Release List Reviews Shop Join News DVD Giveaways Video Games Advertise
DVD Reviews | Theatrical Reviews | Price Search Buy Stuff Here
DVD Talk
DVD Reviews DVD Talk Headlines HD Reviews


Add to My Yahoo! - RSS 2.0 - RSS 2.0 - DVD Talk Podcast RSS -


Go Back   DVD Talk Forum > DVD Discussions > HD Talk

HD Talk The place to discuss HD DVD, Blu-ray and all other forms and formats of HD and HDTV.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-20-16, 09:29 AM   #26
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,409
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zyzzle View Post
I can always burn another copy (or 2 or 3) to ensure that ONE of them will last. Likewise, I could back-up those copies to fresh new BD-Rs when an arbitrarly long time has passed (eg, 5 years) to ensure the title is "fresh". Or backup to HD, etc.

Using BD-Rs makes legality of the "copy" issue moot to me, since they're choosing to use a method of distribution which is known and proven to have lesser longevity than pressed media. What a guy stuck between a rock and a hard place to do?! Cheat 'em at their own game!
Unless you have an older, pre-Cinavia player this won't work. These are sure to be copy protected. Bds have the same copy protections as DVDs, plus the added protection of Cinavia. Nobody has cracked it yet as far as I know.
You can copy a BD using protection defeating software, however the copy will no longer have the traditional protection yet still have the Cinavia.
All players, except older models, have Cinavia installed on them. When loading the disc the player reads and recognizes the Cinavia on the disc. The player then searches for the other, traditional copy protection. If the player can't find it, which it won't on a copy, the audio will cut out about 15 minutes into the movie.
Some DVDs have Cinavia also. A copy will play in a DVD player but not a BD player. DVD players don't have Cinavia installed on them.
When Amazon put new restrictions on selling DVDs they left BDs unrestricted because they can't be bootlegged.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-16, 10:02 AM   #27
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 915
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

Personally, I'd rather seek out the import Blu-ray or even the DVD version of a movie I want to own rather than purchase a BD-R. I suspect this will fail just as Universal's foray into "flipper" discs was never fully embraced. If you gauge the response in this and other forums, I'd say nearly everyone save for a few misguided souls have their noses twisted out of joint over this news. As soon as these forums fill with both anecdotal and fictionalized accounts of disc failures, this experiment by Sony will be o-v-e-r. The people who are claiming this is a great idea and that it will save physical media have not thought it through. Will companies like Universal PRESS titles like "The Marx Brothers" on Blu-ray disc or will Warner Bros continue to PRESS their "Archive Collection" if Sony enjoys success with cheaply produced BD-Rs? Of course not—what would be the incentive? As for consumers, why buy a disc with a questionable lifespan if you can own it digitally on iTunes or VUDU far cheaper? Neither are a guarantee of long-term use and continue to move the ball slowly down the court to the end of the game for physical media. You've heard the story of a frog in a slow boil? It's a great analogy. If you haven't already, it is time to go region free my friends. Support the Blu-ray Disc and boycott the BD-R. It's truly unfortunate to see the company that fought so hard to eliminate HD DVD now looking to put the final nails in their own format's coffin. They have managed the evolution of high definition so poorly that I once again mourn the defeat of HD DVD.

Two things you can do: Send Sony a polite letter voicing your opposition to their decision and boycott the BD-R. Otherwise you can kiss the continued release of less popular and obscure titles on Blu-ray disc goodbye. Oh, and you can probably say goodbye to distributors like Shout, Arrow, Olive, Kino and Twilight Time because far fewer titles will be licensed for them to distribute if the studios move to this MOD/BD-R model for their catalog titles. This is just BAD news.

Last edited by AaronSch; 08-20-16 at 10:53 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-16, 10:53 AM   #28
DVD Talk Legend
 
Why So Blu?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 24,421
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

I'll take a wait and see approach. Out of this first batch I'm only interested in Fury. I need to investigate further if the French BD version does not have subs - I'll get that one instead.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-16, 11:05 AM   #29
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,280
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

The whole MOD thing seems kind of unnecessary, especially for DVD.

The studios can press the minimum amount of 500 units and sell that quantity quite easily.

The one Warner Archive disc I have uses what looks like a Falcon brand thermal DVD-R with a nice full-colour thermal-printed disc label and a trap sheet.

These would cost a fair amount of money to burn and print them one-by-one.

I guess the logic is if they stock 200 different titles X 500 of each - that's a lot of up-front money tied-up including storage. Then again, this is a major studio, not a basement operation.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-16, 03:32 PM   #30
DVD Talk Legend
 
PhantomStranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Phantom Zone
Posts: 18,285
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

The major studios despise carrying inventory of slow-selling titles, which is why they are so quick to jump on using BD-Rs. Some of the problem is how they've written up movie contracts with profit participants which plays into their decision.

I believe Sony thinks the initial demand for these discs will be under 1000 units per movie. I imagine if sales exceed expectations they switch certain discs to pressed copies.

The Film Detective, a niche label, has been using BD-Rs for their releases. I haven't had a problem with them, though I would hate to own a favorite movie on this format.
__________________
Blu-ray Picture Quality Rankings (last update: July 13, 2017)

Over 5000 Blu-rays ranked by pure video quality.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-16, 03:39 PM   #31
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,273
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobO'Link View Post
Based on the initial title list I get the impression they're marketing to "Joe 6 Pack" who doesn't know the difference. Give it time and you'll see the same comments on these as on DVD MODs - "I was sent a bootleg. It's purple instead of silver like it should be."
The absolute worst bluray discs I have ever seen (in a "chinatown" in an undisclosed big city), were ones which were almost "black" looking.

99% guess that these "black looking" bluray discs (instead of "silver side" looking) were not legitimate.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-16, 03:44 PM   #32
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,273
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
I believe Sony thinks the initial demand for these discs will be under 1000 units per movie. I imagine if sales exceed expectations they switch certain discs to pressed copies.
Any known cases of this happening?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-16, 09:02 PM   #33
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,423
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rw2516 View Post
Unless you have an older, pre-Cinavia player this won't work. These are sure to be copy protected. Bds have the same copy protections as DVDs, plus the added protection of Cinavia. Nobody has cracked it yet as far as I know.
You can copy a BD using protection defeating software, however the copy will no longer have the traditional protection yet still have the Cinavia.
All players, except older models, have Cinavia installed on them. When loading the disc the player reads and recognizes the Cinavia on the disc. The player then searches for the other, traditional copy protection. If the player can't find it, which it won't on a copy, the audio will cut out about 15 minutes into the movie.
Some DVDs have Cinavia also. A copy will play in a DVD player but not a BD player. DVD players don't have Cinavia installed on them.
When Amazon put new restrictions on selling DVDs they left BDs unrestricted because they can't be bootlegged.
... which is why I wisely have two pre-Cinavia players still unopened, safely stored away for that very reason... You've got to beat them at their game.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-16, 09:23 PM   #34
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,280
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by morriscroy View Post
The absolute worst bluray discs I have ever seen (in a "chinatown" in an undisclosed big city), were ones which were almost "black" looking.

99% guess that these "black looking" bluray discs (instead of "silver side" looking) were not legitimate.
To the best of my knowledge almost all BD-R discs are black/charcoal-grey on the recordable surface just as purple is for DVD-R and greenish-silver for CD-R.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-16, 09:25 PM   #35
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,280
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zyzzle View Post
... which is why I wisely have two pre-Cinavia players still unopened, safely stored away for that very reason... You've got to beat them at their game.
I knew those six HD-DVD players I picked-up for $10 would come in handy some day...
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-16, 02:32 PM   #36
DVD Talk Legend
 
PhantomStranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Phantom Zone
Posts: 18,285
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by morriscroy View Post
Any known cases of this happening?
It happened with several DVDs in Warner's Archive program. Sony's track record on Blu-ray indicates they really don't have a good idea of what sells and what doesn't sell on the format until something is put out.
__________________
Blu-ray Picture Quality Rankings (last update: July 13, 2017)

Over 5000 Blu-rays ranked by pure video quality.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-16, 04:07 PM   #37
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Sunny Hawaii
Posts: 6,156
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

BD-r uses fundamentally different recording technology than DVD-r and CD-r. Those use organic phase shift dyes which are prone to fading over time. bd-r uses an inorganic alloy which should last hundreds of years and is essentially archival quality. Do a little googling. There a TDK spec sheet or white paper about it.

(This is assuming they're not using the newer cheapo BD-r LTH media which is dye based.)
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-16, 05:38 PM   #38
DVD Talk Reviewer
 
Alan Smithee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: USA
Posts: 7,410
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

Quote:
Wonder how soon these titles will show up in local dump bins, so that Alan Smithee and his buddies can swoop in and binge buy them all up.
The point of mail-order-only BD-Rs is that they WON'T have extra copies that end up in dump bins. The number of copies they make is only however many people actually buy. I haven't had any quality problems with burned discs I've bought yet, but it still feels like I'm paying full price for an illegal copy, which I know how to make myself provided I can get my hands on the legit disc (my player doesn't have Cinavia, haven't seen what that does yet.)
__________________
Tell LG Electronics not to kill home 3D!
https://www.change.org/p/lg-electron...ion-reason_msg

Tell Samsung to bring it back too! https://www.change.org/p/contactus-s...agship-4k-tv-s
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-16, 09:10 AM   #39
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Kedrix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Katy, Tx
Posts: 3,983
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Decker View Post
All I'm taking from that message is that I won't be getting a Criterion version of Body Double.
The Twilight Time release (now sold out) was excellent. Highly recommend it, not this BD-R crap that Sony is trying to push. If anybody wants to read my old review (back when I was still writing reviews on a regular basis), you can below.

Body Double - Twilight Time BR release
__________________
Michael Durr
Kedrix of Aldrianian - (*The Forgotten One*)
Xbox Gamertag: Kedrix / Follow Me on Twitter: KedrixDotNet
Yes, I have my own webpage - @ Kedrix.net
Personal VUDU M2D Page -->http://www.kedrix.net/vudu-mobile-d2d/
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-16, 12:16 PM   #40
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 915
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

The idea that this is the only way we'll see some obscure titles on Blu-ray is ludicrous. Logic dictates that if collectors are foolish enough to embrace buying any of these titles on BD-R it will make it less likely that catalog titles will be licensed and pressed in the future. I'd prefer buying a pressed Blu-ray disc from Olive Films, Kino/Lorber and yes, even the over-priced Twilight Time—even bare-bones—over these Sony BD-Rs. If you folks support this ruse, I guarantee far fewer titles will be licensed by the studios in the future and you'll have nobody but yourselves to blame.

I'm shopping for my first region-free 3-D Blu-ray player. Any suggestions? My first Region B purchase will be the PRESSED Australian Import of "Body Double" for $14.95 from Deep Discount—half of what Sony wants for its BD-R coasters.

Last edited by AaronSch; 08-22-16 at 12:27 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-16, 01:14 PM   #41
DVD Talk Legend
 
Why So Blu?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 24,421
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
The idea that this is the only way we'll see some obscure titles on Blu-ray is ludicrous. Logic dictates that if collectors are foolish enough to embrace buying any of these titles on BD-R it will make it less likely that catalog titles will be licensed and pressed in the future. I'd prefer buying a pressed Blu-ray disc from Olive Films, Kino/Lorber and yes, even the over-priced Twilight Time—even bare-bones—over these Sony BD-Rs. If you folks support this ruse, I guarantee far fewer titles will be licensed by the studios in the future and you'll have nobody but yourselves to blame.

I'm shopping for my first region-free 3-D Blu-ray player. Any suggestions? My first Region B purchase will be the PRESSED Australian Import of "Body Double" for $14.95 from Deep Discount—half of what Sony wants for its BD-R coasters.


This is the one I bought - it was refurbished - it's a fantastic little player:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...on=refurbished
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-16, 01:42 PM   #42
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,273
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
It happened with several DVDs in Warner's Archive program. Sony's track record on Blu-ray indicates they really don't have a good idea of what sells and what doesn't sell on the format until something is put out.
In the case of Sony, offhand I can only think of one title which was originally released as dvd-r, which was later released as pressed discs:

- season 5 of the original Charlie's Angels.

Though in this case, I doubt it was re-released (as pressed discs) due to it being a hot seller. The pressed version of season 5 was specifically included in the "complete series" dvd set of the original Charlie's Angels.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-16, 07:22 PM   #43
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 915
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Why So Blu? View Post
This is the one I bought - it was refurbished - it's a fantastic little player:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...on=refurbished
Is that model already region free or does it need some type of firmware update?
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-16, 11:44 AM   #44
New Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

Is there Legit factory pressings of karate kid 3 and next karate kid on bluray? I bought the amazon ones choice collection. I didn't know they are dvd-r but I don't like paying that much to have a burnt copy. Thanks for any help.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-16, 12:42 PM   #45
New Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

Is there Legit factory pressings of karate kid 3 and next karate kid on bluray? I bought the amazon ones choice collection. I didn't know they are dvd-r but I don't like paying that much to have a burnt copy. Thanks for any help.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-16, 04:44 PM   #46
DVD Talk Legend
 
Why So Blu?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 24,421
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
Is that model already region free or does it need some type of firmware update?
Just saw this - no, it's ready to go out of the box. You just have to press a button to switch it to region B and you're set.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-17, 09:36 AM   #47
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,356
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

Looks like they're continuing with this line, and its bloated pricing:

THE BITTER TEA OF GENERAL YEN - $26.99
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0742VSVXQ/
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-17, 10:43 AM   #48
DVD Talk Legend
 
Why So Blu?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 24,421
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

"North" is also getting the "Choice Collection" treatment.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-17, 10:46 AM   #49
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,550
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian T View Post
this line, and its bloated pricing
I'd rather have esoteric/low-demand titles available at a premium price than not at all.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-17, 02:20 PM   #50
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 810
Re: Sony Announces First Waves of MOD (Manufacture on Demand) Blu-ray Releases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian T View Post
THE BITTER TEA OF GENERAL YEN - $26.99
Bitter Tea indeed.

A few years ago, I would have been happy to buy a Frank Capra: The Early Years DVD set, but 1) by the time I began to want it, and 2) by the time I realized the first batch was actually replicated, it was too late.

If anybody has a replicated set in like new condition they want to sell, do send me a PM. But no, I'm not paying the $67+ they want on Amazon.

Last edited by thetao; 07-27-17 at 02:38 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:25 AM.


Copyright 2011 DVDTalk.com All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0