sldvd

I found some information in a couple of different threads regarding the PAL speedup issue. Not sure if the information is conflicting, but it's certainly confusing things for me.

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/internation...non-issue.html
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/internation...-slowdown.html
So a guy in the first thread says that TV shows on DVD won't suffer from the PAL speedup, but then a guy in the second thread says that they do.

Does anyone know specifically if the Star Trek TV shows on DVD will have the speedup problem? I live in the US and have a region-free PAL-to-NTSC converting DVD player, and want to buy the much cheaper DVD sets from amazon.co.uk. I want to get all the ST:TNG sets, and might also get the other series later.

mythmaker18

There is a lot of misinformation being spread here. Some of the information is true, some is not, and some is not the "whole" truth.

Here's the long and short of it:

For film-based TV shows (and cinema films, of course), it all depends on what the PAL duplication master was sourced from. If it was sourced from an NTSC duplication master tape, then there would be no speed-up (there would, however, be a standards conversion from NTSC to PAL). If they made the PAL master directly from the 35mm/16mm film, there there would be a 4% speedup in picture and sound (but the picture quality would be better than an NTSC to PAL conversion).

So, either one is a trade-off: you go with pitch-correct sound, but inferior image quality, or go with better image quality with 4% faster action and sound.

This is true for both movies and TV shows where the masters exist on film, such as Star Trek, Mission: Impossible, etc. Those older shows were not only shot on film, but also had all their post-production work (SFX, etc) done on film as well, meaning the completed master is film, which leads to the two possible outcomes of going to PAL, depending on which type of master the releasing company is working from.

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For newer shows (since about the mid '80s) like The Hitchhiker and Star Trek: The Next Generation, although shot on film, they had all their post-production work done on videotape, meaning the master copies (with all the FX, etc. in place) are on NTSC videotape. This was both a time and money-saving measure.

Thus, TV shows with this type of master would then be playing at the correct pitch in PAL countries, since they're simply being run through a standards conversion instead of being taken from film. This is also why such shows would be difficult (and costly) to do in high-def, because to do that, the shows would have to be edited/assembled/post-produced all over again (i.e. the raw live-action film would have to be edited scene-by-scene again, visual effects will have to be dropped back in, music and sound FX be placed back in, etc.) for every single episode, since you can't get a true high-definition picture from an NTSC tape.

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Now, with BluRay, the game changes again. If the 24fps film is encoded onto BluRay disc at 24fps, then BluRay players capable of dealing with 24fps material will play it at the proper speed with no need for any type of format conversion. If a film is encoded onto BR at 24fps in the US and the UK (such as The Prisoner), then the content will look (and sound) identical.

However, there are still incompatibility issues similar to the old NTSC/PAL thing with other high-definition content: namely, whether something was originally shot (progressively) to be compatible with 60hz (US) or with 50hz (Europe). Although all Eurpoean players and TVs are required to be compatible with both standards, US televisions, of course, are not, so there are several "Region B" discs of British HD titles such as the TV series Being Human, which was shot/edited at 50hz and was also encoded at 50hz for the Region B disc, that won't play on many American BR players and/or HDTVs, which isn't as well-known as the NTSC/PAL thing, and isn't as easy to overcome (the list of BR players that can convert 50hz to 60hz is small, and the list of TVs that can display native 50hz content is perhaps even smaller).

Perhaps the widest-used BluRay player, the US Playstation 3, can't play native or convert 50hz discs.

Sorry for such a lengthy post, but hope someone here finds it useful.

mythmaker18

If you saw my lengthy post, you might have gathered that you should not see/hear PAL speedup in STNG. You would, however, have to put up with your DVD player's PAL to NTSC conversion--which is essentially, a double conversion, as the source NTSC video was converted to PAL for the R2 DVDs, then your player is converting it back to NTSC--and it won't give you nearly as good a picture as the original R1 discs that are in their native NTSC. If you can live with the picture quality tradeoff, then go for it, just be aware that it might be worth thinking about.

sldvd

Thanks for the information, I hadn't even considered the double conversion.

RobLutter

You can get around this by using an HTPC or DVD player/TV that support PAL output.