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MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

Old 04-06-12, 11:52 PM
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MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

I just bought This is Spinal Tap on Blu-ray and noticed a paper leaflet ad for the MGM-HD cable channel touting they offer 200 new HD movies every month.

No ads for upcoming Blu-ray discs? Are we seeing the studios shift more of their marketing dollars to on-demand/cable and less toward Blu-ray?
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Old 04-07-12, 01:02 AM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

Probably just cross-promotion. A lot of my Universal discs have inserts advertising NBC shows, most of which have already been cancelled. Maybe if NBC and the other networks were watchable, I wouldn't need to buy so many discs! (I've heard MGM-HD is bug-infested too.)
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Old 04-07-12, 03:14 PM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

It is infested but not as bad as other channels. they also have some commercials although the movies are shown unedited.
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Old 04-07-12, 03:17 PM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

There's definitely going to be a strong push this year to streaming services. I hope the demise of Blu-rays will come later as opposed to sooner but we'll see.
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Old 04-07-12, 05:32 PM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt View Post
There's definitely going to be a strong push this year to streaming services. I hope the demise of Blu-rays will come later as opposed to sooner but we'll see.
The demise of physical isn't going to happen anytime soon so long as the large percentage of non-high speed internet users exist as well as low caps for internet usage.

People like to buy things. Libraries and books haven't gone away even though people were touting the demise of these things a decade ago as it would all be digital.
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Old 04-07-12, 07:17 PM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

Print publishing is on the decline. People will still read books and they will watch movies but how they do those things will be different within the next decade.

Also, IMO, Blu-ray is not for the "large percentage of non-high speed internet users". It is for the tech geeks, the ones that always need the next best thing or those that simply just love movies and have enough disposable income to afford it.
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Old 04-07-12, 07:53 PM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

I was going under the assumption that DVD is going to die off before Blu-ray. Just as grandma and grandpa stuck with their VHS collection because they didn't want to buy it again, you'll still have holdouts like that as the world of technology passes them by.

I was looking at things generalized. Books have been in decline for some time but they aren't anywhere close to disappearing. We can thank the higher prices of digital media as one of the things to thank. I went to a college that had a "library of the future". There were only a few books and everything else was digital. If you wanted to read something from there, you had to either hop on a computer and read it there or pay the cost to print it all out. That was over a decade ago and we're nowhere close to being at a point where people aren't buying physical books in quantities that would force companies to go strictly digital.

People still want physical media and businesses aren't going to shut down factories and put people out of work to ignore a revenue stream.

As with digital media now, companies aren't always going to keep things available. You can buy movies from places like cinemanow.com, from which I own some. 25% of those that I bought last year aren't available anymore. Yahoo used to have a music store. At first, when they announced they were shutting down, they said everyone would lose all their purchases. Digital copies have expiration dates because they want the option to stop supporting what you've paid for. They aren't going to keep things around that aren't making it worth their while. They aren't here to support the consumer, they're here to get the consumer's money.

Have the internet go out or you're moving and the service hasn't been setup yet? Sucks to be a digital media only person. The rest of use can pull out our junk and play with it.

Some places have internet caps in the hundreds of MB. They wouldn't be able to watch one movie without eating up their entire bandwidth for a month, assuming what they wanted to watch was compressed really, really small. These places, major ISPs mind you, always seem to be forgotten whenever I hear that everything's going to be streaming only, in the future and that future is always described as sometime soon.

All of this reminds me of when I was a kid and everyone was saying we'd have flying cars and jet packs.

Another stopping point for going digital is going to be the major studios. What happened with Netflix is an example of them thinking that a scatter approach is going to work. Netflix had the option of paying extra high prices for streaming because if Netflix was dumb enough to bankrupt themselves at high prices, that's fine for the studios. Instead the studios know that Netflix won't pay so they each decide to go their own separate ways and each come up with their own distribution system, which we're already seeing now. So if you want films from one studio, you have to pay for an account at one place. Want films from another studio? Pay for a different membership over here.

I'll just stop here because I don't want to write a 15 page essay filled with sources. That and I'm drunk and am going to go watch some killing movies for this month's challenge.
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Old 04-07-12, 09:54 PM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

The problem with purchasing digital media (i.e. cloud-based services) is that, at any possible moment, the studio could remove the title off of it leaving the customer fucked. Unless you have a plethora of storage at your disposal, storing films digitally will take up a lot of space very fast. Then you also have to worry about having a back up of that storage too. For most consumers, those costs will add up quick and will turn them away.

The sad aspect is that DVD and Blu-rays still also cost cheaper than what one would pay for a digital copy for; SD or HD.

There's also a vast difference between what companies like iTunes and Vudu offer at 1080p and what a Blu-ray can provide in 1080p. The few 1080p films I have on iTunes look good and they're a vast improvement of what a DVD could ever provide. However, they're nowhere near the quality a Blu-ray provides and that's why I continue to purchase Blu-ray for numerous reasons.

I feel Blu-ray is finally getting off the ground with customers nearly six years after its launch (whereas it took DVD significantly less time), but DVD is finally on its way out. I could still see DVDs being supported for the next five-to-ten years, but I don't see it for much longer after that.

While Blu-ray might be the last physical media, the problem becomes what digital solution becomes the forefront? As it stands, I haven't seen anything that could be truly accepted by the masses.
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Old 04-08-12, 02:38 AM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

Great thoughts. I just think there are ways we want it to be and then there is the likely reality. I love Blu-rays, I want them to succeed but where are the catalogs? Why are studios outsourcing movies to third parties?

As for digital distribution, with movies on servers and the fact that they could be pulled by studios or if internet goes down... Well tough shit. I just think that will be the attitude of the studios and the reason will be because people, in general, won't care. There's a big assumption being made that people want physical media, I don't think that's true for the most part. The days of owning big movie collections are on the decline.

Maybe I'm just more pessimistic than others. We'll see.
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Old 04-08-12, 11:46 AM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

I think both are going to exist and it'll mostly be a personal preference on what people get. Having servers up and going are fine for studios with cash but the smaller guys, Troma, Mill Creek, Code Red, wouldn't be able to do it as well, if at all.

The only digital stuff I own are free things because once I've taken the ability to keep something out of my control and into some business that doesn't have my interests at heart, I consider it a bonus if I'm able to access it when I want.

A bad analogy would be that it's like cars. You still have older cars around without the high tech gadgets and computers inside but people still have an interest in the older stuff and they aren't going anywhere, even if technology has passed them by.
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Old 04-08-12, 11:54 AM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

Originally Posted by grundle too View Post
Great thoughts. I just think there are ways we want it to be and then there is the likely reality. I love Blu-rays, I want them to succeed but where are the catalogs? Why are studios outsourcing movies to third parties?
Because they don't sell.

Well, they do actually...to a nerd like myself who reads DVD/BD forums, but I am not the general public. The general public will buy things like Pixar movies and new-to-home video releases on BD, because they look nice and shiny and "HD-like." They aren't interested in something like Casablanca or some other 1930's or 1940's (or even 1960's) movie on BD because "it's an old movie and it wasn't shot in HD" or "the Blu-ray just brings out the flaws more; DVD is better for these old movies" (actual responses I get when debating these things).

EDIT: This has been debated ad infinitum in another thread and is really OT here, but following is possibly the most succinct summary of the state of BD catalog I have read. I quote filmmaker and film soundtrack entrepreneur Bruce Kimmel from the Home Theater Forum. Emphasis mine:

"...what the brief history of Blu-ray has shown us is that with very few exceptions catalog titles don't sell well. I've seen the sales figures and they're occasionally shocking with some titles not even breaking a thousand - and I'm talking about the stuff that gets to Target, Walmart, etc. What happens with each and every one of those titles is that people balk at the original price (let's say it's $15) and proudly boast that they'll wait until it's ten. When it's ten they come on these boards and proudly boast that they'll wait till it hits the five-dollar bin. And even then, when the studios would rather let them be loss leaders than get back thousands of copies they'd then have to store, some people still don't purchase it. And you wonder why things are the way they are? The studios have had it - it's clear they want no part of it, because the loss leaders and returns make it not appetizing to do it. Who can blame them?"

I love my cheap BDs as much as anybody, but I'll gladly pay more--even much more--for a quality release. Some are firm that they will not. But frankly, at this stage of the game, I doubt price really matters all that much. The general mindset is, "Old movie, DVD is good enough." So people don't buy.

Last edited by Superdaddy; 04-08-12 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 04-08-12, 01:17 PM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

Getting off-topic from the original post here, but again I have to ask how many copies of catalog titles would studios LIKE to sell, and how did catalog titles on DVD sell during the format's 'boom'? I can't afford to buy everything I want the week it comes out, but that doesn't mean I won't be buying it eventually. Dropping the prices later is a double-edged sword- on one hand it gets people to buy titles they wouldn't have bought at a higher price, but it annoys those who did buy it when it came out at a higher price. How many times have you seen someone say "I paid $30 for that when it came out, wish I'd waited til now to get it for $10!"

Another thing about why catalog titles might not be selling- too often studios MESS THEM UP! I've read tons of complaints about Universal overusing noise reduction and edge-enhancement on their Blu-Rays for example. I have EVERY HD-DVD title put out by Warner (except Twister, and I bought them all on clearance) and many of the older movies have the opening Warner Bros. logos replaced with the current one- that may seem a bit nit-picky, but for me that's reason enough to NOT buy a title! I've regularly avoided United Artists movies since they've always replaced the openings on those with whatever the current one is- they've been doing that since the 80s. Another annoyance is when they re-mix the sound for 5.1 when it was originally released in mono or matrix stereo, and they don't include that original sound mix.

"West Side Story" is a perfect example of what I'm talking about, as some carelessness resulted in the opening of that getting messed up. Same with "My Fair Lady" which had a notoriously awful transfer (I haven't seen it, but heard enough bad word-of-mouth about it to stay away from it.) When they show that much lack of quality control, of course people aren't going to buy your product, but that doesn't mean that nobody wants these "old" movies! (Then of course there's Star Wars, which was messed-up intentionally, though I've read Fox was happy with the sales of that.)

If I buy any movie, but especially an older one that I may already have on several formats, I want the ORIGINAL version of it, the way it was shown in theaters when new. That means no edits or revisions (including the studio logos) and NO digital 'clean-up' that ruins how the movie was supposed to look!
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Old 04-08-12, 01:33 PM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

Good points, Alan. I certainly have avoided some titles with notorious transfers.

I wonder how that plays with the average BD buyer. Do they know about noise reduction and EE? Do they agree on what constitutes a screwed-up transfer?

I should try showing heavily DNRed or edge enhanced transfers to some of those people, alongside a less tampered version of the same film, and see which they prefer. (I fear their responses).
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Old 04-08-12, 01:49 PM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
I just bought This is Spinal Tap on Blu-ray and noticed a paper leaflet ad for the MGM-HD cable channel touting they offer 200 new HD movies every month.

No ads for upcoming Blu-ray discs? Are we seeing the studios shift more of their marketing dollars to on-demand/cable and less toward Blu-ray?
Will you be able to scan the leaflet ans post it here?
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Old 04-08-12, 01:58 PM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

Oh- and seeing that we're talking about Spinal Tap, does the Blu-Ray have the original burned-in text that appears during the movie (like the Criterion DVD has), or does it replace those with player-generated text like the MGM DVD did? That's another nit-picky thing that has stopped me from buying some titles.
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Old 04-08-12, 03:18 PM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

One important factor with physical media is the "control premium" i.e. non-reliance on intermediaries, and is something many overlook.

All one needs is the hardware and a power source with physical media, as opposed to dealing with the content provider (e.g. Netflix) and the ISP (e.g. Time Warner) and if one of those takes a crap, you are screwed. In addition to dealing with logins, server downtime, security issues, and all that crap.
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Old 04-08-12, 09:47 PM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

Originally Posted by Superdaddy View Post
I love my cheap BDs as much as anybody, but I'll gladly pay more--even much more--for a quality release. Some are firm that they will not. But frankly, at this stage of the game, I doubt price really matters all that much. The general mindset is, "Old movie, DVD is good enough." So people don't buy.
With the rise of the internet there is so much content out there now, much of it free and yet there is still only 24 hours in a day. With 300 channels on TV, youTube videos, checking facebook, emails, texting people etc. people just don't have the time for all of this. There is too much competition for our spare time.

I think DVD's, CDs and Blu-ray have been devalued largely due to this. That and internet has conditioned everyone to getting free content. There is much less motivation to pay.

Another factor is for people who have a Blu-ray player is where do you find content for it other than purchasing? Where I live, there are literally no more video stores. The only places to get discs are at the library and the Safeway store kiosk. Neither of which carry Blu-ray, just DVD.

In general, I think people are tired of getting stung by the rapid advancement of technology. The 2.3MP camera you bought for $800 in 2002 was garbage by 2005. Lots of people have, or had, a 500+ DVD collection they sunk $10,000 into and they watched each movie once.

People are tired of seeing their money get pissed away. Sure, the technology ride was fun for a while, but for many they are starting to prioritize what technologies are really important to them, especially in these difficult economic times.

Sure, I could've bought a Blu-ray in 2007 for $500 but I waited three years and picked one up for $79. It didn't kill me & I didn't feel deprived from having to wait three years.
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Old 04-08-12, 10:15 PM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
Sure, I could've bought a Blu-ray in 2007 for $500 but I waited three years and picked one up for $79. It didn't kill me & I didn't feel deprived from having to wait three years.
Blu-ray PLAYER.
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Old 04-08-12, 10:51 PM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
In general, I think people are tired of getting stung by the rapid advancement of technology. The 2.3MP camera you bought for $800 in 2002 was garbage by 2005. Lots of people have, or had, a 500+ DVD collection they sunk $10,000 into and they watched each movie once.

People are tired of seeing their money get pissed away. Sure, the technology ride was fun for a while, but for many they are starting to prioritize what technologies are really important to them, especially in these difficult economic times.

Sure, I could've bought a Blu-ray in 2007 for $500 but I waited three years and picked one up for $79. It didn't kill me & I didn't feel deprived from having to wait three years.
Technology is always going to get:
  1. Better.
  2. Faster.
  3. Smaller.
  4. Cheaper.
That's just the nature of the beast. How technology exists today, it'll advance even faster compared to ten years ago.

In 1999, with the money I saved up as a teenager, I purchased a Proscan PS8680Z DVD player on sale at Circuit City for $249. It was on clearance at the time as it was one of those rare DVD players capable of playing everyone's favorite video format, DivX. If I would've waited a few years, I could've picked up a DVD player with similar capabilities for $100. Do I regret not waiting a few years and buying it cheaper? Not at all.

If the past decade has taught me anything, I've come to the realizations that the two questions I will ask myself when purchasing anything, especially anything technology and physical media based, will be:
  1. Will I be happy with this purchase for the next few years if something better comes out?
  2. If I wait, will it still be available and if for cheaper?
It pays to be an educated customer. Most customers don't know how to use the products they already own and with technology advancing at lightening speeds, they'll continue to be more confused and/or ignorant about what they're purchasing. Streaming media is a great idea in theory, but its too confusing for your average customer as there's no default, standard format.

DVD succedeed because it offered benefits and advantages over VHS. Blu-ray will succeed over DVD, as again, it offers benefits and advantages over DVD. Streaming, at this point in time, can't compete as there's no set format or guidelines. I feel some companies (porn) will succeed with switching gears to subscription and streaming services, but mainstream media has no grasp on how a regular customer gets it.

Ultraviolet. iTunes. Vudu. Amazon. CinemaNow. There's too much competition that doesn't work with one another. People don't want another format war like HD-DVD and Blu-ray because it slows down progress. You know why it took longer for Blu-ray to take off? Because Joe Sixpack didn't know if HD-DVD or Blu-ray would win the war and they held out. It's simple as that.

Until there's a clearer, simpler way to stream video content (i.e. the studios agree together a la DVD and Blu-ray); streaming media will not take off. I'm sure in terms of a numbers and revenue standpoint, Redbox rents out to more customers than say iTunes or Vudu.

Sure, the technology ride was fun for a while, but for many they are starting to prioritize what technologies are really important to them, especially in these difficult economic times.
Bullshit. Two examples:
  1. Apple sold over 30 million iPad 2s during the course of a year. If we average that out, that's around 2.5 million sold per month, give-or-take. In less than a three days, Apple sold over 3 million third-generation iPads. If I was a betting man, I would bet that Apple sells more of the new iPad than of past-generation models. I love my iPad 2, but I don't need a new iPad just because it has an amazing display.
  2. Look at the automobile industry except for American made cars. While I have been taught by my mom to purchase a car and drive it into the ground, I have friends and family that upgrade their cars every few years. Does the car get you to Point A to Point B? It does? Then why the fuck are you buying a new one?
A lot of Americans are materialistic pieces of shit regardless of how much money they have. Most are not educated customers and will continue to make sacrifices in other areas to outdo their friend, family member, or neighbor. If Americans actually decided to prioritize what purchases are important to them, a plethora of businesses would go under tomorrow.
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Old 04-08-12, 11:13 PM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel View Post
You know why it took longer for Blu-ray to take off? Because Joe Sixpack didn't know if HD-DVD or Blu-ray would win the war and they held out. It's simple as that.
Joe Six Pack doesn't follow technology wars. Joe Six Pack lives in the DVD Talk forum and he says that DVD is good enough for him and he doesn't want to rebuy everything. The jump in quality isn't as much as it was from VHS to DVD and he's fine with an upconverting player, for the ones that even know if their player does that. Why buy high def, he says, when his regular DVD player will do it for him.
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Old 04-09-12, 12:55 AM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

A lot of Americans are materialistic pieces of shit regardless of how much money they have. Most are not educated customers and will continue to make sacrifices in other areas to outdo their friend, family member, or neighbor. If Americans actually decided to prioritize what purchases are important to them, a plethora of businesses would go under tomorrow.
True- and to get back on topic, at least as far as entertainment goes I only spend my money on things I'm going to ENJOY. I don't have cable because so much of it is crap- I won't pay for edited and interrupted movies with channel logos and show promos on the screen so "MGM HD" is worthless to me. Most Blu-Rays are well-done, and usually a MUCH better value than going to a theater, so that's where most of my money goes in that area. "Free" content on the internet (if you don't figure in your internet service fees) is nice, but the technical quality of that is never going to equal a Blu-Ray disc. If I'm SERIOUSLY watching something it's on a disc, something I watch online I consider just "fooling around wasting time." (Broadcast TV is still free of course, but so much of that is crap that it's hardly worth my time, plus I consider HDTV mainly a bust because of all the video compression. True that internet video is more compressed, but at least it's usually something more worth my time.)

Of course the average Joe doesn't care about picture or sound quality, you can just tell him anything is "HD" and he'll think it's good.
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Old 04-09-12, 01:48 AM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
With the rise of the internet there is so much content out there now, much of it free and yet there is still only 24 hours in a day. With 300 channels on TV, youTube videos, checking facebook, emails, texting people etc. people just don't have the time for all of this. There is too much competition for our spare time.

I think DVD's, CDs and Blu-ray have been devalued largely due to this. That and internet has conditioned everyone to getting free content. There is much less motivation to pay.

In general, I think people are tired of getting stung by the rapid advancement of technology. The 2.3MP camera you bought for $800 in 2002 was garbage by 2005. Lots of people have, or had, a 500+ DVD collection they sunk $10,000 into and they watched each movie once.
Those are all excellent points. Content is simply less valuable today to consumers because the culture is drowning in a supply of it. The studios are partially a victim of their own success at selling to the American public.
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Old 04-09-12, 01:50 AM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
True- and to get back on topic, at least as far as entertainment goes I only spend my money on things I'm going to ENJOY. I don't have cable because so much of it is crap- I won't pay for edited and interrupted movies with channel logos and show promos on the screen so "MGM HD" is worthless to me. Most Blu-Rays are well-done, and usually a MUCH better value than going to a theater, so that's where most of my money goes in that area. "Free" content on the internet (if you don't figure in your internet service fees) is nice, but the technical quality of that is never going to equal a Blu-Ray disc. If I'm SERIOUSLY watching something it's on a disc, something I watch online I consider just "fooling around wasting time." (Broadcast TV is still free of course, but so much of that is crap that it's hardly worth my time, plus I consider HDTV mainly a bust because of all the video compression. True that internet video is more compressed, but at least it's usually something more worth my time.)

Of course the average Joe doesn't care about picture or sound quality, you can just tell him anything is "HD" and he'll think it's good.




I agree with you on cable. For the cost of cable, I'm looking at a minimum of $40 for channels I would never watch. For the channels I'd want to watch, I now have to pay a premium as they're apart of a larger bundle. If cable was an a la carte service where I can pick and choose, I would subscribe to cable. Since its not, I'll subscribe to other services like Netflix.
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Old 04-09-12, 06:22 AM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel View Post
I agree with you on cable. For the cost of cable, I'm looking at a minimum of $40 for channels I would never watch. For the channels I'd want to watch, I now have to pay a premium as they're apart of a larger bundle. If cable was an a la carte service where I can pick and choose, I would subscribe to cable. Since its not, I'll subscribe to other services like Netflix.
My HDTV downstairs has never been hooked up to cable either. I don't have time to watch it and don't have interest in a lot of it anyway. It's for BD/DVD watching only, and I have a big collection so I can always find something of interest to watch (usually at night, after the kids are in bed).
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Old 04-09-12, 12:50 PM
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Re: MGM-HD Leaflet in my Blu-ray

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel View Post
Bullshit. Two examples:
  1. Apple sold over 30 million iPad 2s during the course of a year. If we average that out, that's around 2.5 million sold per month, give-or-take. In less than a three days, Apple sold over 3 million third-generation iPads. If I was a betting man, I would bet that Apple sells more of the new iPad than of past-generation models. I love my iPad 2, but I don't need a new iPad just because it has an amazing display.
  2. Look at the automobile industry except for American made cars. While I have been taught by my mom to purchase a car and drive it into the ground, I have friends and family that upgrade their cars every few years. Does the car get you to Point A to Point B? It does? Then why the fuck are you buying a new one?
A lot of Americans are materialistic pieces of shit regardless of how much money they have. Most are not educated customers and will continue to make sacrifices in other areas to outdo their friend, family member, or neighbor. If Americans actually decided to prioritize what purchases are important to them, a plethora of businesses would go under tomorrow.
I don't know if the iPad is a direct comparison. Blu-ray is really a single-purpose unit - it plays HD discs at 1080p. If that alone doesn't appeal to you or if you feel Blu-ray isn't going to be around very long, you'll probably pass on it.

The iPad, on the other hand, has multiple purposes and the cost can be justified because it can be used for business & pleasure.

I think the key word I used was "starting" to prioritize what technologies they need.

"Keeping up with the Jones'" has fueled the American economy for many years but eventually credit runs dry and we've seen the affects of that over the past four years.
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