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Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

Old 02-28-09, 04:03 PM
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Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

I searched and did not find anything, so if this is a repost, my apologies.

This may be a stupid reason to start a thread but this is something that has puzzled me for a while.

While going through threads here about new DVD releases I almost always see a post that says something to the affect of "just get the R2 or R4 disc becasue it has better features/transfer." Does PAL speedup not concern those people? I'm not like looking down on them or anything but it just seems that a person that would be concerned about having the best possible version of a movie would also want that movie to be at the correct speed.

A lot of people say they don't notice it but I can't see how it doesn't bother other people like it bugs me. I mean, everytime I've watched a disc with speedup the music is not the correct pitch and the movements are off and it just makes watching unenjoyable. I know that the general public wouldn't see the difference but it seems like people on this board just wouldn't stand for the 4% speedup.

I also understand about having special features and such for a movie you love. Are some features not effected by speedup? I know that British TV shows don't suffer from speedup due to the framerate.

So basically it boils down to, do you just go after the best possible version of a film regardless of region and PAL speedup? Do you just ignore the incorrect speed and not let it bother you?
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Old 02-28-09, 04:06 PM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

you would probably get more hits in the international forum.
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Old 02-28-09, 05:05 PM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

I have never noticed it, but I've only seen a few R2 DVD's.

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Old 02-28-09, 05:06 PM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

Yes, it does for me, which is why I only watch my PAL imports on my HTPC with WinDVD Truspeed which adjusts it back to normal.
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Old 02-28-09, 05:42 PM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

I never notice it, peronally, but I'm sure some people do.
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Old 02-28-09, 07:28 PM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

YES! It really annoys me. How and why did such a broken system (playing 24 fps films @ 25 fps) ever get approved??

Matome:

Is WinDVD Truspeed the holy grail that you make it out to be? Does it *correctly* take a 100-min 25 fps PAL encoded film, and play it back at true audio pitch AND video speed? Is the movie, when played back 104 minutes, and converted in real time from 25 fps to 24 fps? If so, I'm sold, and can finally enjoy PAL DVDs as they are intended to be seen.
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Old 02-28-09, 08:12 PM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

I don't have any PAL DVDs, but I am wondering if some DVD players convert them to the correct speed, for example the OPPO upconverting DV-981HD DVD player lists this in its specs.

# Multiple high definition video formats through HDMI output: NTSC: 480p/720p/1080i/1080p; PAL: 576p/720p/1080i/1080p

# Direct PAL/NTSC disc and TV compatibility and system conversion

Does anybody know if that means that it converts it to the right speed?
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Old 02-28-09, 08:12 PM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

I don't notice any difference, so it doesn't bother me.
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Old 02-28-09, 08:26 PM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

Originally Posted by zyzzle View Post
YES! It really annoys me.
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Old 02-28-09, 09:03 PM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

it definitely annoys me also, especially when watching a film with actors i'm familiar with. The high picthed voices is very noticeble.
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Old 02-28-09, 09:28 PM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

Originally Posted by Torchur317 View Post
so PAL speedup bothers you but you have no problem with watching a film in the wrong aspect ratio?
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Old 03-01-09, 12:38 AM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

It bothers me too. I stopped buying PAL discs a couple years ago for this reason. Since then, I have replaced all of them with Region 1 or Blu-Rays. The sped up music and the high pitched voices became too noticable to ignore.
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Old 03-01-09, 01:06 AM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

High-pitched voices should be a thing of the past with pitch correction, but some distributors are still too damn lazy to bother. With pitch correction the voices are fine, but for me, sped-up music is always noticeable if I'm familiar with the piece at its correct speed.

Originally Posted by zyzzle
How and why did such a broken system (playing 24 fps films @ 25 fps) ever get approved??
AFAIK the speedup method was selected because the alternative (2^12:3 pulldown) was considered too cumbersome from a technical standpoint, at least at the time -- remember, we're talking about decisions made in the '50s and '60s. There was also the issue of judder, an inherent problem with any pulldown process and which some people hate even more than speedup. Judder on NTSC material (with 3:2 pulldown) is less of a problem in the progressive-scan age, but it's still an issue with PAL because DVD players can't handle 2^12:3 material in progressive mode.

Last edited by Dan Average; 03-01-09 at 01:14 AM.
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Old 03-01-09, 06:12 AM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

Nah, doesn't bother me at all, in my experience.
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Old 03-01-09, 06:51 AM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

Originally Posted by danwiz View Post
I don't have any PAL DVDs, but I am wondering if some DVD players convert them to the correct speed, for example the OPPO upconverting DV-981HD DVD player lists this in its specs.

# Multiple high definition video formats through HDMI output: NTSC: 480p/720p/1080i/1080p; PAL: 576p/720p/1080i/1080p

# Direct PAL/NTSC disc and TV compatibility and system conversion

Does anybody know if that means that it converts it to the right speed?
No, it doesn't. I don't know of any stand alone player that has pitch correction.

I grew up with it, so it doesn't really irritate me. Only a small percentage of the population are sensitive to it apparently; some don't notice, to others it's like fingernails being drawn down a blackboard.
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Old 03-01-09, 02:05 PM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

I think the funniest thing is when people buy R2 movies specifically for a DTS track. Ooooh, we get to hear the PAL speedup in all of its audio glory!
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Old 03-01-09, 08:07 PM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

Doesn't seem noticible to me, so no, not bothered by it.
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Old 03-02-09, 09:01 AM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

I think it depends on the disc, and the player. I have three all region players, one of them I almost NEVER notice any sort of speeding up or unatural movements. One of my players (my Phillips) it's really only noticable on a few discs (the Russ Meyers discs especially), and I noticed that the pitched up voices is only really noticable to me on commentaries for some reason.

It doesn't bother me.
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Old 03-02-09, 10:14 AM
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http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Articles/PALSpeedUp/PALSpeedUp.asp

Originally Posted by scott1598 View Post
you would probably get more hits in the international forum.
Indeed !
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Old 03-02-09, 10:56 AM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

Yes, PAL speed up does bother me. This is why I only get PAL DVDs when it is the best version of a film available.

People talk about the slight increase of video resolution because of the PAL video signal but that's hardly ever noticeable. However, PAL sped up sound always is to my ears and the reason why it makes it inferior to NTSC.
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Old 03-02-09, 01:37 PM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

Is it inferior to NTSC or just inferior when you are watching it on an NTSC source?

Whenever I watch PAL discs on PAL system IN the UK I don't notice any speed up, does this only occur when you are playing PAL discs on an NTSC set up?
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Old 03-02-09, 01:44 PM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

Originally Posted by Lastdaysofrain View Post
Is it inferior to NTSC or just inferior when you are watching it on an NTSC source?

Whenever I watch PAL discs on PAL system IN the UK I don't notice any speed up, does this only occur when you are playing PAL discs on an NTSC set up?
Obviously speed up only occurs with material filmed at 24fps (i.e. pretty much everything), which is broadcast, or presented on DVD, at 25fps to prevent a strobing effect, but PAL is PAL wherever, however, you view it.

It does have some benefits over NTSC, increased native resolution being one of them.
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Old 03-02-09, 02:44 PM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

It bothers me, yes.

I will only endure it when no suitable alternative exists as with Lost Highway.
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Old 03-02-09, 03:22 PM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

Most of my PAL discs are of UK television shows, so it doesn't bother me at all. I'm simply watching the programs as they were aired.

I think the only time I noticed the speedup was for a James Bond disc - I know Sean Connery's voice too well to have not noticed.
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Old 03-02-09, 05:07 PM
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Re: Does PAL speedup bother anyone around here?

It bothers me.....

But it really bothers me when I watching a movie which is speed up already, or when a movie has a bunch of edit and cuts from different angles. I have less time to take in each shot.
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