Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > DVD Discussions > International DVD Talk
Reload this Page >

Question about Pal vs. NTSC

International DVD Talk Intl. DVDs, Region Free Players, RCE, Hong Kong DVDs & More

Question about Pal vs. NTSC

Old 08-19-04, 10:51 PM
  #1  
DVD Talk Special Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 1,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Question about Pal vs. NTSC

I tried to do a search on this, but came away with way too many eroneous threads.

I'm looking to buy Shaun of the Dead. This was filmed in the UK, so it would make sense that it was filmed in PAL.

I'd prefer to have an NTSC version of the movie to have the correct sound. Speed up doesn't really bother me, but the sound does. The only PAL movie I have, Lost Highway R2 German, the sound seemed off by an octave or 2.

Now with this being filmed in PAL, would the Sound be off if I got a dvd in NTSC since it's being converted from PAL already? Does it have to do with how the sound was transferred?

I would guess that it'd be determined by the source used by the dvd authors, but I'm not sure.
Old 08-20-04, 02:27 AM
  #2  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 23,458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"off by an octave" would make them all sound like chipmunks.

PAL and NTSC are television standards - the movie was filmed in 35mm (I assume) which is 24 frames per second. PAL is 25 frames per second and NTSC is 30 frames per second. When film is transferred to television presentation, there is no change in speed. The speed up is because of the fps difference between PAL and NTSC and is just the nature of the conversion. Here's a link that'll explain it all in better detail:

http://www.extron.com/technology/arc...&version=print
Old 08-20-04, 02:28 AM
  #3  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 23,458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
To answer your question - yes, there will be a bit of speedup. Though you may not notice it since some movies are more obvious than others. I have quite a few PAL dvds and some I notice and others I don't - Trainspotting I notice bigtime, but Drive I don't.
Old 08-20-04, 07:14 AM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Sweden
Posts: 653
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not neccesarily. Alot of European films are shot in 25 frames/second, to make the transfer to video easier. The sound in theaters is then pitched up, while the video sound is as it should be.
Old 08-20-04, 08:39 AM
  #5  
Cool New Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Yocke
Not neccesarily. Alot of European films are shot in 25 frames/second, to make the transfer to video easier. The sound in theaters is then pitched up, while the video sound is as it should be.
Yocke, can produce anything to back up your claim that 'a lot' of theatrical films are shot and projected at 25 fps in Europe?

I'm also European, and this is news to me.
Old 08-20-04, 06:13 PM
  #6  
DVD Talk Special Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 1,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I understand the speed up and why it happens. The sound is also converted and 4% faster to compensate for the video.

I guess saying that the sound was off by an octave was wrong, but it did sound off a little bit off.
Old 08-23-04, 12:29 PM
  #7  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah - USA
Posts: 5,196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Yocke
Not neccesarily. Alot of European films are shot in 25 frames/second, to make the transfer to video easier. The sound in theaters is then pitched up, while the video sound is as it should be.
...erm... no... (unless you are talking about specifically made-for-TV movies, which are generally not shown in theaters)...

...of course I could be wrong - as I often am - but can you give even ONE genuine example of a European -theatrically released!!!- film that was made that way...?... the only 'movie' that I can think of offhand might be "Das Boot" - which was originally made as a TV series - come to think of it, that goes for Ingmar Bergman's "Fanny And Alexander", too... still, I gues that at least the latter was filmed at 'normal' (24fps) speed...

...remember that 99.990426% of Europeans (and Russians, and South Africans, and Australians, and New Zealanders, and Malaysians, and Indonesians, and people in India, and...) wouldn't know the difference if it bit them in the arse...

. . . . . .

Last edited by Hendrik; 08-23-04 at 01:55 PM.
Old 08-23-04, 02:31 PM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Sweden
Posts: 653
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I don't have any hard evidence to back my claims, exept for postings by a Swedish director on a Swedish message board. He used to work as a camera operator, and knows several people in the industry. He claims that nearly all films in Europe are shot in 25 fps nowadays to make the conversion to video simpler.
Old 08-23-04, 03:19 PM
  #9  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah - USA
Posts: 5,196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
...well... which Swedish director was that then...?...

...btw, there's nothing difficult about converting a 24fps movie to 25fps PAL video... I would think that converting a 24fps movie to 30fps NTSC video would be a lot more difficult... but hey! what do I know...?...

. . . . . .
Old 08-23-04, 04:11 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Sweden
Posts: 653
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
His name is Martin Munthe. Not an acclaimed director by any means, but he has been in the business for quite a while (he used to be a video director) and he knows his stuff.

No converting a 24 fps film to PAL isn't hard, but converting 25 fps is even easier.
Old 08-23-04, 04:21 PM
  #11  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 23,458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Beverly Hills 90210 was one of many television shows filmed in 16mm at 24fps. It will sound the same if aired in the UK on PAL sets as it does when it is aired in the US. The only time there would be speed-up issues are when you convert a PAL signal to NTSC. It doesn't matter what format something is, when it is mastered to a DVD, it is either PAL or NTSC (or secam or whatever). I doubt they film movies in europe at 25 fps because of PAL... converting to television whether PAL or NTSC takes the same work regardless of the FPS of the original film. PAL and NTSC rates are more of a refresh rate than a frame per second like with actual film.
Old 08-23-04, 05:34 PM
  #12  
DVD Talk Hero
 
slop101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: So. Cal.
Posts: 41,301
Received 67 Likes on 53 Posts
Some PAL dvds have pitch-correction to compensate for the sound speed-up. The LOTR EEs are examples of this. Though, very few other PAL discs have this.
Old 08-23-04, 06:20 PM
  #13  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 7,337
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally posted by slop101
Some PAL dvds have pitch-correction to compensate for the sound speed-up. The LOTR EEs are examples of this. Though, very few other PAL discs have this.
I have actually heard of cases at my company where they have pitch-corrected one or more of the lead actors, but not all of the dialogue in the movie in attempts to save costs.
Old 08-24-04, 11:56 AM
  #14  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Boston
Posts: 11,296
Received 30 Likes on 24 Posts
Originally posted by Trigger
Beverly Hills 90210 was one of many television shows filmed in 16mm at 24fps. It will sound the same if aired in the UK on PAL sets as it does when it is aired in the US. The only time there would be speed-up issues are when you convert a PAL signal to NTSC.
Trigger, you're way off here. The 4% speedup has nothing to do with converting PAL to NTSC. It has to do with converting film (24fps) to PAL (25fps). Anytime a 24fps film source is transferred to PAL, there will be a speedup.

Converting PAL to NTSC is done through a frame pull-down procedure and does not result in any speed or pitch changes from the original PAL. A PAL disc converted to NTSC still runs exactly as fast as it would on a PAL TV (i.e. 4% faster than film).
Old 08-25-04, 04:59 PM
  #15  
Needs to contact an admin about multiple accounts
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,830
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Josh Z
Trigger, you're way off here. The 4% speedup has nothing to do with converting PAL to NTSC. It has to do with converting film (24fps) to PAL (25fps). Anytime a 24fps film source is transferred to PAL, there will be a speedup.

Converting PAL to NTSC is done through a frame pull-down procedure and does not result in any speed or pitch changes from the original PAL. A PAL disc converted to NTSC still runs exactly as fast as it would on a PAL TV (i.e. 4% faster than film).
what he said!
Old 08-25-04, 08:11 PM
  #16  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: At the 2.20 Aspect Ratio
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Shaun of the Dead is coming out theatrically in the US in the next few weeks, a NTSC DVD would probably be out in early 05... just wait, and avoid any psychosomatic sense of disgruntlement from buying a PAL disc that's going to be sped up for NTSC. Or buy a PAL plamsa monitor and avoid the problem all together.
Old 08-26-04, 10:11 AM
  #17  
DVD Talk Hero
 
slop101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: So. Cal.
Posts: 41,301
Received 67 Likes on 53 Posts
Originally posted by Chuck Tatum
Shaun of the Dead is coming out theatrically in the US in the next few weeks, a NTSC DVD would probably be out in early 05... just wait, and avoid any psychosomatic sense of disgruntlement from buying a PAL disc that's going to be sped up for NTSC. Or buy a PAL plamsa monitor and avoid the problem all together.
Or just get the NTSC dvd from Hong Kong that comes out next week.
Old 08-26-04, 11:42 AM
  #18  
DVD Talk Reviewer
 
pro-bassoonist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Blu-ray.com
Posts: 10,380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Peep
I have actually heard of cases at my company where they have pitch-corrected one or more of the lead actors, but not all of the dialogue in the movie in attempts to save costs.

You do realize that what you are saying is impossible. How would you "correct" a two side dialog where only ONE of the actors is pitch-corrected. Imagine a dialog where they argue and happen to have their voices on top of each other. Having been working in the business for quite some time I would love to hear how you would keep the original speed of "frame reproduction" and correct only a segment of it?

Pro-B
Old 08-26-04, 12:40 PM
  #19  
DVD Talk Hero
 
slop101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: So. Cal.
Posts: 41,301
Received 67 Likes on 53 Posts
^ that might be possible if the dialogue is looped and they have acess to the separate dialogue tracks, but, yeah, otherwise it'd be impossible.
Old 08-26-04, 01:07 PM
  #20  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Boston
Posts: 11,296
Received 30 Likes on 24 Posts
Originally posted by Chuck Tatum
Shaun of the Dead is coming out theatrically in the US in the next few weeks, a NTSC DVD would probably be out in early 05... just wait, and avoid any psychosomatic sense of disgruntlement from buying a PAL disc that's going to be sped up for NTSC. Or buy a PAL plamsa monitor and avoid the problem all together.
Chuck, I suggest you read my post which is two above yours. PAL always runs fast, even on a PAL monitor. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the conversion to NTSC.

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.