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-   -   Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut" (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/hd-talk/647129-apocalypse-now-remastered-4k-final-cut.html)

stvn1974 08-16-19 01:00 PM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
Originally Posted by Why So Blu? (Post 13594274)
I paid $11 -- but it's mainly because I want to see the film on the big screen. I have the discs ordered, but I want the grand experience first.
I get that. It also helps if you like the added stuff in Redux. There is another showing this Sunday afternoon here but it is still $15 and I am 50/50 on it at the moment.

Josh Z 08-16-19 01:41 PM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
Originally Posted by Why So Blu? (Post 13594264)
True. I think it's a 20-minute overall trim, though.
Isn't the plantation scene 30 minutes long? It sure felt like it. Cutting 20 out of it would make a big improvement. :)

Hazel Motes 08-17-19 04:03 AM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
Originally Posted by Josh Z (Post 13594207)
The movie is very old and very famous, so I don't think we need to worry about spoilers.

I'm guessing he cut the plantation scene and kept the Playmates scene? Is that what you're saying?
he put in a version of the plantation scene. I get a lot of people don't seem to like it. I'm just not one of those people.

Hazel Motes 08-17-19 04:06 AM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
Originally Posted by stvn1974 (Post 13594265)
I don't like the Redux cut because the plantation scene is mind numbing boring and I hate the Kilgore begging for his surfboard back stuff. I was still curious about the seeing the Final Cut in the theater last night but for not for $15 when I can get the 4K UHD for $22 in a few weeks.

Fair enough. Myself, if I had to choose between owning the set or getting to see it in all its glory in on a giant IMAX screen, it would be a tough choice.

T-bone22 08-17-19 11:39 AM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
Details of the Final Cut here.

melasnus 08-17-19 01:08 PM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
Originally Posted by T-bone22 (Post 13594596)
Details of the Final Cut here.
I agree with the Reviewer whole heartedly regarding the best cuts/cutting for the movie:
  • The character of Willard worked best when he was an opaque figure who does not demonstrate much emotion. By including the mischievous theft of the surfboard, Coppola introduces a "regular guy" element to his character that we don't see previous to this scene or afterward. It also doesn't add anything to the plot. The point seems to be that Willard is at heart much like any other soldier when, in fact, the film takes pains to demonstrate that he is anything but.
  • Cutting the pointless sexual encounters with the Playboy bunnies is a welcome decision by Coppola. I recall it being quite boring.
  • The retention of the French plantation scene is a mistake, as it comes out of nowhere and throws the main story line off course. The dinner conversation with the impassioned family patriarch goes on interminably and will only be of interest to those with a passion for studying Franco-Vietnamese political relationships of the era. The scene in which Willard is seduced is also out-of-kilter and doesn't fit the character or narrative at all. What does work is the early encounter with the French paramilitaries who afford the character of Clean a dignified soldier's funeral. Coppola should have left the encounter there and resumed the search for Kurtz.
  • I believe it was a mistake not to keep the extra scene of Kurtz explaining his motives to Willard. It gave greater context to his character and helped explain his actions. Given how limited Marlon Brando's on-screen time is, it's puzzling that Coppola would revert to sacrificing this scene.
  • The film eliminates the bombing of Kurtz's compound over the final credits, thus reverting back to the original version of the film that lacked credits and left unclear the fate of Kurtz's kingdom. However, it was Coppola's original intention to show the kingdom being bombed and he actually filmed a spectacular sequence depicting this, only some of which was used in the film's end credits. "Final Cut" presents a more traditional credits roll over a simple black background.

DVD Polizei 08-19-19 08:15 PM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
  • The retention of the French plantation scene is a mistake, as it comes out of nowhere and throws the main story line off course. The dinner conversation with the impassioned family patriarch goes on interminably and will only be of interest to those with a passion for studying Franco-Vietnamese political relationships of the era. The scene in which Willard is seduced is also out-of-kilter and doesn't fit the character or narrative at all. What does work is the early encounter with the French paramilitaries who afford the character of Clean a dignified soldier's funeral. Coppola should have left the encounter there and resumed the search for Kurtz.
  • I believe it was a mistake not to keep the extra scene of Kurtz explaining his motives to Willard. It gave greater context to his character and helped explain his actions. Given how limited Marlon Brando's on-screen time is, it's puzzling that Coppola would revert to sacrificing this scene.
First paragraph I disagree, second point, I do agree, however.

Let me explain why I disagree with the first paragraph.

The French plantation scene, imo, was meant to convey the exploitation they had over the area. Living off of the land, using the locals, etc. The French were in their own time, somehow distant and even purposely separated from what was going on around them. Imperialism at its finest. Stuck in time. Exploiting those around you to benefit a small amount of Elitists who think they know better. The French were purposely oblivious to what they were doing to others, all in a time of extreme conflict and countless deaths.

Willard comes into the situation, knowing full-well what he's up against after he leaves that time-stopped plantation. It's a scene that is somewhat ripped from old philosophical debates and imagery, thousands of years old, but brought into common day environments. But he's complacent being there as it is his last moment of peace. A moment of peace at the expense of others before he does some unthinkable things he knows he will have to do.

Like any Director, sometimes they forget why they included what they did and why they cut what they did.

melasnus 08-20-19 01:44 AM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei (Post 13595326)
First paragraph I disagree, second point, I do agree, however.

Let me explain why I disagree with the first paragraph.

The French plantation scene, imo, was meant to convey the exploitation they had over the area. Living off of the land, using the locals, etc. The French were in their own time, somehow distant and even purposely separated from what was going on around them. Imperialism at its finest. Stuck in time. Exploiting those around you to benefit a small amount of Elitists who think they know better. The French were purposely oblivious to what they were doing to others, all in a time of extreme conflict and countless deaths.

Willard comes into the situation, knowing full-well what he's up against after he leaves that time-stopped plantation. It's a scene that is somewhat ripped from old philosophical debates and imagery, thousands of years old, but brought into common day environments. But he's complacent being there as it is his last moment of peace. A moment of peace at the expense of others before he does some unthinkable things he knows he will have to do.

Like any Director, sometimes they forget why they included what they did and why they cut what they did.
The first sentence says it all: "The retention of the French plantation scene is a mistake, as it comes out of nowhere and throws the main story line off course."
I couldn't agree more.

If you were to ask the everyday person about the VN war, the French Connection (;)) wouldn't come up.
Few know about it and even fewer would know it in any depth.

The plot of the movie is all about getting Willard face-to-face with Kurtz.
The plantation isn't the point or the destination of his journey...just a sideshow interrupting the rhythm of the film.
It isn't the Heart of Darkness.

Why So Blu? 08-20-19 03:03 AM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
I just came back from this and it's still a goddamn masterpiece. Shit, rejoice assholes, we have three fucking versions, because Coppola OWNS the fucking film outright. A friend of mine went with me and he had never seen the film before and said it was great. Minus credits, this final cut runs just under 3 hours. It's like 2hrs and 55-59 minutes or so.

Personally, I think the Redux is still the best, but this one is fine, too. I love the French plantation scene -- there's so much subtext in it - now, in this final cut version, it almost plays out in a dream, because did it really happen or was it indeed a dream? It's more ethereal.

I am glad I saw it on the big screen and the 4K/BD is released in a week, so that's a double whammy right there.

stvn1974 08-20-19 11:12 AM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
I need to order this from Best Buy because my amazon order still shows that they don't have a delivery date for my order placed the moment it went up for preorder. Not really sure why I am surprised by this.

DVD Polizei 08-20-19 11:39 AM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
Originally Posted by melasnus (Post 13595390)
The first sentence says it all: "The retention of the French plantation scene is a mistake, as it comes out of nowhere and throws the main story line off course."
I couldn't agree more.

If you were to ask the everyday person about the VN war, the French Connection (;)) wouldn't come up.
Few know about it and even fewer would know it in any depth.

The plot of the movie is all about getting Willard face-to-face with Kurtz.
The plantation isn't the point or the destination of his journey...just a sideshow interrupting the rhythm of the film.
It isn't the Heart of Darkness.
The bolded part I entirely disagree with, and it's also rather simplistic because without even seeing the movie you know what's going to happen, which is, Willard vs. Kurtz. So yeah, no-brainer.

Explain why the scene, the longest in the entire movie by the way, is a sideshow interruption.

And once again, I reiterate:

Gone from the "Redux" version is a scene of the soldiers having a dalliance with some Playboy bunnies who are there for the infamous USO stage show that almost turns into a massive case of sexual assault
The ONLY reason this was taken out was because Coppola didn't want to be boycotted and called names, which would hurt sales. Period. As if sexual assault never happened over there. :lol:

Apocalypse Now was about the harsh realities of the war. Now it's being watered down to Apocalypse Not Really.

The real bunnies are the ones who don't want the scenes viewed.

This is the problem when making new transfers decades after a film has been released. Society doesn't look well on many movies which have controversial elements, and might even want them stricken from the public's knowledge if possible.

If you know the film, know about the war, and know the history, you'll come to understand that Willard killing Kurtz was actually anti-climactic. Killing Kurtz was killing a part of Willard--and Willard knew this. Kurtz seems to imply it subtly.

stvn1974 08-20-19 11:59 AM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
I agree on the the reason the Playboy bunnies scene was removed and it is really quite sad that it has come to this. I guess if they would have been Vietnamese women that were being assaulted it would have been left in.

DVD Polizei 08-20-19 12:04 PM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
Here's more on Coppola's thought process, views of the war over time, etc, fwiw, a good read:

https://www.apnews.com/3957a5e9e9bb440f83720f08bf3a8bc1

Coppola: The only reason I’m in a position to go back and evaluate some of these decisions is because I own the film, which is the same reason George Lucas looks at some of his movies. Obviously most filmmakers don’t own their films and would not be permitted to change a cut. But the version that you open with, you’re very concerned that it will have some longevity. And so you may do things for the opening that you’d rather not do but you don’t want to risk a negative reception because a film that opens with a negative reception is dead.
And what struck me most was:

Coppola: We know what brings happiness. But what are you going to do when every nation in the world is pointing its main objective toward something that does not add up?
Which can be applied to wars even today. Like Willard and Kurtz, they entered the war somewhat normal but the war made them crazy and they saw complete chaos and no reasoning behind the war they fought. They had to make things "normal" in an abnormal environment.

Why So Blu? 08-20-19 01:28 PM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei (Post 13595536)
The bolded part I entirely disagree with, and it's also rather simplistic because without even seeing the movie you know what's going to happen, which is, Willard vs. Kurtz. So yeah, no-brainer.

Explain why the scene, the longest in the entire movie by the way, is a sideshow interruption.

And once again, I reiterate:



The ONLY reason this was taken out was because Coppola didn't want to be boycotted and called names, which would hurt sales. Period. As if sexual assault never happened over there. :lol:

Apocalypse Now was about the harsh realities of the war. Now it's being watered down to Apocalypse Not Really.

The real bunnies are the ones who don't want the scenes viewed.

This is the problem when making new transfers decades after a film has been released. Society doesn't look well on many movies which have controversial elements, and might even want them stricken from the public's knowledge if possible.

If you know the film, know about the war, and know the history, you'll come to understand that Willard killing Kurtz was actually anti-climactic. Killing Kurtz was killing a part of Willard--and Willard knew this. Kurtz seems to imply it subtly.
And if Willard wanted, he could have stayed and become the new Kurtz. Hell, that's also implied when the tribe and soldiers throw down their arms and kneel before him.

Josh Z 08-20-19 01:50 PM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei (Post 13595536)
The ONLY reason this was taken out was because Coppola didn't want to be boycotted and called names, which would hurt sales. Period. As if sexual assault never happened over there. :lol:

Apocalypse Now was about the harsh realities of the war. Now it's being watered down to Apocalypse Not Really.

The real bunnies are the ones who don't want the scenes viewed.

This is the problem when making new transfers decades after a film has been released. Society doesn't look well on many movies which have controversial elements, and might even want them stricken from the public's knowledge if possible.
Originally Posted by stvn1974 (Post 13595551)
I agree on the the reason the Playboy bunnies scene was removed and it is really quite sad that it has come to this. I guess if they would have been Vietnamese women that were being assaulted it would have been left in.
The two of you seem to be forgetting that the second Playmates scene was not in the original version of the movie.

Or is it your contention that 1979 Francis Coppola was an SJW snowflake, then he stopped being such a cuck in 2001, but now he's a libtard again? Is that how the logic goes? Please enlighten me.

melasnus 08-20-19 03:57 PM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei (Post 13595536)
The bolded part I entirely disagree with, and it's also rather simplistic because without even seeing the movie you know what's going to happen, which is, Willard vs. Kurtz. So yeah, no-brainer.
Willard was lost in a nightmare...as the first scene shows.
His mission gave him a purpose, which was to find his center again.
If you want to get technical, the movie is about how Willard's external journey influenced his INTERNAL one.
Explain why the scene, the longest in the entire movie by the way, is a sideshow interruption.
Wait...you aren't aware it was cut from the theatrical release for a reason?
Coppola's rage against colonialism doesn't advance the plot one wit.
If you know the film, know about the war, and know the history, you'll come to understand that Willard killing Kurtz was actually anti-climactic.
I'll ignore the condescension and just say the killing moment was the Moment of Truth for Willard.
Throughout his journey he had serious doubts (due to his internal war) he could fulfill his mission.
Killing Kurtz was killing a part of Willard
Nope, it was the LIBERATION of Willard from the MENTAL (cleverly played out in the PHYSICAL world) prison he was in and, eventually, his self-actualization.

Few movies have reached the depths Coppola did here with Apocalypse Now. :)

stvn1974 08-20-19 05:25 PM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
Originally Posted by Josh Z (Post 13595603)
The two of you seem to be forgetting that the second Playmates scene was not in the original version of the movie.

Or is it your contention that 1979 George Lucas was an SJW snowflake, then he stopped being such a cuck in 2001, but now he's a libtard again? Is that how the logic goes? Please enlighten me.
I know it wasn't in the original version but it was put in for Redux and now excised again. My point still stands.

Also, Lucas didn't direct AN or we would get rocks in front of Kurtz and the decapitated head dropped into Willard's lap would have blinked.

MrRound2 08-20-19 08:55 PM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
^^^ :lol:

stvn1974 08-21-19 09:25 AM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
Way to go amazon, I just received a Sep 6 delivery date email. Good thing I ordered it the very second they put it up for preorder.

Adam Tyner 08-21-19 09:37 AM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
Coppola on the removal of that Playmates sequence:

Coppola has cut the medevac sequence for Final Cut. “I felt there was reason to shoot those bizarre little vignettes of those little 18-year-old girls,” he said. “I was trying to show that their being used to titillate people sexually wasn’t a lot different from those 18-year-old boys, [and] the abuse heaped on them when they’re sent to war. But my instinct now tells me that, in the overall continuity of the movie, that scene [doesn’t belong thematically]. It’s included as an extra [on the Blu-ray] if people want to see it.”

Josh Z 08-21-19 10:20 AM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
Originally Posted by stvn1974 (Post 13595756)
Also, Lucas didn't direct AN or we would get rocks in front of Kurtz and the decapitated head dropped into Willard's lap would have blinked.
Obviously a brain fart. I've corrected the post to say Francis Coppola.

Why So Blu? 08-21-19 10:44 AM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
Originally Posted by stvn1974 (Post 13596036)
Way to go amazon, I just received a Sep 6 delivery date email. Good thing I ordered it the very second they put it up for preorder.
Mine is in 8/27. You live in a rural area, though, right? Do you have PRIME shipping?

stvn1974 08-21-19 11:05 AM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
I have Prime but this won't be the first, second or third or to infinity that amazon has missed a release date for a preorder or even two days with Prime two day shipping. I cancelled the order and placed one with Best Buy and they are showing it will be here on Aug 27. If it wasn't for amazon being the only place to get the cat food that my cats like I would have been done with them a long time ago.

Anyway, back to the film. I don't have that great of a set up by my brother's friend has nice theater room so we are going to debut the disc there when I get it. Can't wait.

melasnus 08-21-19 12:25 PM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
Originally Posted by stvn1974 (Post 13596099)
I have Prime but this won't be the first, second or third or to infinity that amazon has missed a release date for a preorder or even two days with Prime two day shipping. I cancelled the order and placed one with Best Buy and they are showing it will be here on Aug 27.
It is strange this happens sometimes.
I don't know the reason, but I wish I did. :confused:

Cartload 08-22-19 05:11 AM
Re: Apocalypse Now - remastered in 4K - "The Final Cut"
 
The Amazon order I placed on July 15th states that will arrive by 8pm on 8/27, so I am not sure how they are allocating which ones get out on time and which ones don't.


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