hanshotfirst1138

I don't think that I've EVER heard that argument from anybody. Lucas wants that to happen in a sort of twisted, Orwellian way, but even he has not exactly stated that out right, he has said "these are the films that I originally intended to make." There are fans who stand by his viewpoint and believe that they represent what he originally wanted the films to be, but I don't think anyone ever believe that they were that way originally, especially will exception amount of controversy which is found about that particular topic.

zyzzle

Alright, I decided to re-watch my Blu of the film tonight, and must say in all fairness that the teal is only truly noticeable in a few indoor scenes. The caliber of the film is so good that I rapidly got caught up in the masterful work on display and 'dealt with' the modern color timing. It was still very annoying, but for the most part outdoor scenes are as I remembered, bright and colorful from my 1981 theater viewing. I still object strongly as to why Mann felt the need to tinker with it to make it look more modern (achromatic) in some of the final indoor scenes, eg. the final showdown, the car dealership indoor scenes, etc). Ironically, the courtroom scene looked "almost" natural compared to some of those final scenes. At least on my calibrated display, that scene did not look very teal... So, I concur that some of the posted screenshots, particularly that scene, did not correspond to the degree of tealization that I saw on my display.

gmanca

Personally the difference was jarring; the opening sequence, with the rain and keyhole sequence being more visible, changed the feel of the introduction to Frank.

I am happy that they did use the director's cut with the beautifully shot dock scene with Willie Dixon.

hdnmickey

I see you have switched from moving goal posts to building straw men. And outright ridiculous ones at that. Bravo.

*crickets*

Can't say I'm surprised.

Why So Blu?

So I just finished watching the BD and it was great. Those screencaps are garbage and if you're the type of person that goes by screencaps then you're mental. I will say that the opening sequence that lead up to Frank's character, as was mentioned above, did have a bit of a teal push, but it was not intrusive whatsoever. If you think the sky is falling due to this then you need to get laid. Now speaking on the film itself, wow, what a fucking great film! Caan was a badass and that cast! I enjoyed those jumpcuts he used when people got blasted on - it reminded me of Manhunter.

hanshotfirst1138

Well duh, you couldn't tell that from my other posts ?

d2cheer

Pretty much agree that so many get worked up over the screencaps and not watch the actual movie which never really looks like them. Stunning movie on blu.

Ringmaster

Finally go around to watching this blu. On my 42" LCD setup the movie did NOT look like this

I was amazed at how beautiful the picture looked. Great job Criterion.

Dan

I'm convinced.

Bob_Bobbson

I watched Scanners yesterday. It looked good, not like the cap from Blu-ray.com that was posted in this thread.

...and people are saying that Thief doesn't look like the cap posted...also from Blu-Ray.com. Maybe there are just some screen-capping issues there? The same person did both reviews, so maybe they're doing it wrong?

I'll watch Thief in the next day or so to check out the disk for myself.

Dan

I watched Thief last night. Excellent movie. Crazy that Michael Mann did so well on his debut, and how much of the style in his later flicks is evident here.
The colours looked great on my setup. I haven't calibrated my projector in quite awhile, but I barely noticed any scenes that looked overly teal to my eyes, if at all. Even the courtroom scene looked quite natural to me.

Josh Z

I'm sure that a little mouse here will be ever-so-thrilled to see me reopen this thread.

I watched the Thief Blu-ray when it was first released and noticed the teal push right away, but because I wasn't reviewing the disc I didn't take specific notes on it. I finally had a couple of free hours this weekend and watched the whole movie from beginning to end on my calibrated projector.

Some of the screencaps that were posted previously (were they all from blu-ray.com?) are exaggerated, especially the courtroom shot you can see a few posts up from this one. There is teal in that scene, but it's nowhere near as bad as that screencap. Whoever took the screencap obviously f***ed it up. Given the source, that shouldn't be too surprising.

Nevertheless, there is a teal bias throughout the movie. And contrary to what a couple of people said, it's not just in the indoor scenes. It's frequently visible outdoors as well, such as the now teal-walled tires of James Caan's car. Pretty much any white (eyes, teeth, paper, etc.) will have a teal tinge.

While this is not the worst teal-and-orange revision I've seen of an old movie, it does not look right to me at all. Movies simply weren't photographed this way in the 1980s. The color grading is very digital and unnatural, in the style of modern DI movies. Even if Michael Mann had wanted the movie to look this way in 1981, I can't imagine how he would have done it with the technology of the time. Any sort of camera filter or photochemical color timing would have looked different than what we have here.

In terms of detail and grain management (present but not obstrusive), the disc looks far better than any previous video copy of the film, but the colors really bother me.

zyzzle

Glad you finally objectively watched the Criterion THIEF all the way through. After my initial very angry feelings, I sat down and watched it just as you did, and feel quite the same way and echo your sentiments.. It looks *digital*- too much like a 2014 "product" when it should be an original 1981 masterpiece. This is the best we, the paying customers will get. So, I've got to go with it... anachronistic as it is.

A similar 'revision' is seen in the Australian masterpiece WAKE IN FRIGHT, recently released by the BFI. Teal city. I was most reminded of that when I watched THIEF... in terms of how much better the restoration could, and should have, been.

Dan

I own the Australian Blu-ray of Wake in Fright. Is that transfer different than the one you are talking about?

zyzzle

No, the Australian transfer is from the same master (= a digitally tweaked, grain-removed, color-timing-changed) as the other two Blu releases. The Aussie disc was the first released, I believe, while the US and UK (Master of Cinema) blus followed. They all look the same, ie, the same 'modern' 2014 DV look, no film grain, and very dubious color-timing... The UK release is the most technically robust of the three, but that is for moot when you consider the source material being that hideously over-digitized master...

ReduxGuy

That was one of the most hideous Blu-Ray transfers I've ever seen. Made all the worst by that horrible subtitle job Sony did.

zyzzle

Well, it looks like Arrow's 2015 release of THIEF blows Criterion's out of the water... According to DVDBeaver's new review of the Arrow limited edition Blu, "Arrow ecclipses Criterion on every front." All that obsequious, kowtowing to the director's wishes has been proven the bullshit that it always was...

Arrow has righted a wrong (shame on Criterion!) and set the record right with the definitive release of THIEF on Blu-ray. We can all rest easy now.

hanshotfirst1138

Goddamn I love being region-free sometimes . It's nice when a first-world problem gets solved .

E Unit

Sure....because the Criterion was so substandard....actually I already preordered the UK steelbook, so I'm looking forward to seeing the original coloring against the Criterion version. But I don't see how having the original palate results in "blowing the Criterion out of the water."

Paul_SD

I'd say anytime a company offers the original, unrevised version of a film along side the director/studio preferred revisionist version then it absolutely does blow a competing release only containing a revised version out of the water.
A few different extras likely wouldn't matter to me. The original theatrical version of the film, however? That is a major deal.

hanshotfirst1138

Agreed. 99% of the time, these revisions become the defacto version of the movie, for another release to offer the original version in equally high quality is a rare occurrence, so I'm glad to see it happen for once.

rocket1312

I agree that this Arrow release looks great and is preferable to the Criterion, but what exactly is being proven here? As far as I can tell, all that is being proven is that Arrow cared enough to include the theatrical cut.

zyzzle

Exactly! Arrow cares enough, didn't take sides, and gives the viewer the choice to make up his or her mind about the matter. Criterion, it seems, in an effort to appease the director only cared enough to offer his 'definitive' teal-washed version of the film.

Usually I would side with Criterion, as they've put out some excellent product over the last 30 years, but in this case Arrow leaves Criterion holding the bag...

rocket1312

Maybe it was in an effort to appease the director. Or maybe Criterion sets a production budget on each title and in this case determined that the cost to include the other cut wasn't worth it (This was a dual format release and including it would have made the package 4 discs). Or maybe Mann actually referenced the original answer print when supervising the transfer like the booklet says and the old MGM transfer isn't as correct as some think it is. The point is, we don't know why Criterion handled it the way they did. All we know is that the Arrow release at the very least offers a choice, so anyone interested in the film should probably pick up that version.

Doctorossi

Yes, it would be nice if some considered this idea and made room for the possibility that others (like those responsible for it) might actually know something about this release, as well.

One could look at the beautiful, naturalistic photography evident on the Blu-ray of Do the Right Thing and be forgiven for leaving with the impression that it (and not the 'filtered, color-washed mess' on other releases) must represent the original intended look of the film.