evenflow

Dances with Wolves over Goodfellas. It's worst than Rocky over the other 1976 contenders because Rocky is at the very least a very good movie. Dances with Wolves just sucks.

conscience

I am going ahead and picking movies that won, that were worse than the four other films nominated.

Shakespeare in Love - Not as good as the other four nominees.

Titanic

Dances with Wolves

Driving Miss Daisy

Out of Africa

Gandhi - excellent film, but not as good as the four others.

Chariots of Fire

Rocky - I agree.

A Man for All Seasons

I will not go before 1966 nods...as I have only seen the five nominees for best picture in 1966 - present.

I still have to see a lot of the older lesser known best picture nods. I have seen all of the Best Picture winners, though.

JesseCuster

I think Out of Africa is the closest thing to an average film that the Academy has awarded the big prize to in the last quarter century or so. It's just not that great a film, though '86 was a bit of a weak year for movies. At least among the nominees.

Dances with Wolves is a definite head-scratcher in view of some of the other movies from that year.

Huge Bean

And what was so bad about the movie?

Brian Shannon

Titanic and Forrest Gump

Sunday Morning

These films:

2000 gladiator
1999 american beauty
1998 shakespeare in love
1997 titanic
1996 the english patient
1995 braveheart
1994 forrest gump
1990 dances with wolves
1989 driving miss daisy
1988 rain man
1987 the last emperor
1985 out of africa
1982 ghandi
1981 chariots of fire
1980 ordinary people
1979 kramer vs. kramer
1976 rocky
1973 the sting
1968 oliver!
1966 man for all seasons
1965 sound of music
1964 my fair lady
1962 lawrence of arabia
1958 gigi
1957 bridge on the river kwai
1956 around the world in 80 days
1955 marty
1954 on the waterfront
1952 the greastest show on earth
1951 an american in paris
1949 all the king's men
1944 going my way
1941 how green was my valley
1938 you can't take it with you
1937 life of emile zola
1936 great ziegfeld
1933 calvacade
1932 grand hotel
1931 cimarron
1929 broadway melody

Worst call, ever: driving miss daisy ('89 sucked for film, yes...but c'mon!)

My personal pick for worst film out of the list: sound of music <gag>

msharkm

I will 2nd (or 3rd or 15th) votes for Dancing with Wolves and Titanic.

But I want to throw another into the mix: Silence of the Lambs

Explanation: It won mostly due to the politics of the system. Foster and Hopkins
were (deservedly) going to win the Acting awards and the voters just started marking
everthing with SOTL. While entertaining, the movie was basically a feminist/lesbian recruitment film. The final scene is pretty laughable. Anyone who knows anything about guns knows that if you're using a revolver and you're in a combat situation you are going to have it cocked immediately.

Won't be watching the show again this year: another poor year for films. LOTR is
the only good movie and it really isn't that good.

PS - Rocky was a great movie - get past the fact that Stallone made many
horrendous movies and take a look at the movie. It's a movie about having
dreams and achieving them.

Bonkie

Well, golly gee willikers! When you put it that way, I see your point! Movies about having dreams and achieving them are ALWAYS good!

Supermallet

My first vote would be for Ordinary People, how could it possibly beat The Elephant Man and Raging Bull (and how could The Stunt Man not even be nominated for best picture)? After that I'd point to Forrest Gump beating Pulp Fiction, and I would also say Rocky was undeserving. Not because it was a bad movie, but simply because it pales in comparison to Taxi Driver and Network. Using that logic, I would also say Platoon was undeserving because Blue Velvet should have won, even though it wasn't nominated, and same goes for whatever wins this year, because Mulholland Drive wasn't nominated

Bonkie

Hey guys, here's a movie that SHOULD have won Best Picture! It's about having dreams and achieving them!

das Monkey

Talk about oversimplification.

das

Bonkie

Don't blame ME. "It's a movie about having dreams and achieving them" was all I was given to work with as a possible reason why Rocky is great.

Patman

Unforgiven and The English Patient.

FiveO

Shakespeare in Love...what a bunch of

Big Quasimodo

OK, I am answering the question from the perspective of worst movie to win, not greatest travesty perpetuated on some more deserving film.

I say: Shakespeare in Love and The Greatest Show on Earth .

And may I commend you all on not picking on my Marty and it's leading man, Ernest Borgnine. One of my all time favorites.

Josh H

Titanic by a long shot. L.A. Confidential should have won. Pulp Fiction should have won of Forrest Gump, but at least Gump is a decent film. Titanic flat out sucks IMO. Shakespeare in Love gets brought up a lot, but I think it won deservingly. I hated Saving Private Ryan. I like The Thin Red Line, but it's not quite best picture material IMO.

Scot1458

Ghandi

There is so much fiction in this movie, they should have changed the name.

Politics, pure and simple.

randy1320

I noticed a couple people said Chariots of Fire for 1981. I think so too. I'm curious: which movie would you have picked instead. I would say Raiders of the Losk Ark. Am I alone?

belosh

definitely forrest gump for 2 reasons.

1. it was ok, but not great.

2. hello??!!! Shawshank Redemption!

ctyankee

Bonkie, Bonkie, Bonkie … harsh words about Rocky.

My view of Rocky is (no surprise) different. When we talk about movies in the context of their greatness compared to others – hopefully it can be done without dragging the other movies through the mud. It also needs to be looked at (at least) two factors (1) how good was the movie – when the voting took place (2) how good is the movie now. To give attention to the latter is important, as we are holding this conversation in 2002 with 2002 sensibilities.

Then.

Rocky, a low-budget movie was awarded 9 (Nine) nominations in a year with major competition and walked away with Best Picture and Best Director and Best Editing Oscars for a movie/cast not Hollywood Golden boys. That says a lot. It also was the Golden Globes Award Winner for that year meaning that it resonated with the foreign writers too. Nominated for Best Sound and Best Score, Screenplay, Best Actor, Best Supporting Actors (Young and Meredith) and Best Actress. It could also be mentioned that in today’s world Shire would have been a Supporting Actress nomination and would have likely won. At the time, Finch winning the Oscar over DeNiro was a longer shot but Finch died two months before the Oscars thus garnering the sympathy vote. Taxi Driver was shut out of all Globe and Oscar winning awards.

Where some see Rocky as a simplified “zero to hero” movie where a “white hope” gets the Cinderella chance and changes his life – I see it as a movie about relationships. I think this is a great ensemble cast including terrific performances by Shire, Stallone, Young, Meredith (both nominated for best supporting actor) and Carl Weathers - all in strong supporting roles that most actors would die for.

Such a great screenplay. Rocky, someone with physical talent who never applied them. Micky – an old man who is frustrated by having the answers but not reaping the rewards. Paulie – a bitter man who is unhappy with his station in life. Adrian - a shy, smart girl without prospects. All are impacted when Apollo Creed needs a chump for another boxing payday. Scenes that are memorable include Rocky going over to Paulie’s house on Thanksgiving night. The often-imitated scene at the ice-rink, Rocky at the pet store, the scenes with the gangster and his driver. Paulie and Rocky at the meat-packing plant. The scene back at Rocky’s apartment with a nervous Andrian. The scene where a once proud old man goes to visit Rocky for a job as his manager. The opening scene where we see what the reality of Rocky’s fight life is like. Rocky finding out that his locker has been given away and he is given a bag to hand up and confronts Micky. This doesn’t even list the more famous scenes such as the 15 round fight, climbing the steps by the statue scene, etc. The ending is wonderful. This is more than a fight movie. There are only two fight scenes in it. And to the credit of the screenplay we do not get the Hollywood ending where the “white hope” wins. He loses and by going the distance gains a measure of respect and of salvation.

Now.

How does this movie play in 2002? Philadelphia still has neighborhoods like Rocky’s and leather coats and winter jackets haven’t really changed much (not that fashion is critical to the story). Boxing is still a dirty, smelly bottom-feeder business and so I think the movie still resonates. Taxi Driver looks dated. Cars, clothing, hair styles all look dated and distract from the message. Also, some scenes and scenarios are implausible today. A 12-year-old girl can dress like a prostitute but if were really one – they would have 15 organizations elbowing each other to save her. Shock a date by taking her to a porno movie at a theatre in Times Square? You could see a Disney feature on 42nd Street but forget anything above an R rating these days. Besides, with the Internet and video sales I think that 20+ women are pretty savvy about what is out there and probably saw one when they were 15. Point? Movies lose their message if the story seems implausible or (at best) distracts from the movie. Network? Taxi Driver is at least somewhat viable. In 2002, who cares about network television? In this day of HBO, CNN and 200+ choices (not to mention the Internet) the premise is lost. The other major factor that network’s will do anything to be successful. Yeah, so? Admittedly, some of the dialog and acting is so good that this movie is still watchable.

Music/Score. Bill Conti’s score for Rocky is very good. This is not a one hit score. Besides, Rocky’s Theme (Gonna Fly Now) the Going the Distance track is even better. It works well in 2002 as it is a fairly contemporary scoring with traditional instruments and orchestra. Taxi Driver was not one of the great Bernard Herrmann’s best works. This was the last score he wrote before he died and way past his fantastic prime. His nomination is probably due to his death as well as being passed up so many times (including Vertigo, Psycho, and North By Northwest, Ghost and Mrs. Muir etc.). Music is very dated and most cuts are just reworks of the title track. As I’m listening to the music right now it sounds a bit “lido lounge trio in Los Vegas” like versus strong instrumentation. Perhaps that was the point, at the time but it seems dated. Network? You can’t find any reference that the music score was ever even published.

Acting. DeNiro’s performance in Taxi Driver is amazing. I think it fair to say that he carried the movie with support from Sheppard and Jodie Foster. Network was a strong ensemble cast. Finch’s performance seems over the top and to my mind brought the movie down, not up. Rocky’s cast was also an ensemble effort that worked well. Overall, the acting in all three films is quite good.

Screenplay. All three movies are excellent. My nod would be to Network in this category due to the excellent writing/dialogue from Paddy Chayefsky. As far as Rocky being an "awful" script, first awful scripts do not get nominated for Academy Awards. Secondly, I submit the following portion of the script:

Setup: After Paulie throws the turkey out of the window … Adrian runs crying to her bedroom … after Rocky’s first attempt to talk to her (though the door) he tries again.

ROCKY
Ah, Adrian, I know ya ain't too happy at this moment, but would ya do me a favor – I ain't got nobody to spend Thanksgivin' with -- How 'bout you an' me goin' out – Get somethin' to eat, maybe laugh a little, who knows... Would ya like, I dunno, go out together?

Adrian opens the door... She already has her winter coat on.


ROCKY
(continuing)
We'll have a good time.

Paulie opens the front door and gives Rocky an encouraging smile...

ROCKY
(continuing)
What's ya sister like to do?

PAULIE
Ice skate.

ROCKY
I didn't want no turkey anyway.

ADRIAN
It's Thanksgiving.

ROCKY
To you, to me it's Thursday.

das Monkey

Thanks I didn't have the energy to explain it, but I'm glad someone else did.

When I tell people Rocky isn't about boxing, I get the same look as when I say Star Wars isn't science fiction. People always remember so many scenes from that film, but nothing hits me as strongly as the final shot with Adrian trying to get to Rocky in the ring and him looking for her, and them announcing Apollo won the fight, and Rocky doesn't really hear it and doesn't really care. That is one of the great scenes in American cinema, and it boggles my mind how people oversimplify something I would dare call a masterpiece.

Btw, while the score is simply amazing, I find myself enjoying the score to II even more.

das

Bonkie

Not really. Isn't the whole point of this thread about how ignorant the Academy is?

That's nice. A lot of movies are about relationships.


Your opinion. I think they suck.


Quite a clichéd bunch, aren't they? Even 25 years ago.


A laundry list of scenes, without any justification for calling them great. I could do the same thing for "P.C.U." The scene where they make fun of the hippies. The scene where they make fun of the lesbians. The scene where they make fun of blacks.

Another unsupported statement of opinion.


That's fine. I never said it was just a fight movie, or even a fight movie at all.

There are lots of movies without Hollywood endings. Like, um... Taxi Driver and Network.


I don't think either film is especially locked into a particular time period. You're the first person I've ever seen complain about Taxi Driver being dated.

This is an irrelevant point, but I thought it funny enough to highlight. You don't think there are 12-year-old prostitutes running around today? I think the scenario in T.D. is perhaps even more plausible in modern times.


Yes, I don't think anyone really lauds Network as a great movie because of its mind-blowing message. It's the script and the performances.

Opinion again. I'll take Herrmann's T.D. score over Conti's obnoxious Rocky score any day.


Except that the acting in Rocky sucks. IMO.

Are you joking?

That's a script, all right. AND? Nothing special about that passage.

Pants

It may be herricy after cytanke's post but I always felt that The Karate Kid was the better John Alvidson film. I think TKK is the best of his films and is better than Rocky.

Bonkie

Oh, I LOVE that excuse! You didn't have the ENERGY, of COURSE! I understand.

das Monkey

Gee ... now you're just being argumentative. Perhaps I should have clarified that I didn't have the energy to argue with someone who wasn't going to change his mind. What the hell is so wrong with that? You made it perfectly clear what your opinion was, and I didn't want to spend a lot of time arguing a point that wasn't going to change. I also figured it would be courteous to thank him for posting such a long analysis when I was the one who initially disagreed with your comment. You don't have to be a dick about it.

das