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What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

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View Poll Results: What will you do if physical media ceases to exist?
I may actually buy MORE movies than before. Bring on the digital age!
0
0%
My buying habits won't change. I'm adaptable.
5.88%
I will buy movies here and there, but less than before.
34.12%
I will stop buying movies completely. Streaming/VOD will be my new master.
34.12%
I will boycott the industry completely. Fear change!
10.59%
I will turn to a life of crime... it's not stealing if it's a computer file, right?
12.94%
Computers? The Internet? Ain't nobody got time for that!
2.35%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

Old 12-06-13, 08:59 PM
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Re: What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

Originally Posted by Drexl
Regarding the removal of titles after the service loses the rights, that is a big problem (for rentals at least), but I wonder if it could be done like Steam. If a game is pulled from Steam, it's no longer available to purchase, but as long as you bought it beforehand it stays in your library and on their servers, and you can still re-download it any time you want. I haven't bought any virtual movies as of yet; is this common practice for when titles are pulled?
That's how it's done on Vudu. I have a couple titles in my Vudu Library that are no longer available on the service. Urban Legend, Flags Of Our Fathers and Prep & Landing are some that come to mind. They disappear from the website and aren't even available in search results. The only place to locate them is under My Vudu.

I've also spoken with two Vudu CS reps and they confirmed that it's company policy. When they remove a title from their service, it will remain on their servers for customers that have previously purchased the title.
Old 12-06-13, 09:17 PM
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Re: What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

I've also spoken with two Vudu CS reps and they confirmed that it's company policy. When they remove a title from their service, it will remain on their servers for customers that have previously purchased the title.
Except for all the adult titles, and I'm sure there'll come a time when something has to be taken off for legal reasons.
Old 12-06-13, 09:37 PM
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Re: What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

Originally Posted by Alan Smithee
Except for all the adult titles, and I'm sure there'll come a time when something has to be taken off for legal reasons.
I wasn't using Vudu back then, so I'm not that familiar with what happened. But it's my understanding that customers were refunded:

Update: A Walmart spokesperson further confirms the news:"I can confirm that we no longer offer that content and that customers who previously purchased movies with adult content will receive a full refund."

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...tent-agreement
It seems like a unique situation. They didn't lose the rights to those movies, and could have kept them on the servers if they wanted. They decided they didn't want to be in the porn business anymore.

I can't imagine a similar situation occurring again. And outside of the porn, I don't recall any incident where a title has been completely removed from the service. But if it does happen, at least they're willing to give previous customers a full refund.

Last edited by TheBigDave; 12-06-13 at 10:18 PM.
Old 12-06-13, 10:22 PM
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Re: What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

Well, if someone broke in and took my discs but left me money for them, I'd still be mad. I've heard of people losing books on their "Kindle" devices when Amazon lost the rights to carry them, and lots of movies go out of print when their rights change hands. Never underestimate what lawyers can do
Old 12-06-13, 11:27 PM
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Re: What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

Originally Posted by Alan Smithee
I've heard of people losing books on their "Kindle" devices when Amazon lost the rights to carry them
How often has this happened? There were some incidents about 5 years ago with seedy publishers offering bootleg copies on Kindle. But I haven't heard of it happening since then. And not involving e-books from legitimate publishers. But maybe I'm wrong. I don't pay too much attention to Kindle stuff.

Outside of a couple unique incidents (Vudu dropping porn and Kindle removing illegal copies), there don't seem to be any good examples of a company losing the rights and totally pulling a title. I have a feeling they've already worked this out. If customers were losing access to titles they've purchased, it would destroy the business.

Personally, I'm more worried about Wal-Mart shutting down Vudu some day. It's only a small part of a huge company. They could decide it's not generating enough profits and walk away. UV movies will still be available on other services (which all suck). But the non-UV movies will be lost. And I doubt Wal-Mart will refund customers if they close the service.
Old 12-07-13, 03:36 PM
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Re: What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

Originally Posted by TheBigDave
What device were you using?

I've had this same problem happen with the PS3. Repeated buffering problems. Check the speed tests and my connection is 15-20Mbps. Turned off the PS3 and switched to the Roku. Finished the movie with no problems. It doesn't happen all the time. Just once in a while. And I've had a similar experience with Netflix on the PS3. I think the problem's with PSN.
Do you have an early model of the PS3? It's a well-known problem that Sony used a very cheap Wi-fi chipset on their first few PS3 models; many people have problems with streaming to it. The only solution is buy a new PS3 with better chip or move to an ethernet cable.
Originally Posted by TheBigDave
Personally, I'm more worried about Wal-Mart shutting down Vudu some day. It's only a small part of a huge company. They could decide it's not generating enough profits and walk away. UV movies will still be available on other services (which all suck). But the non-UV movies will be lost. And I doubt Wal-Mart will refund customers if they close the service.
I also worry about VUDU's future. Walmart pulled the plug on their MP3 service when it didn't become popular and people lost access to whatever they had bought on that service.

I have over 300 movies on VUDU. It would be a huge loss for the UV community if VUDU ever folded shop.
Old 12-07-13, 04:55 PM
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Re: What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

Vudu seems almost too big to fail right now, as it's on almost EVERY TV and Blu-Ray player out now. I wouldn't have bothered with it if I had to buy a separate box for it, but since it's built into my stuff I use it for rentals (usually just the daily 99-cent specials) and nab all the free stuff on it. Wondering how much use it actually gets though, as my tech-savvy friend doesn't even have an account set up even though it's on 2 of his devices, and many of the rentals are overpriced especially for the older movies. It certainly has its place, but isn't a suitable replacement for collecting media entirely. Seems like if Wal-Mart ever dumped it, someone else would pick it up though, and of course that would be a good thing. Wonder if Vudu's staff gets treated the same way as Wal-Mart's store workers?
Old 12-07-13, 06:32 PM
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Yeah, because of Wal-Mart, I tend to go out of my way not buy from Vudu if I can help it. It's nice to be able to redeem stuff in 1080p when I buy discs, but I haven't bought much from then outside of their HDX True Lies. I'd rather not support Wal-Mart if I can help it, to be honest.
Old 12-07-13, 10:03 PM
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Re: What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger
Do you have an early model of the PS3? It's a well-known problem that Sony used a very cheap Wi-fi chipset on their first few PS3 models; many people have problems with streaming to it. The only solution is buy a new PS3 with better chip or move to an ethernet cable.
I have one of the old, fat 60GB models with a wired connection. I've tried running tests to isolate the problem. Best as I can tell, it's problems with PSN. It's not a big deal. I've got 5-6 other streaming devices. I do almost all my streaming on the Roku, which doesn't give me any problems.

I have over 300 movies on VUDU. It would be a huge loss for the UV community if VUDU ever folded shop.
It would probably destroy the UV community if Vudu shut down. The other UV-compatible services are crap. I've got a little over 1600 movies on Vudu. And it's the only UV service I can use. The others all choke on large collections (around 1000 titles). Some of them take 10-20 minutes to load my collection.

Last edited by TheBigDave; 12-07-13 at 10:13 PM.
Old 12-08-13, 01:24 AM
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Re: What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

I only bring up the possibility of VUDU's possible demise because a recent media study came out about digital copy habits. People currently love redeeming the free digital copies they get from buying DVDs and BDs, but the pure digital purchasing rate on streaming services is terrible. It tells me that digital providers are vastly overpricing their offerings.
Old 12-08-13, 01:34 AM
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Re: What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger
It tells me that digital providers are vastly overpricing their offerings.
In every possible way. It's often cheaper to purchase hard copies of media which sounds ridiculous. I may just be cheap with entertainment yet five dollar digital rentals is about what I would pay for a physical copy of a movie on blu-ray (either a newer movie used or new after's it's been out awhile)

I imagine so many people think, why bother with this compressed digital file when I can get four times as much plus extras and higher quality for slightly more (new release) or even at the same price.

I wonder if they will ever fix this.
Old 12-08-13, 10:47 AM
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Re: What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

Originally Posted by TheBigDave
What device were you using?

I've had this same problem happen with the PS3. Repeated buffering problems. Check the speed tests and my connection is 15-20Mbps. Turned off the PS3 and switched to the Roku. Finished the movie with no problems. It doesn't happen all the time. Just once in a while. And I've had a similar experience with Netflix on the PS3. I think the problem's with PSN.

But I agree with the point you're making. Streaming is always going to rely on the strength and reliability of your internet connection. Problems with the internet, and you lose access to your entire movie collection.
Also the PS3 (slim). Only other device I could use in my HT would be my newly acquired PS4 but if PSN is the problem that probably wouldn't help.
Old 12-09-13, 02:08 PM
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Re: What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

I voted for I will buy less than before.. I'll just have to watch what I have on hand. I'm not saying that I would never turn to streaming. But I don't do it now. I don't know what I will do when/ if this media goes away.
But this is why I buy disc's in the first place- to have them 10, 20, 30 years down the road. When I buy DVD's/ Bluray's. I don't just buy them for the present time- I plan to have them and use them for years to come.
Old 12-09-13, 05:40 PM
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Re: What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

Originally Posted by Xiroteus
I imagine so many people think, why bother with this compressed digital file when I can get four times as much plus extras and higher quality for slightly more (new release) or even at the same price.

I wonder if they will ever fix this.
This is my thought process as well.

Blu-ray usually has encodes of 20-40 Mbps in regards to video, in addition to uncompressed audio options (PCM, Dolby Digital TrueHD, DTS-HD MA, etc). Vudu has encodes of 10 Mbps in regards to video and no offerings for lossless audio. Granted, this could change when H.265/H.NGVC is introduced.

It also helps that Blu-rays, when on sale, are far cheaper than digital copies are on sale through Vudu, iTunes, etc.

In regards to streaming with the PS3: it's not an issue with the PSN, it's an issue with the shitty networking built-in to the PS3.
Old 12-10-13, 04:56 AM
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Re: What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel
This is my thought process as well.

Blu-ray usually has encodes of 20-40 Mbps in regards to video, in addition to uncompressed audio options (PCM, Dolby Digital TrueHD, DTS-HD MA, etc). Vudu has encodes of 10 Mbps in regards to video and no offerings for lossless audio. Granted, this could change when H.265/H.NGVC is introduced.

It also helps that Blu-rays, when on sale, are far cheaper than digital copies are on sale through Vudu, iTunes, etc.

In regards to streaming with the PS3: it's not an issue with the PSN, it's an issue with the shitty networking built-in to the PS3.
Even though many people are calling disk based media obsolete (not something I believe) just because of the format and ease of use. It's only superior in terms of picture, sound, extras etc.... Makes me wonder about 4K, the idea of 4K mostly being digital would seem to lose a lot of the point of 4K which would also be superior on a disk based format. I know there are millions of people that really don't care, they will watch whatever works regardless of quality.
Old 12-10-13, 10:14 AM
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Re: What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

Looks like I should try my PS4 for Vudu next time and see if it makes a difference.

I've read more movies are getting DD+ 7.1 on Vudu, and I am sure we are headed towards the same arguments that were had in 2006-2008 on whether DD+ is "good enough" and transparent. It may very well be on most gear. I still want lossless. I want the best quality available, and streaming doesn't look to be able to match that for quite some time. And if and when it does, you still have the bandwidth concerns with your ISP.
Old 12-10-13, 01:23 PM
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Re: What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

Originally Posted by bunkaroo
I've read more movies are getting DD+ 7.1 on Vudu, and I am sure we are headed towards the same arguments that were had in 2006-2008 on whether DD+ is "good enough" and transparent. It may very well be on most gear. I still want lossless. I want the best quality available, and streaming doesn't look to be able to match that for quite some time. And if and when it does, you still have the bandwidth concerns with your ISP.
Keep in mind that there are two forms of Dolby Digital Plus. The 1.5 Mb/s version that was used on HD DVD was claimed to be close to transparent to the master, but the 640 kb/s version used on streaming services and (rarely) on Blu-ray is hardly any audibly different than standard Dolby Digital.
Old 12-10-13, 02:13 PM
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Re: What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

Originally Posted by Josh Z
Keep in mind that there are two forms of Dolby Digital Plus. The 1.5 Mb/s version that was used on HD DVD was claimed to be close to transparent to the master, but the 640 kb/s version used on streaming services and (rarely) on Blu-ray is hardly any audibly different than standard Dolby Digital.
Thanks for the info - did not know that. Not a surprise though.
Old 12-10-13, 06:13 PM
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Re: What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

The 1.5 Mb/s version that was used on HD DVD was claimed to be close to transparent to the master, but the 640 kb/s version used on streaming services and (rarely) on Blu-ray is hardly any audibly different than standard Dolby Digital.
Interesting- the biggest problem Dolby Digital Plus causes on streaming services for me is that my TV screws it up when down-rezzing it to standard Dolby Digital through its optical output, which I have to use since my receiver doesn't have ARC. High-pitched sounds have a 'chirping' effect to them (such as the Universal intro). Stuff that's in regular Dolby Digital sounds fine. They should only use Dolby Digital Plus when they need it to have 7.1 channels.
Old 12-20-13, 09:29 PM
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Re: What will you do if physical media goes away completely?

Kind of a mixed bag for me. In general I buy most of my music off itunes - and immediately upload to my ipod - don't even listen to the radio in my car at all. Audio books, etc for long trips.

I still buy a number of CDs though - mostly imports from yesasia.com or UK/foreign releases I can't get from amazon (US). And now I'm starting to see more music special edition releases (I like CD/DVD combos) - whether imports or something like the Coheed and Cambria box sets for the last few albums (packaged with hard cover novels / art books/etc).

For games....digital is a last resort on my xbox (could not find Mass Effect locally at all last year - once I finish the 3rd one, I'll erase them all for space reasons). And only if I can play offline (worst case scenario)...right before deployment I downloaded some games to my computer from Steam...got halfway through the deployment (and 1/2 way round the world) before I tried to play...and found out that they were unplayable because I wasn't connected to Steam...Apparently didn't check some box for downloading extra files or something.

Movies though...as long as Itunes wants to charge the same amount for a digital movie (or more in some cases) than I can buy it for as a BD at Best Buy or amazon - no f'ing way. Sure if a digital copy comes with my dvd/BR, I'll download it and put it on my ipod - nice little extra feature for a long bus ride or something - although I may need to upgrade soon since I can't watch HD versions on my current Ipod classic

Also don't like the "digital rental" concepts floating around. Thinking about "buying" the "Li'l Abner" digital version off amazon (and potentially a couple other OOP films) since the DVD is OOP - but not sure what format it'd show up in on my computer (any opinions?). Paying for digital rental seems like even more of a bad joke - a la DIVX - per movie or episode.

I like my collection - special editions, nice cases, nice organization, etc - for the same reason I like my book library. Between ownership, aesthetics and a tactile presence - as well as avoiding streaming issues, digital ownership, etc.

It might be another case if there were layers of redundant backups - I could get a nice sort of master media HD for the house - and then have large screen movie poster images while sorting/surfing through the collection and choosing something to view....maybe in a couple of years.

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