Malafide

I just got back from France where I purchased one DVD in order to see if I could play PAL dvd's on my Samsung 907 dvd player. The player can be made region free using the remote. I got back and put the disk in the player and used the remote to make the player region free. With the player connected to my tv via s-video imputs I was only able to see the picture in black and white. Not bad, but I wanted to see the long version of "Dances with Wolves" in color.

This is when I went on a quest. At first I searched for information concerning my Samsung. I found out it cannot play any PAL dvd's. It doesn't have any converter at all. While on dejanews, I searched for PAL to NTSC and this is where the discovery occurred. It seems that many of the new US television sets with RGB outputs can play both NTSC and PAL output. The person who discovered it was looking at his Sony manual. In the small print, the manual stated that the TV would play PAL using the SCART RGB connections. Thinking I might have found the key, I checked my Phillips. I connected the dvd player to the television throught the RGB connection and color.

I then compared the picture to the picture I got using the region 1 disk on a Pioneer 333. The picture is sharper on the region 2 disk and the region 1 disk looks too red. I did use AVIA to set up the television. There is no problems with jumping or cropping. I am unable to determine if the disk is anamorphic as I cannot read french.

Trigger

So since you've done the research - could you list some links or list the televisions that are PAL compatible? I want to buy a new TV - I want one that will do PAL.

Matt Stevens

Only the very highest end HDTV or Plasma sets have an RGB input, folks.

Hendrik

...ahh... do American TVs, (and/or made-for-USA VCRs, LD players, DVD players) even have SCART connectors??? European LD players, DVD players and VCRs generally have two each, TVs have at least one, more often two, sometimes three. However, I always thought that was strictly a European thingy... (FYI: the connector was launched by the Syndicat des Constructeurs d'Appareils Radiorécepteurs et Téléviseurs - hence SCART... see?!...

http://www.video-demystified.com/mm/...cart/scart.htm

http://www.par.univie.ac.at/~bob/video/scart/scart.html

...just curious, y'know...

. . . . . .

Malafide

My television has RGB inputs and was only $400 at Walmart. It is the Phillips 27" DVD ready television with RGB inputs. You need to either have RGB inputs or a SCART connector.

Based on what I read, in order to play PAL movies in the US the following are necessary. I don't know if they are sufficient, but it was for my system. You need a DVD player that has RGB outputs that you can make region free and a television that has RGB inputs. Based on what I read, you have to connect the DVD player to the TV using component video.

Malafide

One more thing. The posters on dejanews said that the manual for their Sony TV said that they were PAL compatible in the fine print. Will someone with a Wega read their manual and find out if the Wega is PAL compatible?

Matt Stevens

My SOny KV16 is not PAL compatible.

PAL/RGB inputs are very rare in the U.S. I was at Circuit City the other day and they had 3 TV's out of hundreds with one of those inputs and they were both HDTVs.

Trigger

Here's a list of TV sets currently sold in the US that have component video inputs and are between 13 and 36 inches - doesn't look all that rare to me. These all have RGB connections, but that doesn't mean that they all can play PAL. Or can they?

Toshiba 20AF41 $270.00
Panasonic CT-20SX10 $278.00
Toshiba 27A40 $295.00
Panasonic CT-27D11 $300.00
JVC AV-27D302 $301.00
Panasonic CT-27D20 $320.00
Panasonic CT-27D21 $324.00
Toshiba 27A50 $325.00
Sony KV-20S90 $329.00
Philips 27PT31B $333.00
Panasonic CT-27D10 $340.00
Panasonic CT-27D31 $340.00
Philips 27PT41B $341.00
JVC AV-27D502 $358.00
RCA F27689 $359.00
ProScan PS27610 $368.00
Panasonic CT-27D30 $370.00
JVC AV-24F702 $390.00
Toshiba 24AF41 $391.00
Panasonic CT-24SX10 $399.00
Philips 27PT71B $403.00
JVC AV-27D800 $405.00
Panasonic CT-27SF37 $455.00
JVC AV-32230 $470.00
JVC AV-32260 $470.00
Panasonic CT-32D20 $470.00
Toshiba 32A40 $475.00
Toshiba 32A50 $475.00
Panasonic CT-27SX10 $477.00
JVC AV-27D501 $480.00
JVC AV-27F702 $480.00
Sony KV-27FS13 $486.00
JVC AV-32D302 $490.00
Panasonic CT-32D11 $499.00
Panasonic CT-32D30 $500.00
Sony KV-27FS12 $500.00
Panasonic CT-32D10 $510.00
Toshiba 32A60 $520.00
JVC AV-32D800 $550.00
Panasonic CT-32D31 $550.00
RCA F32715 $550.00
Samsung TXK3279 $550.00
Philips 27PT81S $553.00
Philips 32PT71B $555.00
Sony KV-27FS17 $556.00
JVC AV-32D502 $560.00
JVC AV-27F802 $580.00
Sony KV-27FS16 $580.00
Toshiba 32AX60 $585.00
Panasonic CT-36D20 $600.00
Panasonic CT-36D30 $600.00
Philips 32PT41B $600.00
ProScan PS32610 $620.00
Toshiba CZ32V61 $636.00
Sony KV-27FV16 $640.00
Sony KV-27FV17 $643.00
JVC AV-36230 $655.00
Sony KV-32S66 $658.00
Panasonic CT-36D11 $686.00
Philips 27PT91S $698.00
JVC AV-36D302 $720.00
Toshiba 36A40 $720.00
Toshiba 36A50 $720.00
JVC AV-36260 $721.00
Panasonic CT-32SF37 $726.00
Panasonic CT-36D31 $739.00
RCA F36715 $740.00
ProScan PS27810 $760.00
Philips 36PT41B $764.00
Toshiba 36A60 $780.00
JVC AV-36D502 $786.00
Sony KV-32FS13 $788.00
JVC AV-36D501 $789.00
Sony KV-32FS12 $790.00
Philips 36PT71B $796.00
JVC AV-36D201 $800.00
ProScan PS36610 $813.00
Toshiba 36AX60 $828.00
Sony KV-32FS16 $846.00
Sony KV-32FS17 $855.00
Toshiba CN36V51 $865.00
Philips 32PT81S $870.00
ProScan PS36710 $879.00
Samsung TSK2792F (EDTV Monitor) $885.00
Sony KV-32FV16 $950.00
Sony KV-35S66 $975.00
Sony KV-32FV26 $980.00
Sony KV-32FV27 $988.00
Samsung TSL2795HF $990.00
RCA MM32110 $996.00
Panasonic CT-32XF56 (EDTV Monitor) $999.00
ProScan PS32810 $1,080.00
Philips 32PT91S $1,093.00
Samsung TSK3292F (EDTV Monitor) $1,100.00
Sony KV-36FS12 $1,100.00
RCA MM36100 $1,105.00
Sampo SME-32HD5 $1,162.00
Panasonic CT-36SX31 $1,176.00
RCA MM36110 $1,200.00
Sony KV-36FS13 $1,200.00
Panasonic CT-36SF37 $1,230.00
Panasonic CT-32HX40 $1,247.00
Sony KV-36FS16 $1,250.00
Sony KV-36FV16 $1,280.00
Panasonic CT-32HX41 $1,286.00
Sony KV-36FS17 $1,300.00
Sony KV-36FV26 $1,350.00
Samsung TSL3295HF $1,355.00
Sony KV-36FV27 $1,380.00
Sony KV-36FV15 $1,444.00
Sony KV-32XBR400 $1,450.00
Hitachi 36SDX88B $1,500.00
Sony KV-32HS20 $1,550.00
Samsung TSK3092WF (EDTV Monitor) $1,600.00
Panasonic CT-36HX40 $1,618.00
Toshiba CN36X81 $1,630.00
Panasonic CT-36HX41 $1,670.00
Toshiba 36HF70 $1,750.00
Sony KV-36XBR400 $1,829.00
Sony KV-36HS20 $1,876.00
Samsung TSL3095WFH (Widescreen) $1,900.00
Philips 30PW9815 (Widescreen) $1,924.00
RCA F38310 (Widescreen) $2,074.00
ProScan PS38000 (Widescreen) $2,296.00
Sampo SME-34WHD5 (Widescreen) $2,300.00
Toshiba CW34X92 (Widescreen) $2,350.00
Panasonic CT-34WX50 (Widescreen) $2,469.00
Philips 34PW9815 (Widescreen) $2,676.00
ProScan PS34000 $2,716.00

Trigger

Can anyone confirm this? I want to get the Toshiba 27A41. It claims to have 600 lines of horizontal resolution and it has the Colorstream inputs. I have a region free Toshiba 2109 player and I want to make sure it'll play my PAL DVDs before I plunk down the cash for it. I know my player will output a PAL signal.

What about the US RGB 50hz and the UK RGB 60hz? Doesn't make a difference?

Matt Stevens

Trigger, RGB and Component are not the same thing! RGB is also called VGA and is the standard for computer monitors.

Component (Y Pb Pr) is completely different and uses three cables. You can hook RGB/VGA into Component, but only with a converter (average pricefor a good one, $135 to $200).

Malafide

DVD's are recorded in YCrCb (component) video and not either NTCS or PAL. They are converted in the player to composite video (PAL or NTSC). Thus I believe connecting the dvd player to the television using a component video should allow someone to bypass the PAL or NTSC formatting.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=PA...tro.nospam.com

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=PA...%40electro.com

Matt Stevens

That is simply not true. I wish it were, because my life would be a lot easier. My TV has component Video inputs and it DOES NOT play PAL. I have brought my hacked Toshiba, which can play PAL DVDs (no conversion), and tried it on every TV out there and the only one that worked was a Multi-standard set.

There is a reason for the Multi-standard line. There is a reason sets in Europe are all Multi-standard.

Some Plasma and High End HDTV's have a component AND RGB/VGA input, so you can hook up a HTPC (the PC does the conversion) or a player such as the SKYWORTH, but the SKYWORTH does not CONVERT to PAL and the TV won't either.

Some TV's have the ability to do the 60hz needed, but still cannot display he PAL image properly. The new 47" Panasonic HDTV (the set I will have next week to replace my Wega) can display PAL 60hz, but the image is not correct. Some of the image is cut off and the rest is stretched.

Go to avsforum.com and do some research. You MUST have a MULTI-STANDARD TV to display PAL unless the player is doing the actual conversion. The APEX/SAMPO/RAITE/SHINCO/DIGITRON line of layers convert, but badly.

The SKYWORTH will play all regions and the quality is outstanding. It will also Output PAL, but it will NOT convert it to NTSC.

The MALATA will play all regions AND CONVERT in high quality, with no loss in resolution. It's the first of its kind (more will follow, I'm sure).

Trigger

Well I can't find ANY sets with SCART connections on the back. Did you perhaps buy the set in a WalMart in Europe or something?

codefree

http://www.mindlogic.com/Prod_MSTV.shtml

Aghama

That's a great page, codefree. That's a pretty impressive price hike for multi-system TV's, though.

Trigger

From Toshiba's website FAQ:

What is the ColorStream Input feature on Toshiba televisions??

This feature allows the connection of equipment that provides a ColorStream output such as our Toshiba DVD players. When this input is used, it bypasses the comb filter or NTSC decoder, maintaining the signals purity and definition.


So - doesn't that mean that it could play PAL DVDs? If not, WHY NOT? edit - Plus there are 600 horizontal lines of resolution... isn't that enough? Is the only setback the fact that one is 60hz and the other is 50hz?

Matt Stevens

The S-Video bypasses the comb filter too. The hertz issue is what causes the problem, as do the extra scan lines.

Malafide

I give up. There is no possible way in which my equipment will work based your replies to my suggestions. I don't know why it works and I was trying to come up with reasonable expainations. Because if we can, than many more people could get PAL without an expensive purchase.

For the record, I have a Phillips DVD Ready TV model 27PS55S (it has a 2 line comb filter) that was purchased at Walmart for $400. My DVD player is a Samsung 907 (not 709 or 909) that is connected via a YPrPb connection to the television. With this combination I am able to get perfect output on a PAL encoded DVD.

If anyone can explain why this work, it will help many people on this page.

Matt Stevens

Malafide, My best friend has that exact same set! He just bought it at Costco last week ($289). I will bring my Toshiba SD1600 over to his place this weekend and try some PAL DVDs on it. What specific PAL DVDs have you played? Any from Hong Kong Legends?

It may be that... A: That set can handle the frequency of PAL or... B: Your DVD player can somehow output it in a frequency that the TV understands.

But if either is the case, it's sheer luck. Component on NTSC = NTS only, unless something else in the set is more along the lines of a multi-standard set.

And yes, I would very much like an inexpensive solution. For those of you who do not have a DVD player yet or own an APEX like model, this MALATA is the inexpensive solution.

Under $300 will get you what you need.

Trigger

I think one of us should take our region free DVD player over to Best Buy and see if they'll let us test out our theory and make not of which TVs it works on... I have a feeling if it's the television and not that specific DVD player, then we might be on to something. I don't have a TV with colorstream inputs and I don't have a component cable either, but if one of you does...

dvd-fisherman

Sorry to be stupid, but is RGB the same as PAL? I thought RGB was similar to VGA, just another computer format for resolution and not used on TV resolution.