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CDWOW lose court ruling, owe £41M / impact on ability to continue trading

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CDWOW lose court ruling, owe £41M / impact on ability to continue trading

Old 05-29-07, 07:59 AM
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CDWOW lose court ruling, owe £41M / impact on ability to continue trading

Good luck getting your items.

Judge has ordered CDwow to pay £41million

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6700639.stm
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Old 05-29-07, 08:43 AM
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that's lame. is Sony or BMG not Sony or BMG no matter what follows it (HK) or (UK)?
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Old 05-29-07, 09:18 AM
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Given their annual turnover, for breaking the 2004 undertaking I can't see how the "fine" can be so high.

But I doubt GATT would be interested.
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Old 05-29-07, 09:43 AM
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Here's a pair of quotes from The Register as the case was progressing:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/01...ys_amazon_com/
Published Wednesday 7th January 2004 12:33 GMT

Music trade group, the BPI, has played down a report in the FT which claims that it is investigating Amazon.com for alleged breach of copyright laws and "illegal importing".

According to the newspaper, the BPI (British Phonographic Industry) is in the early stages of an investigation examining whether selling CDs to punters in the UK from Amazon.com constitutes "parallel importing", which is illegal under some circumstances

Parallel, or grey, importing is when goods are sourced from overseas (usually at a cheaper price) rather than bought locally. CDs bought from outside the EU (the US or the Far east for example) could be a breach of copyright.

A spokesman for the BPI told The Register that it regularly checks the activities of retailers, among them Amazon.com.

But he described a recent test purchase from Amazon.com as merely a "routine check" and nothing more.

The BPI, the UK's equivalent of the RIAA, has already launched legal action against two e-tailers, Jersey-based Play.com and CD Wow, one of the most prominent UK online merchants, for selling CD imports. CD Wow is also being sued by the Irish music industry. The CD Wow case hits the High Court next month. Philip Robinson, director of CD Wow, said: "We have got consent (from the record companies) and change of ownership takes place outside the UK.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/02...forces_cd_wow/
Published Wednesday 4th February 2004 12:29 GMT

The British Phonographic Industry (BPI) has won an injunction ordering Internet retailer CD Wow to drop claims that it had been forced by the UK record industry to raise CD prices.

CD Wow has given an undertaking to the court that it will not make any more such claims. The case returns to court on March 1.

At a hearing yesterday CD Wow's barrister "agreed with the Judge that CD Wow had not had to increase prices and that whether or not CD Wow charged more for CDs was a matter for the internet retailer alone," the BPI said in a statement.

The BPI is the main trade association for the UK's record business. Last month CD Wow stopped selling CDs imported from Hong Kong, following an out-of-court settlement with the BPI. The company raised CD prices by £2 to £10.99, as a consequence.

But yesterday, Feb 3, it reduced prices back again to £8.99. In an email to customers, the etailer said:

We've been working our little cotton socks off to source our chart albums within the EU at the lowest possible price and cutting our margins even more. There have been a few cutbacks in the office, I'm working out of the YMCA and using an etch-a-sketch as my PC was sold.
It was amazing how the BPI back then sought to distance itself from the price rises that flowed from its success in court - where it had managed to curtail CDWOW's ability to source its stock from cheaper markets i.e. "It is not our fault if you have to raise prices when we get a court ruling that you have to buy your stock from more expensive markets".

Although not a downloader, I never buy a "full price" CD or DVD these days.

Sometimes I buy online, other times I wait for an instore sale. In the UK prices have been falling, not least because the large supermarkets heavily discount chart discs. It seems surprising that the proper record shops aren't using the BPI to complain about that....
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Old 05-29-07, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by benedict
It seems surprising that the proper record shops aren't using the BPI to complain about that....
they have done.
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Old 05-30-07, 12:53 AM
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£41,000,000 / US$81,000,000

Could be the death of CDWow and any other legitimate (in every reasonable sense) supplier these fuckers can get to.
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Old 05-30-07, 03:15 AM
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It shows the 'greed' to which some of the world's record companies will go to to destroy any company which doesn't adhere to its monopoly on CD prices.

In Australia - we have a CD market which ALLOWS imports - mainly from cheaper supplied in Indonesia. I don't see - and haven't seen CDWow doing this - with the few CDs that I've gotten from them.

The BPI and other companies like the RIAA are all about maintaining their monopoly and high prices on music.

Originally Posted by BBC News
"It is vital that all retailers compete on a level playing field," said director general Kim Bayley. "Illegal imports threaten that level playing field and threaten British jobs."
What a load of crap this is - explain how a CD manufactured by the same company in another country could be regarded as 'illegal'. The monopolistic copyright laws in the UK appear to be outdated. And 'threaten British jobs' - get real - people will buy items at their lowest / cheapest price - not at the high pounds that they charge in the UK.

I'm hoping that this doesn't kill CDWow - as I find them one of the best supplies of cheaper UK DVD titles.
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Old 05-30-07, 06:56 PM
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So are people still receiving their orders? There's a couple of things I'm thinking about purchasing from them but I don't want to throw away like $60 on things I'll never get and then not be able to get the money refunded. Also, would it make any difference that I'm in the US and not the UK? I can't really see that it would but who knows.

Last edited by Worm810; 05-30-07 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 05-31-07, 03:59 AM
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The head of the BPI called them a bunch of crooks here on UK TV.

This is way we are today. Genuine companies selling genuine stock being forced to pay fines because of ugly copyright laws which have infected the world. CDWow have had their bank accounts seized.

We are all terrorists now and because we can't afford lawyers we can't stop being fucked over either through civil or criminal courts. This is a price we pay for our politicians' actions since the start of this century.
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Old 05-31-07, 05:17 AM
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http://www.channel4.com/news/article...rd+fine/536447

Originally Posted by Channel4
It's the biggest damages award ever granted to the record industry - which said the trade undermined investment in home-grown musical talent.


Lets have a look at their 'claims' :

"Undermined investment in home-grown musical talent" - to coin an english word - bollocks. What a load of crap. Talent comes from taking chances, consistency and putting stuff what the public may want to buy. If its expensive - I personally wont take the 'chance' in buying something new.

Originally Posted by Channel4
The British Phonographic Industry - which represents the major record labels in the UK - says that CD Wow is not a consumer champion. Indeed, their strategy of importing cheap CDs threatens the vibrancy and future of the British music scene.

Here in Australia, there are stores which are able to import cheaper cds from other countries and sell them for up to half the B&M store prices (Let me change that - the expensive stores like the HMVs of the world). Discount stores like the Kmarts charge reasonable prices. Is talent here in say Australia increasing... decreasing..... Well its been decreasing because record companies aren't interested in seeking out new talent, nor taking a punt at reducing the price of CDs to allow people to 'experiment' with new artists.

Then again - consumers are no longer interested in WHOLE ALBUMS. They are more willing to download single songs from places like iTunes. How is this practice going go improme the music scenes around the world ?? Will we just have artists who produce singles ??


Originally Posted by Channel4
CD Wow is the third largest online music retailer in the country. Last year, they sold over £20m worth of music, films and games. Today, a high court judge ordered them to pay double that amount, to the British record industry. This is why CD Wow are able to undercut the High Street because they buy CDs in places like Hong Kong - where they are much cheaper - and pass them on to consumers here in the UK at discounted prices.

CRAP CRAP.

Why is it that DVD prices continue to fall over time - and CD prices remain the same ??

Why is it that I will take a 'chance' on a DVD for $10 - and think twice about buying a CD for double (and triple the price down under) ???

The movie industry - which mind you is part of the music recording industy - is aware that consumers will take chances when prices are low - and that the market is flooded with product. Stores need to move stock = and therefore discounts regularly occur. Sure - CDs are discounted - but their 'price falls' tend to take ages.


Originally Posted by Channel4
The British Phonographic Industry - which represents the major record labels in the UK - says that CD Wow is not a consumer champion. Indeed, their strategy of importing cheap CDs threatens the vibrancy and future of the British music scene.
I wish some people would understand that we NOW live in a WORLD MARKET PLACE. If I can find a DVD which is cheaper or better than the one locally - THEN I WILL BUY IT FROM THAT SELLER. The music business is NOT IMMUNE from this. WAKE UP and stop with this copyright monopoly !!


The record industry is stupid enough to pay some artists $$millions on future productions - and have artists flaunt their lifestyles - when it is well known that many artists fail to make a living out of it. Examples such as Robbie Williams and Janet Jackson are proof that paying artists for future productions is fraunt with risks (and poorly received records).

Where is the 'new vibrant British music scene' ?? It doesnt get player much outside the UK - and even if it does - are we the consumers willing to spend money on a 10 track CD knowing probably one or two songs ??

AND HERE'S THE KILLER COMMENT
Originally Posted by Channel4
....... but for now it seems that British music fans will have to go on paying some of the highest prices in the world for CDs.
Thats great for a competive marketplace after all !!!



I hope that we don't see the end of CDWow.

Last edited by tonyjg; 05-31-07 at 05:22 AM.
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Old 05-31-07, 02:24 PM
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wasn't amazon one of the main complianters yet they are guilty of the very same and not only that but tax evation with their Jersey distribution.
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Old 05-31-07, 03:29 PM
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I hope that every single person who stops buying CDs in the UK because of this starts downloading twice as many as they would've bought had this not went down.

And this better not mean the end of CDWow - I by the majority of all of my imported DVDs from them, and at great prices.
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Old 06-01-07, 10:04 AM
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I emailed CDWow about what's going on, and if they are still able to ship items out. Here is what they replied with:

Hi Brent



We have received an overwhelming level of support, all of which has been very favourable.



We have been fighting our case with the BPI since 2001 and business will continue as usual. This latest judgment is being appealed in the UK and the European Courts.



They are holding CD WOW responsible for lowering the price of CDs. This is a fact of which we are proud.



We wish to reassure you that we shall still continue to offer excellent service and best value always to all our customers, and I can also confirm that all orders are being shipped out (unless there is problems with suppliers, etc., any normal problems) and it is business as usual at CD WOW.



Kind regards
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Old 06-01-07, 10:38 AM
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CDWOW.us blog entry: No end to the WOW!
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Old 06-01-07, 10:40 AM
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They sent me a $2 coupon today. Off to buy an MOC title.
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Old 06-01-07, 01:13 PM
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Yep, I got a $2 coupon from them yesterday as well.
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Old 06-01-07, 03:48 PM
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These record labels are absolutely disgusting... they really want to have their cake and eat it too. They complain people are 'stealing' songs via download sites, but yet when people go and purchase a legitimate product from CDWOW (which is what they claim they want everybody to do), they don't like the fact that they are paying a bit less than over-priced retail. Maybe it's time for these idiots to realize that their merchandise is completely overpriced, and if sites like CDWOW can offer it for a lower price, why can't everybody else? Plus people are more likely to buy, as proven with CDWOW. Glad to hear they aren't going away. They are a great source for music and movie releases that I can't get locally.
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Old 06-02-07, 06:12 PM
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As a member of the CD WOW! US team, I'd like to thank everyone here for their support. It's been a tough week for the company (there was a fire in the building that houses our Hong Kong office which has caused some problems, but more importantly led to the death of a fireman RIP) and it's nice to read some positve stuff here.

It makes a change to the rubbish that the BPI and UK press are spouting -trying to make the company look like monsters for selling legitimate CDs for a low price.
I've read posts on other forums and blogs stating that we are no longer accepting orders and that our affiliate program has been terminated. Very much not true.

Originally Posted by samper
They sent me a $2 coupon today. Off to buy an MOC title.
Glad to be able to look after our loyal members. Enjoy!
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Old 06-02-07, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by koloughlin
As a member of the CD WOW! US team, I'd like to thank everyone here for their support. It's been a tough week for the company (there was a fire in the building that houses our Hong Kong office which has caused some problems, but more importantly led to the death of a fireman RIP) and it's nice to read some positve stuff here.

It makes a change to the rubbish that the BPI and UK press are spouting -trying to make the company look like monsters for selling legitimate CDs for a low price.
I've read posts on other forums and blogs stating that we are no longer accepting orders and that our affiliate program has been terminated. Very much not true.


Glad to be able to look after our loyal members. Enjoy!
Welcome to DVDTalk!

Question. What are the chances of CDWOW carrying HD DVD titles??
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Old 06-02-07, 07:40 PM
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Totally rip-off prices here, which is why CDWOW is so popular.
Take some off the latest albums on both sides of the Atlantic (excluding CDWOWs prices)

Linkin Park - $14.97 shipped @ Amazon US but £10.22 or ~ $20.25 shipped @ Amazon UK - Thats 26% more

Maroon 5 - $12.97 shipped @ Amazon US but £10.23 or ~ $20.27 shipped @ Amazon UK - Thats 36% more

Avril Lavigne - $13.97 shipped @ Amazon US but £10.22 or ~ $20.25 shipped @ Amazon UK - Thats 31% more

Also bear in mind the only reason Amazon & other retailers have brought there CDs below £10 ($20) is because of the competition CDWOW provided, if it wasnt for them, I would still expect to see $25 prices for these CDs.

I will continue to buy CDs from CD wow, with vouchers or links they provide I get my CDs for about $10-$12 which is in line with what music fans around the rest of the globe enjoy, if they are stopped from providing me the deals they do, I will not be buying CDs so they will not be getting any of my money.

Why is it DVDs have fallen in price over the 10 years they have been going, but record companies still want us to pay the same price for a CD as we did 20 years ago
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Old 06-02-07, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Geiger
Welcome to DVDTalk!

Question. What are the chances of CDWOW carrying HD DVD titles??
Thanks for the welcome Bill!

To be honest I'm not entirely sure about the timeframe for this. I know our guys were looking at suppliers and prices etc over the last few months. I'll check it out next week and post here if I hear anything new on it.

And KevD, if you're not already a member - be sure to sign up to our US newsletter or check out the blog so you can take advantage of our offers. I'll try to keep them coming!
[end of cheeky promotional text!]

Cheers,
Kevin
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Old 06-03-07, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by koloughlin
Thanks for the welcome Bill!

To be honest I'm not entirely sure about the timeframe for this. I know our guys were looking at suppliers and prices etc over the last few months. I'll check it out next week and post here if I hear anything new on it.

Cheers,
Kevin
That would be great Kevin. I am sure many here would love to buy our high definition discs from CDWOW if the price is right.
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Old 06-03-07, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Worm810
So are people still receiving their orders? There's a couple of things I'm thinking about purchasing from them but I don't want to throw away like $60 on things I'll never get and then not be able to get the money refunded. Also, would it make any difference that I'm in the US and not the UK? I can't really see that it would but who knows.
Hi there! Just wanted to let you know that yes, people are still receiving orders. And if you're based in the US be sure to check out US store which is www.cd-wow.us.

There's an update on the situation in this new post on the US blog.

Thanks,
Kevin
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Old 06-03-07, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by koloughlin
There's an update on the situation in this new post on the US blog.

Thanks,
Kevin
X1,000
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Old 06-04-07, 07:37 AM
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Over the past few years I've been a frequent and very satisfied customer with CD-WOW. On so many levels, they were a great e-tailer while offering outstanding pricing to the consumer.

Recently however my overall dissatisfaction with them has risen to a level where I do not foresee doing business with them in the very near future, most certainly until I see proof of them getting their act together. I’ve not been enamored with the new shipping/packaging method which has resulted in a noticeable increase of loose discs/cracked cases; the service from first-tier customer service representatives has declined measurably in the past months; the account information and related order status system (which perhaps is a result of issues (office fire?) mentioned earlier) is becoming useless, and the U.S.-site’s order tracking facility (at least in the accounts/member section) has been non-functional for a long while now; promised coupons from the U.S.-site’s recent American Idol contest have not been delivered; order/payment confirmation e-mails are being sent, or better stated – not sent – too often (I thought the new one e-mail payment system would remedy the issue but it seems that is not the case); and of course order delays (which again might be excused based on what was mentioned earlier in this discussion).

I have a few open items with them right now and my fingers are crossed that they ship. Hopefully that happens, but after that I'll be avoiding them for the time being. I love a bargain as much as the next guy, but I also don't mind spending a little extra for service.

With that in mind, I personally have better options. My business for the next batch of Shaw Bros. DVDs - which I have regularly purchased from CD-WOW - will now being going to DDDHouse (who recently went out of their way to provide me with excellent service). Similarly, Yesasia, DVDAsian, HKFlix, Xploitedcinema, and a number of other e-tailers continue to provide me with a quality customer service experience. Though not directly related to orders, Laserdisken and Moviexclusive have also impressed me with their helpfulness. My order for the upcoming UK R2 release of “Hot Fuzz” will instead go to Amazon.co.uk, Bensonsworld, etc. I have often promoted CD-WOW on this site but will not do so from now on.

I am very appreciative of CD-WOW for their past services. It is with sincerity that I wish them good luck in turning things around (and I wish them great success in their fight against BPI). If future posts from my fellow DVDTalkers convince me that CD-WOW has turned things around, I will gladly race back to CD-WOW with wallet in hand. Until then I go elsewhere.

PS: I assure you this post is in no way related to the fact that I’m a bit cranky as a result of the Red Sox losing last night.
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