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-   -   4K Blu ray coming soon (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/hd-talk/616926-4k-blu-ray-coming-soon.html)

E Unit 01-08-14 09:49 PM

4K Blu ray coming soon
 
Somewhat talked about before, but if this happens, I'm guessing Blu ray will stay around just a wee bit longer. I'm also guessing most of our current Blu ray players (save for the PS3 and 4 and Samsung apparently) will have a firmware upgrade to play these new discs.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/tech...-1226797125793

Samsung says 125 gigabyte Blu-ray disks are on the way

BLU-RAY disks with a huge 100-125 gigabyte capacity for storing ultra-high definition movies are likely to be available this year, Samsung has revealed.

At the Consumer Electronics Show this year, manufacturers including Samsung, Sony and LG have been showing off their latest ultra-high definition TVs.

These TVs have razor-sharp screens with four times the resolution of typical 1080p high definition, flat screen TVs in Australian homes. However problems remain before the so-called 4K format is viable.

One is the lack of movie content in the new ultra-high definition or 4K format; another is not having a way of conveying 4k content to users: 4K movies can require more than 100GB of storage - which is far in excess of the 25 GB capacity of a single layer Blu-ray disk and the 4.7GB available on a DVD.

Streaming content is one option, and manufacturers are forging agreements with movie houses to offer it over the internet. Successfully streaming 4K content however will depend on the quality of internet connections, available bandwidth and domestic account download limits.

Another way is for movie rental stores and 4K TV manufacturers to make content available the old fashioned way - on Blu-ray disks.

Vice-president for consumer electronics at Samsung Australia Philip Newton told The Australian today that Samsung had the technology in place to produce high-capacity four-layer Blu-ray disks for distributing 4K movies.

Mr Newton said he expected theses disks would become available "by the end of the year". He said it also would not be a problem for Samsung to make available players than can read four-layer Blu-ray disks.

Mr Newton said the optical technology needed for making and reading four-layer disks had been available "for years". He said the hold-up was over manufacturers settling on standards for storing electronic content.

He said industry was keen to avoid another Betamax-VHS style format fracas. In the late 1970s and 1980s Sony, the proponent of Betamax, and JVC, which promoted VHS, went head-to-head in a bruising format battle that ended in 1988 when Sony conceded defeat.

In the case of 4K content, issues such as the preferred codes used for compressing movies needed to be sorted out wit H265 and Google's VP9 rival contenders.

Mr Newton said the 4k format standard "is still in a state of flux" but four-layer Blu-ray disks would emerge "once everyone is on the same page".

"Except for the standard, it's good to go," Mr Newton told The Australian.

Each layer of a BluRay disk typically holds 25GB of content, so a four-layer disk should hold a 100GB movie.

In the meantime, Samsung this year will offer 5 4K-format Hollywood movies and 3 4K documentaries to customers who buy new ultra-high definition TVs to be available in Australia from April-May this year.

By year's end, Samsung will have supplied customers with 20 4K movies and 30 documentaries provided on 3.5-inch hard drives.

Other TV manufacturers are understood to be gearing to supply four-layer BlueRay disks also. In Germany, Singulus Technologies last year said it had production-tested Blu-ray disks with a 100GB capacity.

Blu-ray format standards are established by the Blu-ray Disk Association.

Gizmo 01-08-14 10:15 PM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 
No one will care.

E Unit 01-08-14 10:23 PM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 
I doubt that will stop them.

Supermallet 01-08-14 11:01 PM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 
I predict there will be way less 4k releases than regular BD releases, and if I have to buy a new receiver to pass the image through, I'm out (until my receiver needs to be replaced for some other reason).

Gizmo 01-08-14 11:08 PM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 

Originally Posted by trespoochies (Post 11971308)
I doubt that will stop them.

Who will carry the discs? Best Buy with it's rapidly shrinking space for discs?

Maybe Twilight Time....

story 01-09-14 01:07 AM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 

Originally Posted by Supermallet (Post 11971342)
I predict there will be way less 4k releases than regular BD releases, and if I have to buy a new receiver to pass the image through, I'm out (until my receiver needs to be replaced for some other reason).

And you (and I) have got a great receiver so yeah, no rush.

PhantomStranger 01-09-14 01:53 AM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 
The manufacturers want the format more than the Hollywood studios, though Sony is obviously both.

Xiroteus 01-09-14 04:09 AM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 
Even though disks will be far superior then some compressed digital download or streaming version of any given content I'm not sure how many people are going to care enough. There will always be people that will care yet whatever is done online will likely be good enough for most people.

It does not sound remotely fun waiting for releases all over again.

If current players could relay the information to a newer 4K set along new releases could do okay unless they cost a fortune.

Shannon Nutt 01-09-14 06:54 AM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 
You can master a disc in 4k, but you're still going to need a Blu-ray player that will output in native 4k (in addition to the 4k TV). Otherwise, you're still going to get upscaled 1080p. I'm not sure that the few upscaling 4k Blu-ray players on the market so far are designed for native 4k.

Gizmo 01-09-14 09:08 AM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 

Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt (Post 11971516)
You can master a disc in 4k, but you're still going to need a Blu-ray player that will output in native 4k (in addition to the 4k TV). Otherwise, you're still going to get upscaled 1080p. I'm not sure that the few upscaling 4k Blu-ray players on the market so far are designed for native 4k.

BD 4.0?

They still do profiles anymore?

E Unit 01-09-14 10:31 AM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 

Originally Posted by Gizmo (Post 11971345)
Who will carry the discs? Best Buy with it's rapidly shrinking space for discs?

Maybe Twilight Time....

So if Best Buy doesn't sell it, the whole thing fails. Good to know. I doubt places like Amazon, Fry's, all of Europe and Asia will sell it either.....

I'm not saying it'll be a success, in fact I don't. I think they need to worry more about how many people will even buy a 4k TV. All of this is worthless unless it's put to its full use. I for one won't be buying one unless a 70" is $3k and under, which won't happen for a very long time. So for me, having a 4k Blu ray is worthless until then.

bunkaroo 01-09-14 10:35 AM

Haven't you guys learned Best Buy's shelf space is the harbinger of doom? DOOOOOOOOM!!!!

joltman 01-09-14 10:46 AM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 
It sounds to me like it requires new hardware, not just a firmware update. Note this quote "He said it also would not be a problem for Samsung to make available players than can read four-layer Blu-ray disks."

Adam Tyner 01-09-14 10:47 AM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 

Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt (Post 11971516)
I'm not sure that the few upscaling 4k Blu-ray players on the market so far are designed for native 4k.

That's addressed in the original article:

In the case of 4K content, issues such as the preferred codecs used for compressing movies needed to be sorted out with H265 and Google's VP9 rival contenders.

Mr Newton said the 4k format standard "is still in a state of flux" but four-layer Blu-ray disks would emerge "once everyone is on the same page".

"Except for the standard, it's good to go," Mr Newton told The Australian.
Basically, there's a method of producing discs believed to provide enough capacity, but nothing else has been standardized. No standard, no way for existing 4K upscaling players to be forward looking enough to handle future 4K discs.

slop101 01-09-14 11:04 AM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 
Think I need to have a 100" screen to notice the difference. I'm fine with my 50" screen, more then that would be ostentatious.

bruceames 01-09-14 11:10 AM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger (Post 11971389)
The manufacturers want the format more than the Hollywood studios, though Sony is obviously both.

I doubt that the studios are very enthused. It took Blu-ray 7 1/2 years just to get to 30% of DVD, and DVD sales are less than 40% of what they were during its peak. 4K will be even more niche. So if projected out proportionately, than 4k would sell perhaps 10% of what DVD does in another 8 years, which will be less than half of what it is now. That would come to about $250 million a year?

stvn1974 01-09-14 11:36 AM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 
Does this mean I need to hurry up and buy all of my favorite films and TV shows that are already out now before DVD and BD is obsolete and they stop making them?

fitprod 01-09-14 12:24 PM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 

Originally Posted by bunkaroo (Post 11971682)
Haven't you guys learned Best Buy's shelf space is the harbinger of doom? DOOOOOOOOM!!!!

Yeah. their own doom... We should start hearing about more store closures the next time they issue a fiscal report. Come 2016 or 2017, Best Buy will have joined Circuit City in the grand Electronic Stores in the sky.

fitprod

Jay G. 01-09-14 12:47 PM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 

Originally Posted by Gizmo (Post 11971593)
BD 4.0?

They still do profiles anymore?

Technically, Blu-ray 3D was Profile 5.0:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ra...layer_profiles
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/...ing_blu-ray_3d

However, it will take more changes than what I think a new Profile will allow. When a new profile was introduced, the discs were still playable on older BD players, just with less features. Jumping to 4K will require more storage, new codecs, and a higher resolution.

The already announced BDXL disc format for 100GB and 128GB discs is not backwards compatible with existing players:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#BDXL


"Blu-ray 4K", or whatever they call it will be to Blu-ray what "HD DVD" was to DVD: A new format using the same basic branding.

If they go with a new format, they should add some other features that Blu-ray is lacking, like support for 30p/48p/50p/60p in 1080p/4K and 3D.

zyzzle 01-09-14 06:48 PM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 
The whole morass is becoming so complicated now, that the average consumer, let alone the high-end one, won't care to upgrade. The point of diminishing returns is rapidly approaching. Unless good money is spent on the encode, 4k likely won't look better. It may even look worse, due to compression artifacts, if Sony or others tries to cram too many bits at the expense of film size.

I'm out. It is certain that very, very few catalog titles will be released in 4k anyway. Way too expensive to do them right.

Why So Blu? 01-09-14 06:54 PM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 
I'm out. BD was it for me. I don't care about no damn 4K.

Deftones 01-09-14 07:24 PM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 
I just threw away all my blu-rays. tell me where i can buy the new and greatest 4k discs

E Unit 01-09-14 07:28 PM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 
Best Buy.

bootsy 01-09-14 08:21 PM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 

Originally Posted by Deftones (Post 11972263)
I just threw away all my blu-rays. tell me where i can buy the new and greatest 4k discs

I'm hoping you are joking.

Alan Smithee 01-09-14 09:28 PM

Re: 4K Blu ray coming soon
 

Another way is for movie rental stores and 4K TV manufacturers to make content available the old fashioned way - on Blu-ray disks.
Yeah, actually having a copy of a movie is so old-fashioned- I prefer to let the studios keep them for me, and if they ever take them away I don't need to watch them anyways. ;) <--- for the sarcasm impaired


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