Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > Archives > Archives > Key Thread Archive
Reload this Page >

Tidal Waves Kill More Than 120,000 in Asia

Tidal Waves Kill More Than 120,000 in Asia

 
Old 12-30-04, 04:47 PM
  #426  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: NYC
Posts: 17,016
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Myster X
Maybe Kofi Annan's son can donate a few dollars here and there after all the millions he made from Iraq oil for food scandal.
The sad thing is, he didn't make millions. He only received like $30,000 a year from it. I mean, if you're going to steal, at least steal big, you know?
Breakfast with Girls is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 04:54 PM
  #427  
BDB
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Palm Springs and Los Angeles
Posts: 21,980
Received 53 Likes on 49 Posts
Sadly the region needs as many tourists as possible to continue. As it would seem that a large portion of the revenue is from tourism.
BDB is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 05:02 PM
  #428  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 488
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by nevermind
Yes, but you see the difference is that the NYT has no interest in slamming the Canadian Federal Government, France, or anyone but (you know the rest).
We (Canada) have our own papers that have slammed the federal government over their response. They just don't have the same profile as the NYT, so you'd wouldn't hear of them in the news.

The initial Canadian government contribution was quite "miserly", as was the initial US contribution (I'd assume that it will increase later). I think the criticism by the papers may actually do some good this time, if it results in increased contributions.

On a dollar for dollar impact basis, contribution to the relief efforts will probably do a lot more good for the world than things such as Iraq or the Canadian gun registry.
Aldarion is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 05:05 PM
  #429  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Formerly known as "brizz"/kck
Posts: 23,427
Received 6 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by X
I think this is a very good idea and the beginning of a trend in more than just disaster relief. It will put in perspective what we and our allies do versus what the U.N. does. Not to mention how much gets allocated to "overhead" when it goes through the U.N. They're only the middleman anyway, they don't create their own money.
I think it's a very bad idea, ill-timed, and stubborn political bullshit myself. You don't want to go through the UN for military operations? fine. But this is one thing the UN is well-prepared to coordinate and for us to circumvent it out of spite is deplorable.
HistoryProf is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 05:09 PM
  #430  
X
Administrator
 
X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1987
Location: AA-
Posts: 11,286
Received 106 Likes on 87 Posts
Originally Posted by Breakfast with Girls
I mean, if you're going to steal, at least steal big, you know?
That's what my parents always told me. And if you steal enough you can usually give it back and not be prosecuted.

Kofi was a bad parent.
X is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 05:44 PM
  #431  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bartertown due to it having a better economy than where I really live.
Posts: 29,797
Received 14 Likes on 9 Posts
Originally Posted by Ranger
It's just one example. There are a LOT of countries we shouldn't give money (especially taxpayers' money) to.
Personally, I don't think taxpayer money should be given to any country
and at least a few Presidents agree, assuming these quotes I saw at another site are accurate

"I feel obliged to withhold my approval of the plan to indulge in benevolent and charitable sentiment through the appropriation of public funds. ... I find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution."
~ President Grover Cleveland, 1887; vetoing an appropriation to help drought-stricken counties in Texas.

"I cannot find any authority in the Constitution for public charity... (such spending) would be contrary to the letter and the spirit of the Constitution and subversive to the whole theory upon which the Union of these States is founded."
~ President Franklin Pierce, 1854; vetoing an appropriation bill to help the mentally ill.

"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers (enumerated in the Constitution) connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."
~ James Madison,

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
~ James Madison, objecting to Congress appropriating $15,000 to assist French refugees.
mikehunt is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 06:00 PM
  #432  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 20,767
Likes: 0
Received 13 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by mikehunt
Personally, I don't think taxpayer money should be given to any country.
I can agree with that. Look at the European countries and their heavy taxes, sure they've given out a lot to humanitarian groups, but a lot of that money goes straight to dictators. It also been a political tool that has been abused far too many times. So it's my opinion that the only country the US should look out for is itself. However, I have absolutely no problem with privately-funded humanitarian groups (as long they're not helping terrorist groups).
Ranger is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 06:22 PM
  #433  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Duran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 8,173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mikehunt
Personally, I don't think taxpayer money should be given to any country
While I tend to agree, being a libertarian, I do recognize the fact that some methods of aid (equipment, specifically) are maintained by the military, which puts the government in a unique position that the private sector cannot duplicate. This really only comes into play for large natural disasters, though.
Duran is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 06:41 PM
  #434  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Dublin, CA
Posts: 2,102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mikehunt
Personally, I don't think taxpayer money should be given to any country.
Let those who want to give above and beyond their taxes, do so freely.
succubiss is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 06:55 PM
  #435  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Gil Jawetz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: I was here but I disappear
Posts: 8,407
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I can see the point there and almost want to agree with it. But I also feel proud when my nation steps up and helps victims like this. It would be a shame if public funds only ever went to attack other countries and not ever to assist them.

That said, I'm all for charitable private donations and consider that to be the truest form of charity since the motivation is purely good.
Gil Jawetz is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 07:07 PM
  #436  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
DaveNinja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Sacramento (The City of a Beer)
Posts: 7,349
Received 37 Likes on 29 Posts
I was looking over the world map today and realized this is probably the most damage an earthquake caused tsunami could do (with a simular magnitude). The low lands with high populations near a subduction zone. Tsunami warning system in this area probably wont matter now since its been over 500 years since the last tsunami (no records of a tsunami this size in this part of the world since 1509 and no one knows of any legends before that which could infer one).
DaveNinja is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 07:13 PM
  #437  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bartertown due to it having a better economy than where I really live.
Posts: 29,797
Received 14 Likes on 9 Posts
I could maybe beok with tax money being used to directly buy food/water/medical supplies/building materials/etc from US companies and then shipping those supplies over. But not just handing out money
mikehunt is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 07:18 PM
  #438  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Gil Jawetz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: I was here but I disappear
Posts: 8,407
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mikehunt
But not just handing out money
I doubt very much that that's what they're doing. I mean, some cash will be used to stabilize the economies of these nations, but the bulk of the $ amount you see is going to be in tangible aid and services.
Gil Jawetz is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 08:32 PM
  #439  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The land of chocolate
Posts: 6,617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mikehunt
Personally, I don't think taxpayer money should be given to any country
And then you ask yourself why so many people hate Americans.

It's not a personal shot, Mike - it's just a shot at the attitude of 'not in my backyard' that seems so prevalent in the world today. Nothing these days is ever done without thinking 'how will it affect me'. It's not the problem of the United States, so taxpayers shouldn't be required to do anything about it.

Even the idea of giving goods that are provided 'from US companies' indicates a very much 'me first...me only' attitude that is often associated with America. America invades Iraq...the US companies get lots of money. America gives money to various international humanitarian groups...but they sure as hell want to provide something in return.

No, that may not be true, but it's very much a perception that lingers when politicans do come out saying (certainly at a time like this) things like this - that it's not the job of the US Government to help out people less fortunate. A Government is her people.

As Gil said - giving at a time like this should be something to be proud of. It's a display that, at the end of the day, political differences, boundaries and ideological spats are put aside and we all band together to support each other.
naughty jonny is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 10:19 PM
  #440  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Duran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 8,173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by naughty jonny
And then you ask yourself why so many people hate Americans.

It's not a personal shot, Mike - it's just a shot at the attitude of 'not in my backyard' that seems so prevalent in the world today. Nothing these days is ever done without thinking 'how will it affect me'. It's not the problem of the United States, so taxpayers shouldn't be required to do anything about it.
He's not saying Americans shouldn't help, he's saying it should come from private funds. There's a big difference. Paying for charities from taxpayer funds is compelling everyone to pay for it. I happen to agree, in theory anyway. Do you think private citizens would be stingy? The $6.7 million donated through Amazon along would seem to indicate otherwise.
Duran is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 10:27 PM
  #441  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,760
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Over 100,000 people have died and that number keeps rising. Millions are homeless, the economies will no doubt go to shit. An initial aid offering fo $15,000,000 from the US is pathetic, especially when one considers how many BILLIONS, if not TRILLIONS of dollars we spend on the military, every year. Why not take even a quarter of the money we spend ATTACKING other countries and help one of them out?

We are, after all, all humans, occupying the same planet. It could just as easily have happened in California as it did in Asia.

Maybe if everyone set their differences aside and actually helped each other out, especially in such a horrible, horrible situation as this, we wouldn't lived in such a fucked up world and be so pissed off at each other.

The comments some people have made in this thread are shameful.
shaun3000 is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 10:29 PM
  #442  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bartertown due to it having a better economy than where I really live.
Posts: 29,797
Received 14 Likes on 9 Posts
and I'm not just talking about this flood case, I'm against tax funded foreign aid in general. Besides, even when we give we're still hated, so that obviously has no effect
How much did the UN get countries to send us after the FL huricanes?
mikehunt is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 10:33 PM
  #443  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,760
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
The hurricanes don't even come close to comparing.
shaun3000 is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 10:57 PM
  #444  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: New Jersey, where the state motto should be Leave No Tree Standing
Posts: 2,073
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mikehunt
and I'm not just talking about this flood case, I'm against tax funded foreign aid in general. Besides, even when we give we're still hated, so that obviously has no effect
How much did the UN get countries to send us after the FL huricanes?
Last I checked we didn't exactly need foreign aid to help us with the hurricanes. We have these things called insurance companies. They pay out claims when disasters occur. Not to mention we are, by far, the wealthiest nation on the planet. If you seriously think the Florida hurricanes and this tsunami are even remotely similar in magnitude and need for aid, then there's no point to continuing a conversation with you.
RevLiver is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 11:03 PM
  #445  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The land of chocolate
Posts: 6,617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mikehunt
How much did the UN get countries to send us after the FL huricanes?
This is what I mean by perception. We won't donate (as a Government) because "they didn't give anything to us".

Disaster, tragedy, poverty...they don't just stop at our border and cease to be our problem. The 'rich, evil West' opinion is (IMO) in part because we have this attitude. And I'm not just talking about the US - I'm including other nations as well (including Australia).

Even when we do give it, we expect something in return. Trade deals, favoured nation status, expectations that people will change their way of life because we've given them money (World Bank and cash crops). We as nations don't give simply because it's the right thing to do...we do it because it's going to benefit us in some way.

As for the $15 Million, well...IMO, that IS pathetic. With a population of 300 million people, that equates to $0.05 cents per person. If you tried to even give that as a tip to your waitress, you'd have it thrown back in your face. And yet your Government thinks it's acceptable.

Even our Government's $26 million (US dollars, around US $1.30 per person) is pretty paltry when you think that wouldn't even buy us a sandwich for lunch.
naughty jonny is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 11:11 PM
  #446  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bartertown due to it having a better economy than where I really live.
Posts: 29,797
Received 14 Likes on 9 Posts
obviously this flood is worse, I never said it wasn't
mikehunt is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 11:15 PM
  #447  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bartertown due to it having a better economy than where I really live.
Posts: 29,797
Received 14 Likes on 9 Posts
oh and where is this 15 million coming from?
our initial amount it 35mil with more once our people get on site and evaluate the situation. I watched Colin say that very thing on the news
mikehunt is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 11:24 PM
  #448  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,620
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by naughty jonny
This is what I mean by perception. We won't donate (as a Government) because "they didn't give anything to us".

Disaster, tragedy, poverty...they don't just stop at our border and cease to be our problem. The 'rich, evil West' opinion is (IMO) in part because we have this attitude. And I'm not just talking about the US - I'm including other nations as well (including Australia).

Even when we do give it, we expect something in return. Trade deals, favoured nation status, expectations that people will change their way of life because we've given them money (World Bank and cash crops). We as nations don't give simply because it's the right thing to do...we do it because it's going to benefit us in some way.

As for the $15 Million, well...IMO, that IS pathetic. With a population of 300 million people, that equates to $0.05 cents per person. If you tried to even give that as a tip to your waitress, you'd have it thrown back in your face. And yet your Government thinks it's acceptable.

Even our Government's $26 million (US dollars, around US $1.30 per person) is pretty paltry when you think that wouldn't even buy us a sandwich for lunch.
When has the US ever said we wouldn't give aid to a country because they haven't given us any help? And the figure of 15 million is out of date, it is 35 million now, not counting donations by the American public to various charitable organizations. I am sure that is still not enough for you, but the fact of the matter is that countries all over the world are doing what they can and in the end the countries will be restored as well as they can be considering the devastation and tragic loss of life.
beavismom is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 11:27 PM
  #449  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The land of chocolate
Posts: 6,617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mikehunt
oh and where is this 15 million coming from?
our initial amount it 35mil with more once our people get on site and evaluate the situation. I watched Colin say that very thing on the news
Your initial amount was $15 million, not $35 Million. On the 27th Dec from Colin Powell:

"At this point, we don't know exactly how much of that will be in terms of cash to be disbursed, or whether it'll be commodities. But we anticipate that our initial reaction to this is going to be in the neighborhood of $15 million. That may increase, it may change."
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/041227/3/1ts5h.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=363473

(That has since been raised, but it was the initial amount when they knew that at least 20,000 lives had been lost).
naughty jonny is offline  
Old 12-30-04, 11:33 PM
  #450  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 20,767
Likes: 0
Received 13 Likes on 6 Posts
I heard Coca Cola was donating $10 million and Pfizer $35 million.
Ranger is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.