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"advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

Old 10-28-13, 11:30 AM
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"advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

in a first for us US fans, there have been a number of discs released in Hong Kong with Dolby's new up sampling. Here in the US, it's been rather downplayed or rarely implemented, a couple of discs have had it: 'Leon the Professional' and 'Neil Young Journeys' but it's great to see another studio other than Sony, Warner in this case, use it on one of their bluray catalog releases:

The Right Stuff

(extract from The Digital Bits review of the disc):

"Audio-wise, Warner has matched these visuals with a 5.1 Dolby TrueHD soundtrack newly-encoded with 96k upsampling. From Dolby’s white paper, this technology upsamples 48 kHz PCM content to 96 kHz to obtain “optimum performance from downstream connected A/V receivers equipped with 96 kHz digital-to-analog converters, enabling them to operate at their maximum efficiencies. Content created with Dolby’s advanced 96k upsampling feature is fully playback compatible on all Blu-ray devices.” (Just in case you were wondering, as were we.) While this film’s soundtrack isn’t quite dynamic by modern standards, it was state of the art in its day and – 96k upsampling or no – it’s never sounded better than it does here."

Old 10-28-13, 12:32 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

I think it's largely a gimmick. Even modern soundtracks are only recorded at 24-bit/48kHz fidelity. The benefits will be fairly minor, if that.
Old 10-28-13, 12:36 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

AC/DC's live in Argentina Blu-ray and their Live in Spain discs also had 96kHz. Baraka may have also had it. Akira had it even higher, I believe.
Old 10-28-13, 12:46 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

I'm curious to see/hear future releases (especially new movies) with this. The audio blu ray of The Social Network soundtrack is awesome.
Old 10-28-13, 01:30 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

Originally Posted by Why So Blu?
AC/DC's live in Argentina Blu-ray and their Live in Spain discs also had 96kHz. Baraka may have also had it. Akira had it even higher, I believe.
'Samsara' is also 96kHz

'Akira' and 'Gamera the Brave' have 192kHz audio

the isolated M83 score on 'Oblivion' is 96kHz.

Originally Posted by trespoochies
I'm curious to see/hear future releases (especially new movies) with this. The audio blu ray of The Social Network soundtrack is awesome.
AFIK most DCI audio processors can playback at 96kHz, but as PhantomStranger pointed out the movie industry audio mixers are still stuck in a 48kHz world - why? I have no idea.

Last edited by Giles; 10-28-13 at 01:37 PM.
Old 10-28-13, 01:40 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

Baraka and Samsara were originally recorded and mixed at the 96 kHz sampling rate. That's different than what's being discussed here, which is Dolby's 96k upsampling of content originally created at 48 kHz. More about this here.

Some music and concert discs have already been released in the U.S. with this 96k upsampling, but this is the first Hollywood feature film to get the treatment. (As mentioned by others, some Asian movies released overseas have had it as well.)

I got a demo of this upsampling at Dolby headquarters last year. The difference is extremely subtle - so subtle that I wouldn't necessarily call it "better" than the original, just different.
Old 10-28-13, 04:24 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

^ yes it seems to be the trend that 'music' can and will be recording/encoded at 96 and higher.

However in the case of a feature length movie, all the elements, vocals, music and foley would have to be initially recorded as such. In terms of the latter, all foley which is generally culled from a library or differing sources are always archived at only 48kHz (that's my assumption and understanding).
Old 10-28-13, 04:39 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

Originally Posted by Josh Z
Baraka and Samsara were originally recorded and mixed at the 96 kHz sampling rate. That's different than what's being discussed here, which is Dolby's 96k upsampling of content originally created at 48 kHz. More about this here.

Some music and concert discs have already been released in the U.S. with this 96k upsampling, but this is the first Hollywood feature film to get the treatment. (As mentioned by others, some Asian movies released overseas have had it as well.)

I got a demo of this upsampling at Dolby headquarters last year. The difference is extremely subtle - so subtle that I wouldn't necessarily call it "better" than the original, just different.
I remember your article on the subject. I was frankly unsurprised by your experience. This is mostly just a gimmick.
Old 10-28-13, 04:51 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

I'm sure Rocshemp could whip out his audio penis to go into further detail into the quirks of all this.

Edit: nvm. He's already into it.
Old 10-28-13, 05:45 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

Originally Posted by Solid Snake
I'm sure Rocshemp could whip out his audio penis to go into further detail into the quirks of all this.

Edit: nvm. He's already into it.


Seriously, are you on medication? If no, why not?
Old 10-28-13, 05:59 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

Probably because that damn healthcare website doesn't work so well.
Old 10-28-13, 11:08 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

I for one would like to hear this audio penis.
Old 10-29-13, 03:41 AM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

96k and 192k are a needless gimmick and add monstrously to the overhead required for the audio data, and thereby reduce the average video bitrate by up to 50%. The audio on AKIRA took over half the space dedicated to the film. To my ears, there was absolutely no benefit, and a reduced video quality as a result.
Old 10-29-13, 07:59 AM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

Originally Posted by zyzzle
96k and 192k are a needless gimmick and add monstrously to the overhead required for the audio data, and thereby reduce the average video bitrate by up to 50%. The audio on AKIRA took over half the space dedicated to the film. To my ears, there was absolutely no benefit, and a reduced video quality as a result.
If the 48 kHz audio was upsampled to 96 kHz or 192 kHz, I'd agree with you. However, material originally recorded at (or high quality analog recordings converted to) 96 kHz or 192 kHz would indeed sound better than their 48kHz counterparts. Of course, the benefits would depend on the equipment chain and the room used. And most would be hard pressed to notice much of difference beyond an A/B presentation.

But with upsampling, it's the same effect as upscaling video. You can't squeeze out detail that isn't there. You just make it "easier" on the available equipment to resolve whatever was already in the original recording. It's a gross oversimplification but therein lies the difference.

I am curious to know if we'll ever hear a tech demo recording done at 1536 kHz, which HDMI 2.0 allows. That should be interesting, even if we're already well into the point of diminishing returns.

Last edited by RocShemp; 10-29-13 at 09:42 AM.
Old 10-29-13, 12:11 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

Originally Posted by RocShemp
But with upsampling, it's the same effect as upscaling video. You can't squeeze out detail that isn't there. You just make it "easier" on the available equipment to resolve whatever was already in the original recording. It's a gross oversimplification but therein lies the difference.
Dolby's argument for the upsampling is that it allows their Meridian apodising filter to remove the pre-ringing artifact introduced when analog sounds are digitized. Therefore, with that artifact removed, the upsampled version can be (they claim) better than the original.

Of course, the average noise floor in almost any home theater room will be way more audible than this pre-ringing. Unless you're listening in an anechoic chamber with all your equipment isolated in another room - and don't breathe - the benefit of removing the pre-ringing is extremely minimal.
Old 10-29-13, 12:23 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

Originally Posted by Josh Z
Dolby's argument for the upsampling is that it allows their Meridian apodising filter to remove the pre-ringing artifact introduced when analog sounds are digitized. Therefore, with that artifact removed, the upsampled version can be (they claim) better than the original.

Of course, the average noise floor in almost any home theater room will be way more audible than this pre-ringing. Unless you're listening in an anechoic chamber with all your equipment isolated in another room - and don't breathe - the benefit of removing the pre-ringing is extremely minimal.
Yeah, I remember that from your article. That was the only part that sounded intriguing until you pointed out the noise floor issue and I promptly lost interest in the supposed benefit.

By the way, is it frowned upon if I were to post a link to your article in this thread? I think others here would find it interesting reading.
Old 10-29-13, 03:48 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

Originally Posted by RocShemp
By the way, is it frowned upon if I were to post a link to your article in this thread? I think others here would find it interesting reading.
I linked to it in Post #6.
Old 10-29-13, 05:23 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

Originally Posted by Josh Z
I linked to it in Post #6.
I didn't even notice.
Old 10-29-13, 08:05 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

It's that audio penis of yours. It's too distracting.
Old 10-30-13, 01:03 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

Originally Posted by trespoochies
It's that audio penis of yours. It's too distracting.
My bad. I'll wear pants next time.
Old 11-16-13, 03:51 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

so suffice to say, after all the fanfare AND the fact that some discs had the 96 Advanced Sampling sticker on the plastic cover - this disc doesn't have the uprezzed audio.
Old 11-16-13, 05:55 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

Originally Posted by Giles
so suffice to say, after all the fanfare AND the fact that some discs had the 96 Advanced Sampling sticker on the plastic cover - this disc doesn't have the uprezzed audio.
It does have upsampled audio. But much like upscaled video the rule of thumb is "crap in, crap out". So don't expect anything magically better.
Old 11-16-13, 10:16 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

Originally Posted by RocShemp
It does have upsampled audio. But much like upscaled video the rule of thumb is "crap in, crap out". So don't expect anything magically better.

really? of the couple reviews I've seen - the reviewer doesn't denote this - DVDBeaver, blu-ray.com.
Old 11-18-13, 01:25 PM
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Re: "advanced 96kHz audio upsampling" arrives in US on 'The Right Stuff'

Originally Posted by RocShemp
It does have upsampled audio. But much like upscaled video the rule of thumb is "crap in, crap out".
Actually, it doesn't. Somebody at Warner screwed up and forgot to enable the upsampling when authoring the disc. The studio has admitted this and is working on a correction now. Hopefully, some sort of exchange program will be offered for those who bought the initial copies.

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