digitalfreaknyc

Hey all,

Just wondering if anyone has a review of the recently released Special Edition of Misery in Japan? I'd love to hear about the extras and if it's worth a purchase. Doesn't seem like it's coming to R1 any time soon.

Lucas

Just over the water from Japan you have the Australian version 2nd review 3rd review

Much cheaper too.

I recently watched this after a break of 10 years -and it's better than ever. Caan and Bates are wonderful.

digitalfreaknyc

yes...much cheaper...

but also sped up

I'm sort of notorious for HATING HATING HATING PAL speed up.

I'll pay more to have it at the right speed.

Thanks for the links!

Lucas

I've been buying DVDs for 5 years and have never seen this 'sped up' technical claim.

digitalfreaknyc

It's not a claim. It's a fact.

pro-bassoonist

I believe that Lucas was only trying to assist you..that's all.

Lucas,
Though I disagree with the way Digitalfreaknyc replied to your post I also believe that there is a bit of a difference. This topic has been discussed a number of times so I shall not delve into it again.

I believe that if you watch a movie in your native language in both PAL and NTSC formats you shall notice a great deal of difference in the "obertone" qualities of the voice. I dont know how else to explain this but with the above musical term (perhaps because I am a professional artist).
I recently obtained the R4 Trainspotting, which is anamorphic, and YES I could tell that DM's voice is a bit higher in pitch. This could be obvious to you only if you have seen a movie a number of times and therefore you know the intonation of the speaker. This has nothing to do with the above statement pointing to the "right format"...whatever this ridiculous statement is suppose to mean. I still own a number of discs that are "spoken" in English and much better than their R1 counterparts.

***
PAL discs I suppose are a perfect option for foreign movies (non-Anglo productions) where it is virtually impossible to tell the difference as the "obertones" and pitch qualities that one would otherwise experience are not an issue (except if you were raised speaking more than one language.....hint??!!).
With this said...95% of my PAL discs are French/Italian/German movies.

digitalfreaknyc

What exactly did you disagree with? The part where I THANKED him for the links? Where exactly did i NOT acknowledge his assistance?

Please tell me.

pro-bassoonist

I disagree that there is a "right speed"...as it is implied that there is a "wrong one" as well.

Besides the "argument" you are stating could be looked at the other way around as well.....by the same token, could NTSC be "slowed-down" in the eyes of many R2 collectors?

digitalfreaknyc

It'll be slowed down to R2 collectors but NTSC will ALWAYS be the speed that it was shot at and the speed the actors played it at. As an actor and as someone with a voice, I like it the way it is.

Thus, if the movie originated here, it will always be right in NTSC. It's pretty black and white, if you ask me.


This is where you say "oh yeah? well PAL has more lines of resolution!" And on and on....

pro-bassoonist

no...this is where I say that not all film products are shot in NTSC...(TV film products could be shot in PAL as well)....

If you choose to watch only NTSC products shot in the States then that is another issue (or bias shall I say).
(obvious example: many classic Russian movies were NOT shot in NTSC....but you're probably not interested in them anyway...same as Croatian films, same as older Hungarian films, same as many Bulgarian films...in principle...many Central/Eastern European films that will never make it to the US...for whatever reasons).

let's just not argue about it as this topic is too worn out!

***
For the record I have been reading your posts about HK DTS versions of "such and such" movie and I never wanted to mention this to you because I dont want to argue about this...but as Hendrik once pointed out...many times these DTS tracks are not even "real". They are just encoded signals that will force your receiver to display DTS but the fact of the matter is that you are not even close to having the same sound quality. Often you only get the so-called "enhanced sound frequency effect"- where certain aspects of the sound are being modified for whatever reasons. We (classical musicians) often do that to "expunge" hissing from woodwind instruments, and even undesired vibrato effects which opera singers could have for example during stage performance.

....and so on....

Lucas

Do you know when I touch a DVD (NTSC or PAL) I get molecules on my fingers? I can't wash them off either and they'll be there for a very long time and will enter my blood stream too.

Now, OK, I can't see them there but they ARE there.


All this nonsense (which has come from the USA only) about speed up of audio and video tracks is same as those molecules that are on my fingers. People can say what they like and provide no evidence.

I ain't saying there's not a difference with NTSC/PAL I'm saying I can't see it (or discern a difference). I would say I'm an authority on image too as I've been buying NTSC and PAL DVDs for over 5 years and watched them on both PAL and NTSC only CRT TVs, LCD projectors etc.

Nobody has ever been able to show me this speed up either so I guess it's like Jesus -I'm only gonna beleive when he shows himself.

I can say however that the only problem I've ever had with DVDs (or VHS) is NTSC -there's a definite problem with the colo[u]r and this is accepted and of course it can be seen.

I've read all sorts of bull on the Web about speed up but sadly no evidence to back it up. Where's the beef?


Also, if someone will only buy NTSC DVDs you must have a very poor 'collection' of films.

pro-bassoonist

Exactly my point! Thank you Lucas!!

digitalfreaknyc

You can BASH my collection of films all you like...

Or you can check them out as the link is in my sig.

Yes...all of them are american films. Yes, I hate subtitles. Does that mean my movies suck? As I had posted originally, I buy imports FOR extras or DTS. No other reason. Every movie that I want is available in R1 in the format that I want (except for 1). But the quality of the movies is up for ME to decide...not you.

I believe that's a bit off topic for this discussion and i suggest you and pro-whatever discuss it at your leasure via email.

And pro...yes I know about this DTS situation. But since it can't be proven which are real and are fake...i can only go by what is really there which is the DTS label and encoding. If there is such a thing going on, unless someone can discern between what is "real" and "fake" I will stick with what sounds most pleasing to my ears and I DO hear a difference.

Bottom line: these movies originated in NTSC and until HDTV and HD-DVD comes around...that will be the best way (in terms of quality AND original speed) to view AMERICAN movies.

Lucas

We in Europe have had NTSC/PAL conversion on home video equipment for 20 years. That means we're best placed to comment on converted and non-converted NTSC/PAL images. It's normal in the UK (and France, Germany etc) to have a video recorder that does NTSC and PAL or SECAM.


My PAL Toshiba player outputs NTSC material in pure NTSC as standard -ie my TV accepts pure NTSC (as you guys get in North America). Therefore I get the best of both worlds.

As for in-player conversion that can be problematic and I'd guess the cheaper the player the poorer the conversion. However, there are several UK models that do NTSC to PAL50 conversion and they do it very well.

I think the problem is you guys are behind in conversion technology and when you do see PAL you're maybe not seeing it as it should be seen (on a PAL TV).

digitalfreaknyc

I DO believe that the question wasn't PAL's video quality but it's AUDIO quality...which is a PROVEN FACT TO BE SPED UP BY 4%


Jeez...you want to keep arguing with facts???

Lucas

You can BASH my collection of films all you like...


Alas, that wasn't my point -and the fact you think it was kills this debate.


Yes...all of them are american films.

Don't be silly. Many of those are not. I notice you own the PAL Region 4 Frantic. Why's that, then? It's worth noting the comments here at the bottom of the page about NTSC. I'm guessing that's why you went to the bother of importing this French film.

Lucas

I DO believe that the question wasn't PAL's video quality but it's AUDIO quality...which is a PROVEN FACT TO BE SPED UP BY 4%

Jeez...you want to keep arguing with facts???


There was no 'question' and you provided no facts. I asked you to provide evidence of the speed up. You never mentioned audio and said in your first post:
"I'm sort of notorious for HATING HATING HATING PAL speed up. "


You also said: "It's not a claim. It's a fact."

Where's the beef? Just how bad is the audio track on your Region 4 PAL Frantic and why did you bother buying it then and what is your AV equipment and how's it set up?

Those are questions not facts -I asked you to provide answers. Whether those answers are 'facts' that's another matter.

digitalfreaknyc

Again...i said I own 1 movie that is from another region that i can't get here. That is Frantic. The reason WHY I own it is because it is not available in NTSC in widescreen and never has been. I'm also a HUGE harrison ford fan in case you haven't noticed and own all of his movies on DVD.

And FYI...it's directed by a French director and is set in France but is most certainly NOT a french film.


And because you APPARENTLY can't do the research yourself...

DVD Pal {Mpeg2 720x576 25fps 48,000hz} > DVD NTSC {Mpeg2 720X480 29.97fps 48,000hrz}

Is there any other information you'd like?

And what I have for a set-up has NOTHING to do with the fact that PAL will always be sped up unless they make a machine which will slow it down....which apparently one of the new ones can.

Lucas

Again...i said I own 1 movie that is from another region that i can't get here. That is Frantic.

So the audio isn't that bad. How bad is it though and did you compare it with the NTSC DVD? How did you measure the audio speed?


And FYI...it's directed by a French director and is set in France but is most certainly NOT a french film.

It's produced in France (as many of your so called 'American films' are produced in Britain) and that means those coutries lay claim to the production. That's usual (just ask Steven Spielberg or George Lucas).


And because you APPARENTLY can't do the research yourself...

[copy and pasted technical babble removed]

I'm not interested in figures -I'm interested in you proving your experience and how you discerned that experience. No doubt you could show me research proving tobacco doesn't cause cancer -doesn't mean it's true.


Is there any other information you'd like?

I wasn't looking for information -I was looking for you to provide answers of your experience and provide evidence. You've not done that therefore I assume you're wrong. If you're correct then how many PAL DVDs have you watched and how bad was the audio? Was every PAL DVD bad?


And what I have for a set-up has NOTHING to do with the fact that PAL will always be sped up

I'm back to my original post. I've been buying DVDs for over 5 years and I own lots of PAL discs (over 100 -are they all 'sped up'? -How come I can't hear it?) and have never noticed this audio problem. I have also read 100s of disc reviews and never heard of this 'sped up'.

Are you saying that millions of people in Europe and Australia have faulty discs or they're so stupid they can't hear this 'sped up'?

digitalfreaknyc

Again...i'm not arguing with you. You obviously don't want to listen to facts and it shows you know nothing of the origins of PAL nor NTSC.

You want proof. Come to my house and I'll show you. Aside from that I don't have the time or the patience for your babbling.

I'm done posting and I suggest you do the same. Your time would be better spent doing research since you've never heard of PAL speed up before.

Mods, please close this thread. There's nothing else to be said and it has gone WILDLY off topic.

Lucas

Again...i'm not arguing with you. You obviously don't want to listen to facts and it shows you know nothing of the origins of PAL nor NTSC.

You want proof. Come to my house and I'll show you. Aside from that I don't have the time or the patience for your babbling.

I'm done posting and I suggest you do the same. Your time would be better spent doing research since you've never heard of PAL speed up before.






Sounds familiar?

codefree

Talk about being an arrogant *******! Reread the first post, he's specifically asking about the R2 NTSC Japanese version of Misery SE. If you can't be of use, then move along to the next thread!!

pro-bassoonist

I will leave my .02 cents before this thread gets closed.

Digitalfreaknyc (see...it is easy to respect someone's name)!!

First of all I never bashed your collection, I simply stated that you could argue with the fact that if you do not know Chinese and you listen to a Chinese movie then you wont be able to tell a difference. PROVE ME WRONG!

As Lucas stated...throwing around a bunch of digits does not prove your point. YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT inclined to listen to other arguments as well. (I live in the US do you want to come to my house so I show you that there is no difference if you listen to another language).

Last but not least...I NEVER HEARD YOU COMMENTING on the fact that movies ARE NOT ALWAYS produced in PAL. What do you have to say about that...THEY ARE NOT AMERICAN> Pretty lame argument...

NO ONE EVER BASHED YOUR COLLECTION....did anyone even commented on the movies you own....I SAID THAT IT WILL BE QUITE A BIASED approach to watch only NTCS films....its like only eating Chinese food in New York.

....which reminds me that (though I did not want to say this but your blunt comments to me and Lucas are enough of a reason to point it out):

You have the typical arrogant attitude of a NY-er and that self-centered opinion that ONLY what you say is worth listening. Quite sad really....AS THIS FORUM IS TO DISCUSS MOVIES/FILM AND DIFFERENT OPINIONS...

"Pro-whatever"

ps
For the record I do live in America and support our film industry but your immature and AROGANT attitude is what this forum DOES NOT NEED.

codefree

Quote:

ps
For the record I do live in America and support our film industry but your immature and AROGANT attitude is what this forum DOES NOT NEED.

How can you post this **** and then go on later in the thread to say that digitalfreaknyc is immature. Give me a frickin' break! As I said to Lucas, reread the first post in this thread. He specifically wants to know about the R2 Japanese NTSC version of Misery SE.

codefree

Where in Europe are you located? France? The nerve of you to compare a petty argument on DVDs with the behavior of that SOB!