construct.

The fourth dimensional construct is made of water.

The manipulated dead will manipulate the living reciever using the fourth dimensional construct.

The manipulated dead will often set an ensurance trap for the living reciever to ensure that the artifact is returned saftely to the primary universe.

If the ensurance trap is succesful, the living reciever is left with no choise but to use his fourh dimensional powers to send the artifact back in time into the primary universe before the black hole collapses upon itself.

Dreams

When the manipulated awaken from theire journey into the tangent universe, they are often hunted by the experience in theire dreams.

Many of them will not remember.

Those who do remember the journey are often overcome with profound remorse for the regretful actions burried within theire dreams. The only phisycal evidence is burried within the artifact itself, all that remains from the lost world.

Ancient myth tells us of the mayan warrior killed by an arrowhead that head fallen from a cliff, where there was no army, no enemy to be found.

We are told of the medievel knight mysteriously impaled by the sword he had not yet built.

We are told that these things occure for a reason.

Primary universe = the real universe

Tangent universe = parallel universe that lasts for 28 days

The Artifact = the jet engine

The Living Receiver = Donnie

Manipulated Dead = Frank and Gretchen.

I like to think it's because Donnie was a chronic sleepwalker and was out of his bed in the first place, creating the tangent universe. Frank and Gretchen, as the Manipulated Dead, have the fourth dimensional time travel power to go back to that point and influence Donnie so that he accepts the fate of his own life ending, but saving the universe.

But then, this movie is so open to interpretation and that's what gives it its cult-movie popularity.

"If the ensurance trap is succesful, the living reciever is left with no choise but to use his fourh dimensional powers to send the artifact back in time into the primary universe before the black hole collapses upon itself."

Donnie is the one with fourth dimensional powers, because he's the Living Receiver, not the Manupulated Dead...

"The manipulated dead are more powerful than the living receiver. If a person dies within the tangent dimension, they are able to contact the living receiver through the fourth dimensional construct."

Sounds to me like the Manipulated Dead have the ability to travel in time within the tangent universe, at least to contact the Living Receiver.

*shrug* Again, open to interpretation.

"The manipulated dead are more powerful than the living receiver. If a person dies within the tangent dimension, they are able to contact the living receiver through the fourth dimensional construct."

Frank, the manupulated dead, contacts Donnie through visions, cuz no one can see Frank but Donnie (this is what they mean probably by "the fourth dimensional construct").

But the manupulated dead themselves do not travel in time...

So what caused the black hole in the first place, that caused the plane to lose its engine?

You see how it's a Catch-22?

At some point, you have to just handwave something as big as a BLACK HOLE FORMING WITH NO CAUSE.

In other words, the Tangent Universe wouldn't have been created had Donny not left the bed (which he only did because a Manipulated Dead guy, Frank, got him out. BTW: how could a Manipulated Dead guy therefore CAUSE the Tangent Universe to form? Until it exists, there is no Manipulated Dead to cause it to form).
Further, for the Tangent Universe to exist, the engine had to go back in time. But the engine falling off was caused by the Black Hole, which shouldn't have existed until the Tangent Universe was created.

Catch 22.

I have more questions after that, if you'd like to field more.

I really dug the movie, and think it's great, but it's really fatally flawed.

No, Frank did not create the tangent universe, that's defies his whole purpose in saving Donnie. The tangent universe begins when we're shown the clock, when it strikes midnight.
In the movie Donnie mentions that the wormholes can appear out of nowhere - my theory is that the wormholes appearances are very RARE, but in this case the wormhole did appear in the sky.

ALSO, the engine falling was caused by the WORMHOLE - sort of a timehole, not the BLACKHOLE which is supposed to destroy the primary as well as the tangent universe if the artifact is not returned to where it came from.

BUT, I'm not 100% sure whether the engine falling happened because it was sucked into the wormhole or just it was caused by an accident and the jet engine simply passed through the wormhole on its way down.

I don't think the movie is fatally flawed, though. Not everything has be explained, some things should be just left for the viewer...

I saw it again last night. I really like the movie but it still keeps me guessing. I dunno what the signifigance with the fat guy in the red suit is. I noticed that the psychiatrist sort of explains what's going on in her last scene with Donnie, but it's not something I noticed before. She tells him if the skies open up everything will end, blah blah. Why would she say that? It doesn't seem like something she'd know about...

I kinda get the idea that Frank (the bunny suit one not the real one) was evil, trying to make Donnie keep going along with the alternate future to bring about the end of the world. Frank kept leading Donnie to every clue he needed to make it happen, and it wasn't till the very end that donnie realized it, went back in time (no idea how) to right before the engine hits. So we see him laughing because he's happy/surprised that it actually worked, and he knows everything is gonna be better in the end for everyone.

Or am I just way off?

Frank cannot be evil, cuz he's the one that actually saved Donnie from getting crushed by the jet engine and actually saving all those people from the end of the world.

"Why you made me flood the school?" - Donnie
"They're in great danger" - Frank

Fat guy in red suit is from FAA or whatever the airline investigating company is called assigned to follow Donnie, probably because he was a suspect in their view...