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Tidal Waves Kill More Than 120,000 in Asia

Tidal Waves Kill More Than 120,000 in Asia

 
Old 12-27-04, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Duran
From http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d_041227123801



The whole article is about material aid that countries have sent to the area. Millions of dollars, drinking water, doctors, etc. And the U.S. "stands ready." WTF? Ready for what? Something to happen? And all we have is a White House statement?

Now maybe it's just poor media coverage, but after reading what all of those other nations are doing to see that my own hasn't done jack shit is disappointing.
probably poor media coverage

I spent 4 years in Italy and one of the unit's missions was humanitarian assistance. There are similar units in the Pacific area. The way it works is after a disaster a HAST is flown in right away. The Humanitarian Assistance Survey Team. Meanwhile the logistics for the actuall operation are prepared. The US has millions of HDR's stocked for these things that are politically correct for most culture's diets. Flying in HDR's isn't that big a deal since they are light. Water is going to be a problem. You can't just find millions of bottles of water in your local supermarket. They will need to fly in water units to make potable water and that will take a day or so because of transporting the equipment.
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Old 12-27-04, 12:43 PM
  #102  
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I spent all day watching football and the first I heard about this disaster is reading this thread. You'd think this could've at least caused a news desk break of some kind.

A horrible, horrible tragedy.
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Old 12-27-04, 12:57 PM
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just to add, only the US and maybe Britain has the logistical capacity to launch a real aid operation. Pakistan or someone else may send one plane, but when you have tens of thousands of people affected it's only a symbol rather than real help. Only the US military has the capacity to fly in supplies from around the world to help millions of people. And with Iraq, it's going to stretch capacity a lot and it will take a few days to get things organized.
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Old 12-27-04, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by nomaan
Government announces Rs.10 million relief for Sri Lankan earthquake victims: ISLAMABAD, Dec 27: Government announced Rs.10 million relief package for the earthquake victims of Sri Lanka, keeping in view the tragic loss of lives and property caused by earthquake and tidal waves. Under the package, relief goods comprising tents, medicines, drinking water and food items are being sent to Sri Lanka today. Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz directed to immediately send the relief goods to Sri Lanka. A plane of Pakistan Army "C-130 carrying the relief goods is leaving for Sri Lanka today. Prime Minister said that Pakistan has taken immediate action and sending the relief goods to Sri Lanka in response to their request. "It is first step from Pakistan and we will send more assistance to them", he added. (PPI) (Posted @ 14:00 PST)

Iran, Turkey who have had experiences with earthquake disasters are also helping out.

Don't have the time to scan the websites to see which other countries help out ..
If I read this correctly, India and Pakistan have contributed Rs. 10 million.

If we use the conversion rate of Rs45/$1 the, they have contributed ~$222,000.
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Old 12-27-04, 01:00 PM
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What about China? They don't have the capacity to bring supplies to the needed countries?
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Old 12-27-04, 01:01 PM
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Old 12-27-04, 01:03 PM
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China can act like a bully, but the reality is that if they tried to invade taiwan they would get their ass handed to them. You can have millions of soldiers, but you need the ability to transport them and supply them. They can invade taiwan, but the soldiers will run out of ammo before they take over the country, and China doesn't have the ability to resupply them.

Only the US has the ships, planes and support units to make this thing happen. And the experience too. Planes and ships are useless unless you can manage things like find supplies around the world and move the planes to pick up the supplies and fly them to the right place.
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Old 12-27-04, 01:09 PM
  #108  
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CNN is now reporting the tsunami was estimated to be 33 ft high and traveling at 500 MPH. And I thought a 102 MPH fastball was scary.


Reminds me of that scene in Deep Impact.
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Old 12-27-04, 01:14 PM
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Wikipedia has an article up already.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_In...ean_earthquake
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Old 12-27-04, 01:23 PM
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These death toll figures are going to go way up. In an earlier post I said 50,000, but Indonesia and India are each reporting over 30,000 missing. This could exceed 100,000. Maybe even 150,000. And I thought the Armenian earthquakes of a decade ago were destructive, I think they topped out around 25,000.

Last I heard there were 8 Americans confirmed dead, not that an American is worth more than anyone else, but it's just info. US embassies estimate there are 800 more Americans still unaccounted for, which may just mean they have not yet been able to contact them.

Just an FYI, if anyone is ever caught in some sort of disaster, natural or man-made, overseas, you should contact a US embassy ASAP so they can contact your relatives stateside and let them know you are okay.
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Old 12-27-04, 01:27 PM
  #111  
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The total energy released by a magnitude 9.0 earthquake such as this one exceeds the total amount of energy consumed in the United States in one month, or the energy released by the wind of a hurricane like Hurricane Isabel over a period of 70 days. This amount of energy is equivalent to a mass of about 100 kg (220 lb), or enough to boil 5000 litres (1,300 US gallons) of water for every man, woman and child on the planet.
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Old 12-27-04, 01:35 PM
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...e/us_quake&e=2

U.S. Dispatches Disaster Teams to Asia

27 minutes ago White House - AP Cabinet & State

By BARRY SCHWEID, AP Diplomatic Writer

WASHINGTON - The United States dispatched disaster teams Monday and prepared a $15 million aid package to the Asian countries hit by a massive earthquake and tsunamis. U.S. officials were seeking to contact hundreds of Americans who remain unaccounted for in the region.

Secretary of State Colin Powell said eight Americans died in the natural disaster, and that embassy officials were trying to locate other U.S. citizens who have not been heard from since Sunday's quake.

"We will do everything we can to immediately help," Powell said.

U.S. officials immediately sent $100,000 each to India, Indonesia, the Maldives and Sri Lanka, and planned to donate $4 million later Monday to help Red Cross disaster efforts, Powell said.

The initial U.S. aid package being crafted was expected to reach $15 million, officials said. Powell cautioned that was a "quick infusion" and that the administration was prepared to help with long-term rebuilding.

U.S. Agency for International Development groups were sent to Thailand and Indonesia to make assessments and the team in Indonesia will go on to Sri Lanka, the officials said.

The U.S. Navy said it sent three P-3 surveillance aircraft from Kadena air base on the Japanese island of Okinawa to Utaphao, Thailand, to conduct survey operations, including a possible role in search-and-rescue efforts.

The Navy said it had no reports of damage to any of its ships or bases in the region.

President Bush expressed his condolences over the "terrible loss of life and suffering," said the White House statement issued aboard Air Force One. Bush was traveling from Washington to Texas, where he was beginning a post-Christmas vacation at his Crawford ranch.
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Old 12-27-04, 01:39 PM
  #113  
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You STAND READY TO HELP because its considered a unilateral invasion when you just fly your supply planes unscheduled into another country.
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Old 12-27-04, 01:49 PM
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It amazes me that even in this there will be politics. People here on this board are already pissed at the White House. We all know that without a doubt the US will send more people, spend more money and do more to help then all the rest of the world combined. Yet, some will still look as us badly. Amazing.

I've been working in Florida since August and thought it was bad there (and it is), but really pales in comparison to this...very sad....
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Old 12-27-04, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Tommy Ceez
You STAND READY TO HELP because its considered a unilateral invasion when you just fly your supply planes unscheduled into another country.
So France, Australia, and Greece are invading? Give me a break.

I'm not saying the U.S. wasn't going to help. My point was that the article I posted detailed actual aid being sent by other countries, but nothing from the U.S. And don't tell me Sri Lanka was asking Ireland and not the U.S. for help.

The biggest tragedy in years and the only response we had at that point is a White House statement saying we "stand ready". That's pathetic. If nothing else, we need to work on public relations. An official statement detailing our aid from our Secretary of State shouldn't have taken until 1 PM EST today.
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Old 12-27-04, 01:59 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by Sdallnct
It amazes me that even in this there will be politics. People here on this board are already pissed at the White House. We all know that without a doubt the US will send more people, spend more money and do more to help then all the rest of the world combined. Yet, some will still look as us badly. Amazing.

I've been working in Florida since August and thought it was bad there (and it is), but really pales in comparison to this...very sad....
I think you're reading things into people's opinions that aren't there. This has nothing to do with politics. But it is hard to increase your standing in the world when you're slow to let people know how you're helping. When Ireland, Germany, France, Australia, Japan, and a few others can point to tangible aid they're sending, and all we have is a statement from the White House saying we'll help, we don't look good on the world stage. I don't care who the President is.

And we may know "without a doubt", but the rest of the world doesn't.
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Old 12-27-04, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Duran
I think you're reading things into people's opinions that aren't there. This has nothing to do with politics. But it is hard to increase your standing in the world when you're slow to let people know how you're helping. When Ireland, Germany, France, Australia, Japan, and a few others can point to tangible aid they're sending, and all we have is a statement from the White House saying we'll help, we don't look good on the world stage. I don't care who the President is.

And we may know "without a doubt", but the rest of the world doesn't.
Fair enough. I will accept that perhaps I jumped the gun. This is part of an article from CNN. Seems like a pretty good start and a pretty good plan to me. In my job all I do is travel from one disaster to another in the US. Trust me when I say, it is not easy to just "go there right now and help". For example, I had to wait a couple of days before flying into Florida after Charlie. Us getting there to soon would take up supplies and resources that locals need (water, gas, food, etc). Not to mention roads being out, no electricity, etc. While planning ahead is very important, there is some evaluation that must be done before you just "go there now".

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapc....ap/index.html

The initial U.S. aid package being crafted was expected to reach at least $15 million, said Ed Fox of the U.S. Agency for International Development. He called it an initial response until surveys are concluded and requests considered.

Also, Fox said, the United States was drawing on shelter, food, water cans and other supplies that were kept in reserve in the Philippines and in Dubai.

Powell cautioned that was a "quick infusion" and that the administration was prepared to help with long-term rebuilding.

He also said while several hundred Americans were unaccounted for it does not imply they were casualties. "It just means we haven't been able to reach out and get contact with them," he told reporters at the State Department.

Assessment groups were sent to Thailand and Indonesia, and a total of 21 teams will fan out through the region to help with sanitation, health and relief supplies, Fox said.

The U.S. Navy said it sent three P-3 surveillance aircraft from Kadena air base on the Japanese island of Okinawa to Utaphao, Thailand, to conduct survey operations, including a possible role in search-and-rescue efforts.
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Old 12-27-04, 02:07 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by Duran
I think you're reading things into people's opinions that aren't there. This has nothing to do with politics. But it is hard to increase your standing in the world when you're slow to let people know how you're helping. When Ireland, Germany, France, Australia, Japan, and a few others can point to tangible aid they're sending, and all we have is a statement from the White House saying we'll help, we don't look good on the world stage. I don't care who the President is.

And we may know "without a doubt", but the rest of the world doesn't.
you should really think about what you are saying. say there are only one million people that need help. That means that any aid will need to send at least 1 million meals and more than 1 million gallons of water into the areas on a daily basis. Do you really think that the one or two planes is enough? It's more of a symbol.

You can talk all you want, but the reality is that you can't just send in aid. You have to find the supplies that are scattered around the world, you have to find the planes and reroute them and then find places to land them in the affected areas. And then once you do that you have to find a way to dirtibute the aid with the proper security. And then you have to keep flying the stuff in on a daily basis because people tend to consume food and water and then they need more. Things like this don't just happen, you need a team on the ground to asses the damage and then coordinate the aid to the right areas.
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Old 12-27-04, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RevLiver
The total energy released by a magnitude 9.0 earthquake such as this one exceeds the total amount of energy consumed in the United States in one month, or the energy released by the wind of a hurricane like Hurricane Isabel over a period of 70 days. This amount of energy is equivalent to a mass of about 100 kg (220 lb), or enough to boil 5000 litres (1,300 US gallons) of water for every man, woman and child on the planet.
link?

How much energy does an atomic bomb have comparatively speaking?
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Old 12-27-04, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by zuffy
What about China? They don't have the capacity to bring supplies to the needed countries?
You don't suppose China provide aid by sending troops to other countries do you? I forsee a massive massive defections or assylum seekers.
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Old 12-27-04, 02:16 PM
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Good gawd. That place is one step away from being a landfill.

I think out of all natural disasters (earthquakes, hurricanes, volcanoes, avalanches) that tidal waves cause the most casualties simply because of the water involved. If a person running through the streets is knocked unconscious by flying debris....that person is dead because he will drown. Or if a person is laying in bed and his house immediately fills up with water....he will most likely drown too. The only other natural disaster I can think of that would cause more death would be an asteroid hitting a metropolitan area.
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Old 12-27-04, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by wabio
link?

How much energy does an atomic bomb have comparatively speaking?

here's a general idea

http://www.nukewatch.com/projectelf/tridentkilling.html

The Hiroshima bomb, at 12.5 kilotons, killed 140,000 people.


Today’s Trident II (D-5) missile warhead has 475 kilotons. This is equal to 38 Hiroshima bombs (12.5 times 38 = 475).

There are eight 475 kiloton warheads on each D-5 missile, about 3,800 kilotons.

With 3,800 kilotons, each missile carries the equivalent of 304 Hiroshima bombs.

The D-5’s 304 Hiroshimas (times 140,000) means a single D-5 Trident missile with eight warheads can potentially kill 42,560,000 people.

Each sub can carry 24 missiles so a single Trident submarine, with 24 D-5 missiles (192 warheads) is equal to 7,296 Hiroshimas or the death of 1,021,440,000 (one billion) people.

The United States has 14 Trident submarines which today threaten more than 14,300,160,000 (14 billion) people -- 2 1/3 times the earth’s population.
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Old 12-27-04, 02:21 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by al_bundy
you should really think about what you are saying. say there are only one million people that need help. That means that any aid will need to send at least 1 million meals and more than 1 million gallons of water into the areas on a daily basis. Do you really think that the one or two planes is enough? It's more of a symbol.

You can talk all you want, but the reality is that you can't just send in aid. You have to find the supplies that are scattered around the world, you have to find the planes and reroute them and then find places to land them in the affected areas. And then once you do that you have to find a way to dirtibute the aid with the proper security. And then you have to keep flying the stuff in on a daily basis because people tend to consume food and water and then they need more. Things like this don't just happen, you need a team on the ground to asses the damage and then coordinate the aid to the right areas.
I know exactly what I'm saying. I never implied that we should just be sending people, planes, or whatever over this instant just to be first. We should, however, been able to point to what aid we will have available to them, not that we "stand ready." That doesn't mean shit. The information that's come out in later articles sounds great. It points to a clear plan for tangible action.
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Old 12-27-04, 02:22 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by wabio
link?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_In...ean_earthquake

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1031062553.htm
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Old 12-27-04, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Duran
I know exactly what I'm saying. I never implied that we should just be sending people, planes, or whatever over this instant just to be first. We should, however, been able to point to what aid we will have available to them, not that we "stand ready." That doesn't mean shit. The information that's come out in later articles sounds great. It points to a clear plan for tangible action.
i don't think anyone knows who is going to send what. In these cases where many nations and organizations are going to be involved it makes sense to wait in order to work out the details of who is sending what. France is sending doctors, but someone has to send in the drugs and medical supplies. Makes no sense to just announce we are sending crap when another country may already have the resources on the way.
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