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Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

Old 02-20-19, 05:01 PM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

Originally Posted by melasnus View Post
If anyone has had freezes or dropouts during streaming, love for the tech goes away quickly.
I have thousands of discs...all alphabetized on shelves that I can reach for and toss in a player in a matter of a few seconds.
No drama with movies on disk.
I can't say that with all of my streaming experiences.
However, I do stream a lot due to some great original content not available on disc.
Digital streaming platforms like VUDU, MA, iTunes, etc., let you alphabetize, as well.
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Old 02-20-19, 05:08 PM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

I think a big plus with optical discs is the predictable nature of them. Nothing is infallible but if a disc has deep scratches, it may skip - you can see it may skip. If the skipping bothers you, buy another one or learn to take care of them. So far with streaming, it's unpredictable. It might glitch, it might not, either way you have no personal control over it.

With news that Ultra-Violet is going under is another cause for concern when it comes to storing anything in the cloud. I already lost about 25 UV codes a couple of years ago when Flixster Canada shut down. They were "free" but it sure doesn't bode well for selling me on cloud service.

If the flakiness of the service doesn't bother you, then it's great. For a lot of people I don't think they want to sign-up for any more services and have their credit card number floating around on dozens of different websites. In addition there's also the hassle of wondering if the various sites will get hacked, checking your credit card statement making sure there's no suspicious activity, remembering more password combinations etc.

There is a simple piece-of-mind when dealing with physical media that you just don't get from streaming.
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Old 02-20-19, 05:51 PM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
I think a big plus with optical discs is the predictable nature of them. Nothing is infallible but if a disc has deep scratches, it may skip - you can see it may skip. If the skipping bothers you, buy another one or learn to take care of them. So far with streaming, it's unpredictable. It might glitch, it might not, either way you have no personal control over it.

With news that Ultra-Violet is going under is another cause for concern when it comes to storing anything in the cloud. I already lost about 25 UV codes a couple of years ago when Flixster Canada shut down. They were "free" but it sure doesn't bode well for selling me on cloud service.

If the flakiness of the service doesn't bother you, then it's great. For a lot of people I don't think they want to sign-up for any more services and have their credit card number floating around on dozens of different websites. In addition there's also the hassle of wondering if the various sites will get hacked, checking your credit card statement making sure there's no suspicious activity, remembering more password combinations etc.

There is a simple piece-of-mind when dealing with physical media that you just don't get from streaming.
You can download movies you own from itunes. So ďstreamingĒ isnít really applicable.
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Old 02-20-19, 06:12 PM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

iTunes prices are $4.99 for a streaming rental or $14.99 to $19.99 for an "owned" download. I can see why the industry wants to go all-digital.
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Old 02-20-19, 06:57 PM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

Originally Posted by Gizmo View Post


bag on streaming all you want,
"bag?" You are mistaken, sir.
but discs can also skip,
I have bought defective disks during the last 30 plus years of collecting no more than 20 times....easily returned for a replacement.
no more have unskippable trailers/commercials
Some like trailers, some don't.
The wife likes to watch 'em...I usually head to my bar for a cold one while they run.
sometimes require updates to play discs
Firmware updates are common for almost all electronic gizmos.
Most players update easily over a home network...some automatically (Oppo).
and donít remember where you left off if you go from living room to bedroom or phone or tablet or computers - among other issues I could also add in.
My Oppos always remember where they left off...days or weeks later.
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Old 02-20-19, 07:21 PM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

Originally Posted by melasnus View Post
My Oppos always remember where they left off...days or weeks later.
He's talking about with streaming you can go anywhere on any device with the app and you can resume where you left off (the portability). You can't take a disc to another player in another room and just resume.
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Old 02-20-19, 10:45 PM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
iTunes prices are $4.99 for a streaming rental or $14.99 to $19.99 for an "owned" download. I can see why the industry wants to go all-digital.
and Blu-rays are $39.99 and never go on sale.

But they do, as do many digital movies all the time.
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Old 02-21-19, 12:57 AM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

Originally Posted by Gizmo View Post


and Blu-rays are $39.99 and never go on sale.

But they do, as do many digital movies all the time.

I'm not sure where you shop but with any major studio picture, the disc price drops after a few weeks. As I write this "First Man" Blu-ray + DVD + Digital combo pack is $17 on Amazon. With digital there's no such thing as over-stock or the need for a retailer to clear space which are all factors that help the consumer get a competitive low price.

When digital takes over the studios have the freedom to monopolize their own content and set their own prices with no secondary (used) market to compete with either.
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Old 02-21-19, 06:12 AM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
I'm not sure where you shop but with any major studio picture, the disc price drops after a few weeks. As I write this "First Man" Blu-ray + DVD + Digital combo pack is $17 on Amazon. With digital there's no such thing as over-stock or the need for a retailer to clear space which are all factors that help the consumer get a competitive low price.

When digital takes over the studios have the freedom to monopolize their own content and set their own prices with no secondary (used) market to compete with either.

I believe Gizmo's first line about $39.99 Blu-rays is what OTHERS have said. His second line points out the fact that this ISN'T true.

However, sad to say, but those who wait for discounted titles are only hurting physical media's chances of survival. Much like a movie's opening weekend at the box office, the studios really care about those first week/first month sales of titles, and it's the stats they look at when determining what to release in the future on Blu-ray, 4K, etc. It's one of the reasons some TV series only get DVD releases now...no one was grabbing them on Blu-ray that first month of release.

So if you love physical media and want it around, BUY those titles you really love/want when the first come out.
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Old 02-21-19, 09:19 AM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt View Post
ISo if you love physical media and want it around, BUY those titles you really love/want when they first come out.
That will forever be the free-market conundrum; sellers want to sell for the most amount of money and buyers want to pay the least amount of money.


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Old 02-21-19, 10:49 AM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

I seem to be missing the point of streaming movies. When I was recovering from surgery last summer, I jointed Netflix streaming for a couple of months. Most of what they offered was ten year old television programs. Their catalog of movies was tiny. I spent hours looking for something that I was interested in watching.

Meanwhile, Netflix DVD have recently sent us the movies Primer, Zatoichi #8, The Roaring Twenties, and A Dangerous Method. There was no comparison.

Anyway, because of this news, I bought an all-region Sony X800 player. I hope it lasts a long time.
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Old 02-21-19, 11:49 AM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

Since Blu Ray is Sony's baby, it will be interesting to see what they do, but I expect them to hang in there for a while. I thought that 4K was released waaayyy too soon. For crying out loud, DVD still gets a lot more shelf space than anything else at any store.

Aside from video quality and collecting, physical media has another plus - we're getting nasty storms right now - thunder storms in February. A surge killed our modem, but I've got plenty to watch without the Internet...
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Old 02-21-19, 12:58 PM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

Originally Posted by albert_m View Post
I thought that 4K was released waaayyy too soon.
I wish 4K had been more fully baked before being taken out of the oven. The initial 4K displays were almost immediately outmoded since there weren't any standards (my in-laws' early 4K display doesn't do HDR of any sort, for example), and there being on HDR "standard" after another after another after another muddies things up more than I'd like.

At the same time, I think it's ideal to have a physical format early on. If you were to buy a 4K display in 2017 or 2018, and your only way to watch Ultra HD material was streaming or downloads, it seems like a physical format coming along in, say, 2020 or 2021 would be completely dead in the water. If you train your userbase that they can't get what they want with discs and force them to use alternate means, they're almost certainly not going to go back to discs when they become available years later.

But personally, I look at Ultra HD Blu-ray as supplementing Blu-ray, not replacing it. When Blu-ray came along, DVD was pretty much dead to me. I'd still get specials, concert discs, MST3K/Cinematic Titanic, and the occasional TV season, but the vast, vast majority of what I bought was on HD DVD (for its brief lifespan) or Blu-ray. And while I won't buy a movie on Blu-ray if it's on Ultra HD Blu-ray as well, my BD purchases still far outpace UHD BD. Like, by a factor of 3 since Ultra HD Blu-ray launched, and by 1.5 over the past year.

Originally Posted by melasnus View Post
Probably the biggest blunder studios has made with this format is using BD 2K masters and upconverting them to 4K.
The results generally do not motivate folks to open their wallets.
Well, the 2K masters are being created for theaters, on a massively larger screen than anyone's going to have at home. How many people are complaining when they go to see a movie theatrically that it has a 2K digital intermediate?

Don't get me wrong! I'd love to see everything finished in 4K. But I don't see having the same resolution as what's still pretty standard in movie theaters as inherently being a bad thing, and I'd imagine that beyond geeks like us, borderline-no one is even aware how many movies were/all finished in 2K. Some of my favorite looking titles on UHD BD were finished in 2K. Some of the least impressive were finished in 4K.

Aside from The Bourne Identity, I'm not aware of any titles finished on film that are upscaled from 2K on Ultra HD Blu-ray.

Originally Posted by Sonic View Post
I can't afford to be buying $25 discs. Those days are over.
I used to be the type to buy everything I wanted on day one. But now that I'm married and not watching remotely as many movies as I did before, I pretty much always have a backlog, so anything that I don't desperately need to get as soon as possible (like superhero flicks) winds up being something to get down the road. Quite often, I never wind up buying those titles at all. And often I'll get 'em on a deep sale.

Originally Posted by Sonic View Post
The problem is not streaming, the problem is people are sick of shelling out over $20 for titles.
I dunno, VOD and digital sales are still a thing beyond all-you-can-eat streaming services, and those still aren't incredibly cheap close to release either.

Originally Posted by Sonic View Post
More baffling is why I don't understand a bunch of grown old ass men on the internet being so emotional like a female, over plastic toy garbage that Samsung is exiting on. The only person that gives a care for 4K Samsung players are those that collect them funko pop crap and probably have most of their home furnished in plastic.
I missed this post before, but...please don't. None of this.

Last edited by Adam Tyner; 02-21-19 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 02-21-19, 01:57 PM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

Originally Posted by Adam Tyner View Post
Well, the 2K masters are being created for theaters, on a massively larger screen than anyone's going to have at home. How many people are complaining when they go to see a movie theatrically that it has a 2K digital intermediate?

Don't get me wrong! I'd love to see everything finished in 4K. But I don't see having the same resolution as what's still pretty standard in movie theaters as inherently being a bad thing, and I'd imagine that beyond geeks like us, borderline-no one is even aware how many movies were/all finished in 2K. Some of my favorite looking titles on UHD BD were finished in 2K. Some of the least impressive were finished in 4K.
I think there is always a misconception that a DCP (Digital Cinema Package) 2K theatrical presentation with a resolution of 2048 X 1080 is just slightly better than Blu-ray which is 1920 X 1080. People tend to forget that DCP maxes out at 250 megabytes per second whereas Blu-ray maxes out at 40 megabytes per second.

Last edited by orangerunner; 02-22-19 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 02-21-19, 05:09 PM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
I think there is always a misconception that a DCP (Digital Cinema Package) 2K theatrical presentations with a resolution of 2048 X 1080 is just slightly better than Blu-ray which is 1920 X 1080. People tend to forget that DCP maxes out at 250 megabytes per second whereas Blu-ray maxes out at 40 megabytes per second.
QUESTIONS:

What does UHD discs max out at?
Also, why do reviews (at other sites) claim a disc release comes from a <4K resolution master?
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Old 02-21-19, 05:47 PM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

4K, UHD, HDR, HDR10+, Dolby Vision....not 2% of the population knows what any of this means.
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Old 02-21-19, 06:24 PM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

Originally Posted by melasnus View Post
QUESTIONS:

What does UHD discs max out at?
128 Mbps. Different compression codecs, though, so itís not completely apples to apples.

Originally Posted by melasnus View Post
Also, why do reviews (at other sites) claim a disc release comes from a <4K resolution master?
I mention this in my reviews when I have that information.

Plenty of labels, like Warner Archive, Shout/Scream Factory, Arrow, Kino Lorber, etc. make it a point to highlight this on social media, even when a Blu-ray release is sourced from a 2K master. You donít really see that for recent theatrical releases, but itís not hard to track down if itís a 2K or 4K DCP.
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Old 02-21-19, 07:02 PM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

Originally Posted by melasnus View Post
QUESTIONS:

What does UHD discs max out at?
Also, why do reviews (at other sites) claim a disc release comes from a <4K resolution master?
What Adam said, 128 mbps with 10 bit color depth as opposed to 12-bit for DCP.
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Old 02-21-19, 11:13 PM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

Originally Posted by Adam Tyner View Post

Plenty of labels, like Warner Archive, Shout/Scream Factory, Arrow, Kino Lorber, etc. make it a point to highlight this on social media, even when a Blu-ray release is sourced from a 2K master. You donít really see that for recent theatrical releases, but itís not hard to track down if itís a 2K or 4K DCP.
Even at this late date, it seems very few UHD discs come from 4K masters.
Most seem to be somewhere between 2.4k and 3.4K.
Possibly this means both BD and UHD discs come from the same master...one is downconverted and the other is upconverted?
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Old 02-22-19, 01:16 AM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

Originally Posted by Adam Tyner View Post
I used to be the type to buy everything I wanted on day one. But now that I'm married and not watching remotely as many movies as I did before, I pretty much always have a backlog, so anything that I don't desperately need to get as soon as possible (like superhero flicks) winds up being something to get down the road. Quite often, I never wind up buying those titles at all. And often I'll get 'em on a deep sale.
I think what is best these days is ripping those discs apart and storing them on your media server. I've grown tired of pulling out discs left and right and also the maintenance that comes with it. Making sure of no scratches, smudges etc
I find ripping all the discs and storing them, is so damn cool, not to mention super neat.

Originally Posted by Adam Tyner View Post
I dunno, VOD and digital sales are still a thing beyond all-you-can-eat streaming services, and those still aren't incredibly cheap close to release either.
Correct. Prices of $19.99 is not worth it for me to stream. I guess that works for people that got the cash to burn.

Originally Posted by Adam Tyner View Post
I missed this post before, but...please don't. None of this.
My deepest apologies. I was referencing some user posts on the other blu-forum. Not here. If I offended a few that was not my intention. Reading some helpless comments over there like "what should I do now?" gave me chuckles.
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Old 02-22-19, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
I'm not sure where you shop but with any major studio picture, the disc price drops after a few weeks. As I write this "First Man" Blu-ray + DVD + Digital combo pack is $17 on Amazon. With digital there's no such thing as over-stock or the need for a retailer to clear space which are all factors that help the consumer get a competitive low price.

When digital takes over the studios have the freedom to monopolize their own content and set their own prices with no secondary (used) market to compete with either.
My comment reflects

"$14.99 to $19.99 for an "owned" download."

that not all digital movies are $19.99 as they often go on sale...just like Blu-rays. So if they want to stick all digital movies at "MSRP", they should for blu-rays as well.

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
I seem to be missing the point of streaming movies. When I was recovering from surgery last summer, I jointed Netflix streaming for a couple of months. Most of what they offered was ten year old television programs. Their catalog of movies was tiny. I spent hours looking for something that I was interested in watching.

Meanwhile, Netflix DVD have recently sent us the movies Primer, Zatoichi #8, The Roaring Twenties, and A Dangerous Method. There was no comparison.

Anyway, because of this news, I bought an all-region Sony X800 player. I hope it lasts a long time.
So because you don't know how to properly use Netflix for streaming you think disc is superior? Maybe one of your grand kids can come over and show you the dozens (?) of monthly TV releases exclusive to the service, all of last years (and seasons) CW shows + tons of other stuff that isn't 10+ years old. And the Netflix DVD ones you got are old movies....so are you trying to trash the streamer for apparently having "old" shows yet you asked Netflix to send you "old" movies?



Originally Posted by albert_m View Post
Since Blu Ray is Sony's baby, it will be interesting to see what they do, but I expect them to hang in there for a while. I thought that 4K was released waaayyy too soon. For crying out loud, DVD still gets a lot more shelf space than anything else at any store.

Aside from video quality and collecting, physical media has another plus - we're getting nasty storms right now - thunder storms in February. A surge killed our modem, but I've got plenty to watch without the Internet...

I don't think Sony cares much about BD anymore as they didn't bother sticking it in their PS4 (or Pro) while MS did.

Originally Posted by Sonic View Post

Correct. Prices of $19.99 is not worth it for me to stream. I guess that works for people that got the cash to burn.
Wait till it goes on sale just like physical media? Most new release start out at $19.99-$24.99, but typically iTunes/VUDU has them on sale a month later for $9.99 (and in 4k). You can buy digital copies directly from people buying the physical media version for $5-$8 all day every day and often 2-3 weeks before the disc even hits shelves. I've been enjoying Wreck it Ralph 2 for a week now. I won't even bother to mention catalog, over time, will see significant sales as low as $4.99 or in a bundle.

So yes, $19.99 may not be worth it on day 1 (which I also won't pay - even for a disc version), but let's not pretend every movie has that price for ever and ever.

Last edited by Adam Tyner; 02-22-19 at 11:03 AM. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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Old 02-22-19, 09:56 AM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt View Post
I believe Gizmo's first line about $39.99 Blu-rays is what OTHERS have said. His second line points out the fact that this ISN'T true.

However, sad to say, but those who wait for discounted titles are only hurting physical media's chances of survival. Much like a movie's opening weekend at the box office, the studios really care about those first week/first month sales of titles, and it's the stats they look at when determining what to release in the future on Blu-ray, 4K, etc. It's one of the reasons some TV series only get DVD releases now...no one was grabbing them on Blu-ray that first month of release.

So if you love physical media and want it around, BUY those titles you really love/want when the first come out.
Yeah waiting for Black Friday or 60-70% off sales is not the encouraging the studios to release more quality titles on physical media.

That's when titles are sold at a huge loss. I know most here or in general simply cannot afford to spend $20-25 per title or $40/TV season on discs nowadays, but that's the reality.

I was one of the apparent very few who bought Hawaii Five-O on BD when it came out, but apparently no one else was and that's why future BD seasons were scrapped.
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Old 02-22-19, 09:58 AM
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

Originally Posted by Gizmo View Post
I don't think Sony cares much about BD anymore as they didn't bother sticking it in their PS4 (or Pro) while MS did.
Wonder how large of a bribe the bluray patent holders (ie. Sony, etc ...) paid Microsoft to include it on XboxOne.

I suspect the guys running the intellectual property department at Sony, are not really talking at all with the guys running dvd/bluray player manufacturing department at Sony.
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Old 02-22-19, 10:16 AM
  #74  
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

I'm personally not worried with one player exiting the market. I don't buy nearly as much as I did 10-15 years ago, but I pick up things I really want every now. As I just said, I simply cannot afford to spend premium money on discs nowadays, but if it's something I really want like Avengers or maybe a small label like Shout, I'll cough it up.

The small labels aren't going anywhere anytime soon like Shout. They have their fanbases and I think are happy with selling 4-5K of certain catalog titles.

The people who have completely abandoned discs, I see their perspective too. It's too convenient to stream now and they are older now and probably have homes that don't have the space and other more important financial responsibilities in their lives. And time is another factor. Most simply don't have the time to sift through and watch thousands of back catalog discs.
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Old 02-22-19, 10:25 AM
  #75  
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Re: Samsung exiting Blu-ray Player Market

I bought those as well! Five-O looks great on blu. I think Germany or somewhere like that still sells the current seasons. Alas, TV seasons were the first to leave blu. Those still being released are few and far between.
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